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Your History

Someone wrote me with an interesting idea for a post – that readers tell about their history with Sovereign Grace Ministries.  The suggestion was that whenever possible, specific church locations and dates would be included, but I realize that in the interest of privacy, some of us won’t want to share that info.  Nonetheless, I do think it’d be highly instructive, especially for SGM pastors and others who might be silently lurking, reading the site for the first time, to get a sense of the scope of the SGM history that is represented by those who comment here.

So – let’s share our stories.

394 comments to Your History

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  1. Unassimilated
    July 28th, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Whirlwind

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/01/21/sovereign-grace-ministries-%E2%80%93-who%E2%80%99s-confused-about-apostolic-ministry/

  2. Stunned
    July 28th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    Blue Sky, I’m with Remnant on that one. Go easy on yourself. Be good to you. It’ll help you to be gracious and good to others and to accept the love and forgiveness of the one who has died (literally) to pour it out on you.

  3. Bridget
    July 28th, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    :new

    Ozymandias and Whirlwind –

    Grace Church SD has changed their polity over the past 18 months :D which might be why the files cannot be downloaded. The change was welcomed and completed with total transparency; including keeping the congregation up to speed with the process by way of family meetings. Time was allowed throughout the process for prayer, study, observations, and questions. There is now plurality of eldership which includes paid elders as well as lay elders.

    By His Grace . .

  4. here we go again!
    July 28th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    @ Tired of crying!!!!!!!

    Please who ever you are have some compassion on these AWFUL child abuse cases……….do you have children? how long have you been in the church? have you ever been abused in any way and trusted in God to support your leadership in the situation? If you have children and they were molested IN CHURCH by a teenager and you were the victim but the pastors/leaders kid was the one who was the one who did this you may have called the police BUT BUT BUT people want to not think that this is true at first and when the curtain is finally pulled back and the evidence speaks and IT IS TRUE it is HEART BREAKING !!!!
    TIRED OF CRYING TAKE THE LOG OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE SO YOU CAN SEE THE TEAR/SPECK OF THE ONE THAT YOU JUDGE!!!!!!!!

  5. happymom
    July 28th, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Noel,

    Wallace & I stand in agreement with you & Grizzly. A friend is transcribing it for us and we are preparing to post our response.

  6. FSGP
    July 28th, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    Blue Sky – :welcome

    I’m with Remnant and Stunned. Cut yourself some slack, grab yourself a seat, relax and chill for a while.

  7. Patti
    July 28th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    I would like to say something about ‘moving on.’ I thought my rejecting God altogether was moving on. How I regret using drugs, alcohol, anything to forget the past was moving on. I think moving on was selfish. I should have shouted from the rooftops so more kids would not have to endure what I did. When Jesus turned me around, moving on is going back and helping.
    I listened to Daystar last night. I don’t listen much to Christian TV but Joni Lamb has a good program where they talk about issues and have guests on that talk about their pasts. One man who was born in concetration camp has an awful horrible story to tell. He has moved on. But before he ‘moved on’ he wasn’t going back and helping. Going back, telling your story IS moving on.

  8. exCLCer
    July 28th, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    anne aka acme,
    old timer,
    praying for covlife,
    pilgrim,
    walking wounded,
    radically saved,
    mary:

    Thank you to those who listened to my story and related and those who expressed the genuine concern and integrity (that the people who should have back then never did). I do appreciate that affirmation of human decency.

    praying for covlife– (we may know eachother — there were a lot of people Ive never talked to or seen since everything went down, but still remember some of them very fondly).

  9. Lucy
    July 28th, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    Bridget #353 — So “paid elders” at Grace Church SD, huh? Uhm …. I’m not quite sure how that’s better. Why the need for “paid elders”? Seems like an added expense for the church, if you ask me.

    Maybe they should outsource all “paid” eldering to India.

  10. exCLCer
    July 28th, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    Pilgrim, I often wish I could go back and ask all the questions at the time too. I was old enough to know things were just WRONG, but not quite mature enough to process it all and stand up against what was a clear injustice. I do remember the kindness of some rare people, not even knowing how destitute things were, but sending food and inviting us for meals here and there (thank you)…I guess it was so bad it started to be kind of obvious. One person gave the pastors a fairly large sum of money telling them it was an anonymous donation to help us… I think it went to the molesters legal fees. Anyway, not many families knew enough to help though. I remember how my mother used to make meals and deliver them to whoever was sick or pregnant, and the pregnant single moms we would have living with us from time to time, or the crack addicted foster babies that came through our home, and think, why are we any less deserving of any help when we became so needy? But there was no rally for us, and I understand why, because we were told it was all supposed to be kept very secret. If the church members knew they might ask questions and it was NOT to be talked about under any circumstances. So Im sure there were good people there who just didnt know. Yes, they blamed my mom (in their roundabout, “youre not submissive enough” way). Yes they blamed my sister, even saying the perp was not a pedophile, but must have just been attracted to the woman she was becoming (at ELEVEN years old!!!), and Yes they justified our subsequent poverty as self induced by my mothers reluctance to help them keep this man out of jail. I still cant “wrap my head around it” either. He did have a short sentence, (thanks to the pastors legal support for him), but once released he refused to help pay for the support of his family, since he was obviously the victim of such an unforgiving wife and kids. I think my mother assumed, like you and many others, that the pastors, as church leaders, would make right decisions, but she found out pretty quickly that wasnt the case.

  11. exCLCer
    July 28th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    Walking wounded – Im reassured to hear your take on the response I got. I wondered if it was just me, ya know, feeling like it was carefully crafted to express concern without expressing any responsibility.

    Tired of the crying – if youre tired of it, then dont read it. Until you are a victim in that situation, dont be so sure of what you may or may not have done. To say that people werent thinking critically may be true, but you obviously have no understanding of how indoctrination works, and how critical thinking (questioning) was pervasively rebuked in this church. But I will tell you, I didnt see all those critical thinking members, you seem to know of, crawling out of the woodwork when my family was in desperation, thats for sure. I didnt see all these “smart” people rushing to our defense. I wish I had.

  12. exCLCer
    July 28th, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    RadicallySaved – thank you so much for your concern. We are survivors. I truly learned to be happy with little, understanding that freedom, truth, and family are the greatest treasures on earth, so in that I am RICH. It took many many years to recover from the situation we were in. Me and my siblings were all separated for many years, gradually aging out of the state system one at a time but eventually finding our way back to eachother and our mother. A few of them had fairly decent foster homes for a while, but many of us shuffled through shelters, institutions and various other temporary living arrangements. I cant speak for all of us, but I myself feel like the price paid in pain and suffering alone for so many years, was still well worth the freedom from the invevitable years of involvement in that wicked church, had we not been booted from it — best tears ever spent. We are each stronger for all we have been through, and many of us are now really involved in helping people who go through what we have survived. Theres still a lot of anger for a few of us, and we as a family understand that too.

  13. notBob
    July 28th, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    Noel regarding your post #331. You mentioned that one of the molesters was a pastor’s son? And others have mentioned there was more than one perpetrator. None of this has ever been revealed a SGC of Fairfax and the members there have a right to know who these people are so they can protect their kids. My kids attended during the late 90′s up until a few months ago. And I would really like to know who the perps are so I can inquire of my children if they are hiding anything that might have happened to them. This is crazy! I can’t believe we are trustingly letting out kids go to a church where they hide and protect people that molest children?!!? I can’t wrap my brain around this. I just hope nothing happened to anyone else and that they aren’t afraid to talk about it because they think they would be blamed for the problem.
    Sorry if this sounds like a rant but I’m really upset about this.

  14. Lucy
    July 29th, 2011 at 12:57 am

    ExCLCer — I just have no words for your story. You’re a very impressive person, you know that? I’m a bit in awe of you.

    As to your comment to “Tired of the Crying,” AMEN. Being a blogger myself for a long time now, I never understand the angries who don’t avail themselves of the “click-away” option. “D**n this free content that people put a lot of time and thought into! It’s so ENRAGING!!” I mean, please. No one’s being forced to read. No one’s being asked to pay.

    Why torture yourself? Go look at Cute Overload and chillax.

  15. Ellie
    July 29th, 2011 at 1:44 am

    ExCLCer,

    EXCELLENT response to “Tiring” in #361!!!

  16. andythepicketer
    July 29th, 2011 at 1:52 am

    Phoenix #256 Correction: Not threat of imminent picketing, just imminent.

    When I read about yet another case of sexual abuse of a minor in this very thread (an 11 year old), believe me it’s imminent. In fact we already have the signs, the banner had a misspelling so it’s being shipped back and done over. For the first picket there will be just a few of us so the actual day will be a total surprise for the staff at Fairfax. After the initial picket I’m posting dates on a website and accepting additional volunteers. There is plenty of public space out along the road that is available for picketers and Fairfax’s 15 member security team won’t be able to stop a legal picket as there will be no trespass on their property. I did find it amusing how they went over their security measures in such detail, how they have ex & current law enforcement etc. So what, they can’t do zip off their property without being sued, arrested or fired from whatever agency they serve. With Snyder V. Phelps ET AL. being decided for the picketers by the US Supreme court on March 2 of this year and the recent Federal Court ruling that qualified immunity doesn’t stop lawsuits by picketers whose rights were violated by the Maryland State police, picketers are more protected then ever before.

    With respect to the Family meeting & cry-a thon at Fairfax, it seemed pretty blatant in it’s obvious attempt to manipulate the flock. They were working real hard at whipping up sympathy for
    themselves. They are scared to death of their church disintegrating and it will if they don’t discover honesty. Anyone that has been watching these cases since last March should be enraged at the Fairfax staff for such dishonesty. Recently a current attender at Fairfax (that I know) referred to them as scum. After listening to the entire family meeting I can understand why she is suddenly so angry at them instead of me for the first time in a month or so.

    So yes the picketers are coming, Fairfax first and then Gaithersburg. Rinse and repeat many, many times until the scum is gone and the children of this community are safe from pedophile filth and their enablers/protectors.

    Ex-clcer: I’m so sorry for your pain. I get it and understand. You and your family are in my prayers.

  17. Ozymandias
    July 29th, 2011 at 4:27 am

    Bridget –

    I looked over at Grace Church SD’s website, under the About Us, Team subdirectory, and it shows the elders (all of whom are pastors) and a leadership council, which, according to the description, was formed by the elders. Is it the leadership council you are referring to you when you talk about a group of “lay [non-vocational] elders” vs. “paid [vocational] elders.” Are all of the men on the leadership council part of the church’s small group leadership structure? Are the folks on the non-vocational leadership council on rotation, and do they meet together with the pastoral team on a weekly/monthly basis?

  18. seeking truth
    July 29th, 2011 at 4:53 am

    exCLCer ,I’m so sorry,that should have never happened to your family!I really wonder where these pastors hearts are? Do they have one? How could men who are suppose to be caring for people act like that? It’s just awful.I just don’t understand why so many pedophiles are protected within the SGM system.It just doesn’t make sense!!!!
    So glad you all survived and were reunited back together as a family!!

  19. happymom
    July 29th, 2011 at 5:47 am

    ecCLCer,

    Just when I think I’ve heard the worst that this ministry has done, along comes another story that breaks my heart. I can’t find words right now. I am so very sorry for what you and your family endured. Not only do these leaders not reflect a “Gospel-centered life” they can’t even respond like any normal human being would to people who are suffering. Thank you for bravely sharing your story.

    To those who went to bat for Noel & I regarding Tired of crying,
    Thank you! I honestly feel sorry for someone who is so blinded by loyalty to SGM or any another ministry that they completely lose sight of how very ungodly they sound. I know the truth, do does Noel,comments like that do not deter us.

  20. Phoenix
    July 29th, 2011 at 6:46 am

    notBob,

    I can well understand your anger. In the year or more after Noel’s story the parents in the same homegroup, some of whom were also neighbors, were not told of that perp (who had much access to their children.) Certainly the church at large was not warned, even when we were to attend a Celebration Conference with the perp’s family. In the interests of full disclosure here, let me say that I did know. I didn’t tell everyone because 1.I mistakenly believed that the situation was being handled in good faith if imperfectly 2. The actual acts that took place had been obfuscated, distorted, and minimized. 3. I was allowed to believe that Noel and Grizzly wanted the confidentiality 4. Perp’s family were still my friends as well 6. I thought this was an isolated, aberrant incident 5. I was still not fully detoxed from the Koolaid.

    Maybe I still need to work through what I should have done differently.

    Two more thoughts. I want people to be comforted and find hope in the fact that all these years later Noel and Grizzly’s beautiful daughter is thriving. Although I am very close to the family, there have no doubt been issues for her that I don’t know about. But I have watched her grow up and she is a brilliant, glowing, whole, young woman, making her parents, her siblings, her friends, and the young men crazy.

    Finally, notBob and others, those of the “Fairfax gang” who were underage are now grown men and I don’t think any of them are still at Fairfax. The one who was an adult at the time married soon after the incidents and I don’t think he is at Fairfax either. Notwithstanding, feel free to email me. You can find my e-mail and my real name in an earlier post. Kris and Stunned both have them as well. I will freely share what information I have.

  21. FSGP
    July 29th, 2011 at 7:19 am

    Ozy and those interested in SoCal -

    Now the sitchy-ation that we got in Sandy Eggo with them elders, that sitchy-ation, why they cud get de-elderfied. Then some dem boys cud get re-elderfied. Cuz that there pastor, he got de-giftified but shazam weren’t he re-giftified. An’ a this all is blessed by the apostle who was de-apostlated.

    The only horses them boys in Sandy Eggo gots is geldings, yup.

    Former SG Pastor

  22. happymom
    July 29th, 2011 at 7:43 am

    The perspective that Mark painted about “not wanting to reveal the identity of victim” (25:23 in the audio)
    does not line up with his response to me in our meeting with him last spring. I asked him why don’t they notify families at risk?
    His response: “because that perpetrator could grow up and sue us for defamation of character.”

    Also, he stated “in the swirl of things to think about we lost sight of the victim.” He failed to mention that in that “swirl” they called their attorney’s.

  23. Breeezey
    July 29th, 2011 at 7:47 am

    ExCLCer… Allow me to say this FIRST – your story enrages me like few others. Because TAG/GOB/CLC/PDI/SGM only targeted the middle to upper middle class there are few stories here of “extreme” poverty. Your story is one of them. As a former member of CLC allow me to say that if there are any needs you, your mom, or your siblings have PLEEEEEASE allow your extended family here to help. I would be among the first to donate. :welcome

    BTW… my kids were the CLC school for 3 years, from the Frost Center on Aspen Hill Road through the first year in Gaithersburg. So you may remember my oldest, TJ. My (now ex-)wife and I couldn’t handle the cost and the car pooling so they all finished in public schools.

    I am truly sorry for the pain and hardship you endured and the tears you shed.

  24. Remnant
    July 29th, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Blue Sky I’m glad you’ve found comfort and that my words are timely. I hope you take the advice of Stunned and FSGP to chill.

    Blue Sky, I cannot fathom willingly going back to someone who seriously spiritually abused me. It’s up to them to have the wake up call from the Lord, and up to them to take on the Godly mantle as men of God to seek you out with honest, heartfelt, tears of repentance and an offer of restitution.

    Going to them and expecting to receive something other than serious spiritual abuse, is unwise. You’re just inviting them to kick you more.

    And you certainly don’t deserve that! You are a precious child of the King! And I’m sure the King doesn’t appreciate His children getting kicked by those He charged as servants. Your King/Father will have His say – if not this day, in that Day which is to come.

    And that is where I hang my hat.

    exCLCer Your story is heartbreaking. The evils the SG leadership played on your family are so far from Godly – so far from love – so far from righteousness. How did those pastors go home each night to a hot meal without vomiting the feast, knowing that you were starving? How could they not deliver baskets of provision? How how how???? The question rings….and deserves an answer.

    That you and your siblings have found your way home to mom after years forced apart by these evil pastors is heart-warming. I thank God. I can’t imagine…

    God is a Righteous Judge who oversees with jealousy. Evil like this does not go unpunished. He sees and is not fooled by man’s folly or self-delusions.

    Hugs. Thank you for sharing your story. I hope the guilty parties can come to see the fullness of the evil they did to you and are brought to their knees in Godly sorrow.

  25. Whirlwind
    July 29th, 2011 at 8:12 am

    I know SGM pastors practice expository preaching so they can’t avoid the more difficult texts of Scripture. Has anyone ever heard anyone with SGM preach through Ezekiel 34?

    1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? 3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. 4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals. 6 My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them.

    7 “‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: 8 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, 9 therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: 10 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.

    There’s more through the end of the chapter. Verse 10 is especially interesting in that the Lord says He will hold the shepherds accountable by removing (de-gifting?) them.

    Can anyone say whether this receives any attention in the PC?

  26. Breeezey
    July 29th, 2011 at 8:18 am

    Below is an exerpt from The Omega Letter by Jack Kinsella. Most of the posters here are believers. Although they have been damaged and hurt, they still believe that God truly loved them enough to send His Son to die for them. However there are some like exCLCer who have been hurt so badly that they either lost what little faith they had or never believed in the first place. I would beg of all unbelievers that both post and lurk to not just allow their tears to be written in one of God’s books but to allow their name to be written in the Book of Life by giving all of their hurts and pains to the One who says He will one day wipe away all tears.

    The Books
    And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” (Revelation 20:12)

    Allow me to set the stage for the scene just described. We are being given an eyewitness account of the Great White Throne Judgment.

    “And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. ” (Revelation 20:11)

    The Great White Throne is the third of the three great judgments outlined by Scripture; the first two being the Believer’s Judgment at the Bema Seat and the judgment of the sheep and goat nations.

    The Judge is at all three of these judgments is Jesus Christ. The Great White Throne Judgment is not a New Testament doctrine — the Prophet Daniel described it exactly as John did.

    “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, Whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool: His throne was like the fiery flame, and His wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.” (Daniel 7:9-10)

    Notice another similarity between John’s account and Daniel’s. Both John and Daniel refer to the ‘books’ — plural.

    “And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15)

    So the Book of Life is the ticket into heaven. Anyone whose name is not in there will join the antichrist and false prophet in the Lake of Fire.

    What are the other books?

    There is the Book of Tears. “Thou tellest my wanderings: put Thou my tears into Thy bottle: are they not in Thy book?”

    The Book of Tears records our pain and disappointments and sadness — Who we trusted and how we dealt with the trials and tribulations of this life.

    “In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me. . . . For Thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?” (Psalms 56:10-11,13)

    God also keeps a Book of Remembrance:

    “Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His Name. And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.” (Malachi 3:16-17)

    This is where God records that which sometimes man forgets. The Scriptures promise that: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved.” Acts 2:21)

    The fourth book in which our names are recorded is the Book of Births.

    “Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in Thy Book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.” (Psalms 139:16)

    I believe the Bible teaches that everybody is recorded in all four books; births, remembrance, tears and life.

    Babies who die as babies go to heaven, so their names must also be recorded in the Book of Life. Paul says that, while “I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” (Romans 7:9)

    If that sin is not covered by the Blood of Christ by the time we leave this earth, then we have not overcome — since we are overcomers only through the imputed righteousness of Christ and not our own righteousness, holiness or ability.

    If we are not overcomers through Christ, then are our names blotted out of the Book of Life and “the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:5)

    This is a lot to take in at once, so I will try to summarize. The Bible outlines four different books in which our names are recorded and against which we are judged, either at the Bema Seat or the Great White Throne.

    The books record our births and our trials in this life. We are judged according to what is written in those books, and we are saved according to what is written in the other two.

    God records the day we called out to Him in His Book of Remembrance or He blots our name from the Book of Life if we fail to do so in this life. If our names are still recorded in the Book of Life then we will appear before Christ at the Bema Seat for the believer’s judgment.

    We will still be judged based on what is written in those books, but our judgment is to determine our rewards rather than our punishment. Stop with me here for one second. Note again the criteria for appearing before the Bema Seat.

    Those who stand before it trusted Jesus rather than themselves. The small and great in Christ will both be there.

    Some will receive great rewards, others will receive no reward whatever apart from being permitted entry into the kingdom. “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” (1st Corinthians 3:15)

    Then there is the Great White Throne. Those who appear before it will be judged for all their works, but they will be sentenced based on just one criteria.

    Where their name should appear in the Book of Life — there is an ink blot.

    Salvation isn’t difficult. It is what God created us for. Every person who ever lived is (or was once) recorded in all four books.

    Whether or not one’s name remains in the Book of Life depends on Who one trusts to keep it there.

    So please don’t let hurt, anger, rage, and pain keep you out of the Book of Life. The hurts you felt through SGM qualify to be written in the Book of Tears both they will not keep you in the Book of Life, only Jesus can do that.

  27. Stunned
    July 29th, 2011 at 8:26 am

    I just read part of exCLCer’s story. (I can’t handle it all at once. I had to only read portions. I will read the rest soon.)

    I swear by everything that is good and holy, not one person better come on here and tell me that ANY pastor that knew what was happening in that household is worthy of trust. NOT ONE. There was not one pastor who knew what was going on who is worthy to be trusted today. And I am not just talking about exCLCer trusting them. They, by their behavior, have SHOWN themselves to NOT be trustworthy pastors, and barely trustworthy Christians. Frankly, I don’t know a man even outside of Christiandom that would behave in such deplorable ways.

    Right here and now I am calling for every single pastor who was involved in exCLCers’ story to step down immediately. You are not worthy of the work a pastor is called to.

    SGM is filling the pastor’s college (only they invite men to go to that school) because they know that a lot of the current pastors will have to step down as these stories become better known. Problem is, they are creating even worse sycophants with the new pastor’s college.

    This must be stopped. God, please be with those who are grieving and being abused today. And God, please, those of us who are not, give us the strength, love and compassion to stand by their side, making sure that they are not alone.

    God forgive us all for the people we have ignored along the way.

  28. Stunned
    July 29th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    exCLCer, please, take Breeezy up on his offer to help your family. Right now, it is time for your family to feel the love of the body (which you should have felt many moons ago). I know right now you may feel as if you are OK, but please, please allow the body of Christ to care for you and your family, even in a small practical way. So please, take this from your older sister in Christ, contact Kris and tell her that you are willing to let Breeezy help your mom and you guys out in whatever way he wants. I don’t know him from Adam, but his offer seems sincere. Let him be God’s hands in your life right now.

    In Him,
    Stunned

  29. DB
    July 29th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Same here, Stunnned. I keep thinking my reading comprehension is going down the toilet and I walk away and come back.

    11 years old, that’s a year younger than my baby girl.

    And nobody extended help toward this mother.

    A lot of fat pigs wallowing in their wealth while a mother and nine children went without. I’ve been poor. I know what it feels like to be homeless. I do *not* know what it feels like to choose between eating and being sheltered and having my children violated by a (delete foul words but thee are no decent words to use so you use your imagination.)

    I agree with Stunned. You (deleted word with no substitute in polite company) you cannot give the little girl back her tween and teen years; you can’t. Just as you cannot give back the precious things your actions or complicity have robbed this family, I say you should remove yourselves from a position of authority.

    Those of you reading this who are under the authority of such (removed word that has no substitute in decent society,) and you’re just waking up to reality; DO NOT SIT QUIETLY BY. How on earth do we know that such a thing isn’t happening right now under our noses?

    If they didn’t protect this family what makes you think they *are* protecting anyone in their care.

    So, go ahead and eat, drink, and crack jokes with Molehill, Driscoli, and Dunkin Donuts because someday you will be in front of the Judge and He will be playing the tapes that you can’t erase no matter who your (deleted word) friends are.

    And I don’t want to even witniss that exchange because I will actually pity you on that day.

  30. Whirlwind
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    happymom wrote in #372:

    His response: “because that perpetrator could grow up and sue us for defamation of character.”

    I’m not an attorney, but even a quick Google search finds this:

    In order to prove defamation, you have to be able to prove that what was said or written about you was false. If the information is true, or if you consented to publication of the material, you will not have a case.

    Seems like their attorneys should have known this, or is there an attorney out there that can bring additional light on this?

  31. BrokenHearted
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    On Mark’s talk at the family meeting – Wow. That was REALLY good.

    On the church safety portion – I could see how Vince’s talk could come across as defensive or trying to minimize their responsibility, and I am so sorry it was hurtful to Noel and HappyMom the way he handled it. But, for me – not as one of the parents involved – it was reassuring. It helped answer some of the questions in my mind about ways they are trying to keep kids safe, if these events happened on church grounds, how they would handle it once learning about such cases. I was so grateful to hear that they are calling the parents whose kids interacted with the child porn guy.

    On the defense of Lou – This is so opposite to what HappyMom and Wallace have written. This is so hard. :( :( HappyMom – I look forward to hearing what y’all have to say about the meeting – what is true in your mind, what is false in your mind, and stuff. My heart is hurting for all of you. :( :( Lou’s crying just broke my heart, mixed with the things y’all have said, it’s so hard. :( :( :(

    Sidenote: I never heard any names mentioned of the victims. (or perps)

  32. Stunned
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    DB, think about it, CJ was asking that not only would the church (including tithes from poor people in CLC- in one of the richest counties in the entire nation- which just so happens to be one of the richest nations in the entire world- where was I?… CJ, who made 6 figures, would go other places to speak. He was paid by his church for this time, even though he was speaking at another place. THEN (from what has been shared) he was paid by that other place, too. Then his organization/non-religious-non-church (that’s not me saying this, they are actually legally filed as a non-religious organization- please feel free to go check this out- don’t trust me- your church ain’t no church by their own legal admission)… then CJ’s non-religious organization (which takes in money and sells things..hmm… business anyone?), they not only pay him a good salary and pay him while he is going off to these other places, which also pay him (I thought George Castanza made it clear that double dipping was wrong?)… not only does he get paid (generously) twice, but THEN both the rich and the poor and anyone else giving a tithe to SGM/CLC also pays for CJ’s plane fare to this place where he will be double dipping. (You each got a thank you note from him, didn’t you?) Oh, wait, did I mention that after all this you ALSO paid for his wife to go with him on these trips. And remember that peachy little part of Brent’s documents where Brent believed CJ was trying to pressure SGM into paying for his son on the flight, too?

    Well, no wonder they had no money to put into the mouths of starving children.

    These rotten, no good son of… :beat This is not a dead horse I am wishing I was beating right now.

    Hey SGMers, instead of giving one more penny to a bunch of over fed men who stand by and watch children abused, how about you give your tithe to someone in your community who is hungry! Don’t know anyone? Best getting to actually getting involved with the hurting and the hungry instead of whatever the heck else you are doing “serving” at your church. ‘Cause if you don’t know someone who is in need, then what you are doing isn’t worthy of your time.

    Stunned
    angry much? today I am!

  33. Stunned
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Brokenhearted,

    You guys still have not been told the names of the perps?

  34. BrokenHearted
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Y’all might not agree with me, but I was SUPER convicted while listening to their family meeting and I am crying over here.

    The Holy Spirit is giving me something I never thought I would have… a desire to be reconciled with those guys. A desire to not be angry anymore. A desire to ask their forgiveness and actually tell them how they hurt me instead of bottling it up and just hating them.

    It feels super freeing…’cause I’m not scared anymore. I am not scared to talk to them. SO weird… I am emailing 3 of the SovGrace FFX guys right now. :)

    Even if you don’t agree with me please praise God for whatever He is doing. :)

  35. Stunned
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Brokenhearted, that is AWESOME. God is at work! I praise Him for what He is doing in you. Will be praying for that email. (I love seeing God at work, freeing people to forgive.)

  36. 5yearsin PDI
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Andy- what is your picketing website?

    You’ve been talking about it for a while and they must know about it. I think you’ve forced at least some confession of wrong, and deserve credit for cracks in the whitewashed wall. I had forgotten about you when I first read MMs statement, and I am more cynical now. It would be good to see Noel and Happy Mom fully satisfied, but we are certainly not at that place yet.

    Do you have a mailbox addy for donations? I’d be glad to mail a twenty and think I helped pay for a sign.

  37. DB
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Brokenhearted,

    If your heart is to forgive those men, God bless you.

    But forgiving and forgetting are two different things and the people that would let a girl bbe their sacrificial lamb need to give an account.

    Seriously, I will believe there is real change when

    1) The man is not always right.

    2) The man is not protected.

    3) The woman is provided for (and, broad hint, Bob Kauflin could redirect his extra lawyered up money to this family and CJ couldd redirect his 6 figure donations in this family’s direction and you do not need to construct palatial churches when you have families in your midst that don’t have the basics and you are in an extremely wealthy geographic location so your middle class to poor folks ratio is such that the burdon should be relatively light.

    Brokenhearted, after my family was dismembered, my oldest child (15 or 16ish at the time) apologized to one of the pastors for harboring a bad attitude toward him.

    He forgave her.

    (deleted cuss words) pastor, big man, so proud of his Y chromosome forgave *her* that (beep beep beep dedede beep.) man should have been groveling begging her forgiveness but he is so deceived by the line of $h!t that he has been fed by this family of churches (Inc.) that he likely doesn’t even remember the exchange.

    My daughter is that much lower on his food chain.

    And your goodhearted intentions brought back *that* memory so be careful..

  38. BrokenHearted
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Stunned – I am not a member at the fairfax church anymore. I was there 1988 – 2004, so they may have released that info to parents in the church.

    Thanks for your prayers :)

  39. BrokenHearted
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Oh. My. Gosh.

    I sent that email and I am 99% sure before they even had time to read it I had a message expressing remorse over how I was treated from one of the folks who I’ve been so bitter against.

    I cant even type I’m crying so hard.

    God is so kind to me!!!!!!!

  40. WaitingPatiently
    July 29th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Brokenhearted, when God moves it IS super freeing. Whether man gets it right or not, whether their intentions are sincere or slightly spinned or full-on spinned, God can still use the situation to move you to a place of peace and freedom. And that’s the amazing thing! God is so much bigger than all this.

    I’m praying for you in that He will bring you to full freedom and joy and that He would use this to continue to convict, change and redirect the hearts of SGM pastors in whatever changes are necessary.

  41. Stunned
    July 29th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Brokenhearted, I am so happy that God is setting you free. This is something to truly rejoice over. This is why Jesus came to die and rose again, so we could be free of bitterness, malice, envy and rage. Praise God for this wonderful thing He is doing in your heart. I pray He gives that same freedom to all. Let us know how it works out from here!

    I hope this person does go back and reads your email all the way through, if they haven’t done so already. Your voice needs to be heard.

  42. Patti
    July 29th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Brokenhearted, that is so cool what the Holy Spirit is doing for you right now. Just please keep listening to his guidance because I have found that it seems He heals in order to send us back into the camp to help heal the rest. I’ve been listening to the amazing stories of holcaust survivors all week on Daystar, tonight last one I think. God so supernaturally causing events to happen that enabled the victims to trust God many years later after hating Him for what Christians allowed. But they are never ever to forget. And one thing I take away from such massive abusive events is how they got to be that way through the people around them turning a blind eye. The Christians who only wanted to think about lovely and pure things not balanced with the ich we must see and think about in order to heal people. And to anyone here who feels the need to preach at people who can’t love God right now, it doesn’t help.

  43. BrokenHearted
    July 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    She read it on here. Yet another way God used SGM Survivors. :)

    I don’t regret sharing my story here – what I *do* regret is not sharing it with the pastors/people involved first or at any point in the past 7 years, but God is bigger than my sin and He is bigger than their sin – and He is at work “There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus…” :)

    BTW, this in no way is to say that they did not sin or that those of you who have been sinned against and are sharing here are wrong. I just am really excited at what God seems to be doing and want to share it here since I have shared my hurts here I want to share today’s joy as well. :)

  44. Kris
    July 29th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    New post up. Comments to close here soon.

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