A Helpful Timeline

What follows is a timeline put together by Jenn Grover. I am embedding it here (you can use the scroll bars to navigate the timeline if it appears blank) with Ms. Grover’s permission, but you can also click on this link to view it on the Dippity site.

The timeline is introduced with the following note:

This is a timeline of the details outlined in “The Documents” that Brent Detwiler wrote to address longstanding issues within SGM and with C.J. Mahaney as well as relevant SGM historical data. This timeline was developed for the benefit of those who were unable to read through all of Brent’s documents and to provide a visual aid for piecing the events together. This is not intended to be an exhaustive argument in any fashion; that has been accomplished in Brent’s documents. Where possible, links to the source material have been provided. Every attempt has been made to provide an accurate representation of Brent’s documents and SGM historical information. If you believe that there are inaccuracies please indicate in the comments the title of the entry, the date, and the relevant corrections. I will not moderate comments on this, but please consider keeping your comments limited to the timeline as opposed to your view of SGM, Brent, or C.J. There are plenty of other places on the web already available for this type of dialogue. Additional media content (relevant photos, video, and audio) may be added to the timeline. Please feel free to contact me if you have additional media content to add. Thanks to Eric Grover and Brent Detwiler for editorial review input.

224 comments to A Helpful Timeline

  • Excuse me – Jenn took one of my photographs to illustrate “Treat Him Like a Teenager”

    I respectfully ask that she remove that photograph and any others that were taken by me – Rachel Pray.

  • Jayson

    At the SGM related church we atteneded, our glossary had a different meaning for “former members” – see below. This was straight from our pastor, as he said it more than a couple of times in CG. Sad to say, but that is how former members were treated when we attended and still are to this day. Even when it was mentioned in CG that someone saw a former member who was going well, it was as very short time before we would be reminded “sin is pleasurable for a season.”

    “Former Members” – “they were among us but not one of us” :huh

  • DB

    my version of Phoenix’s Harry Potter was taking a women’s studies class and realizing that much of the gender thing is a control tactic that has been used for thousands of years. That and reading books for myself.

  • Phoenix

    To those who are planning to leave SGM or think they might:

    I’ve posted something about this before but I think it’s very relevant now. As you’re contemplating leaving SGM keep in mind that many, many other churches will not care what your former SGM leaders say about you, even if SGM does decide you’re “worth pursuing.” Many folks will not be worth pursuing or shunning; but they leave the threat out there to control all.

    I have the God-given advantage that my Christian training comes from varied sources –I was raised Presbyterian, have been nondenominational Pentecostal, low church and higher church Episcopalian/Anglican. I say I’ve been everything except Roman Catholic or Baptist. Not that it kept me from being entangled with PDI/SGM for far too long. But it does give me a perspective that can be useful.

    Strategies to deal with the “pursuit” issue if you’re concerned about it.

    1. Take a church break for a while. Hang around on the blog. Read some books that you would never, never have found in the SGM bookstore.
    2. Take a modified church break — just visit, sing, and sit in the back.
    3. Try a “vanilla” denominational church. They are among those unlikely to care what SGM thinks — many of them thought PDI/SGM was a cult before it actually was :)
    4. Find some local survivor friends. I’ve had breakfast once a week with a survivor friend for years — we used to call it the Church of Cracker Barrel.
    5. If you want to commit to a new church, lay it on the line with your new pastor. Tell *him* you’ve come out of a cult and that he may get a phone call from them.

    **Find a church with a female pastor. I can guarantee you she will laugh in SGM’s face.

    And this one worked to help me detox. I watched Harry Potter on DVD every Sunday morning for months. Really. What is your Harry Potter?

  • oldtimer

    exclcersmom, Hi. Glad to read your most excellent posting. That is my advice too. Seek God for yourself and you won’t go wrong. That is the hard part however–learning to hear His voice for yourself and having enough belief that you have heard Him and then acting on it.

    It’s too easy to let other people who preach, speak and write do it for you.

  • sgmnot

    Virginia #148 — Thank you for your beautifully written post.

    Matt #193 — :lol: You gave me a good laugh!

    exCLCersMom #195 — :word Excellent advice. I deeply admire you for being a woman of strength and conviction.

  • Breeezey

    Since I was the one who bought up YWAM in the first place allow me to say this, I think every large organization can have pockets where things get off what we think is the “correct” path. While I am not going to be an apologist for everything YWAM I think over all its reach far out distances anything Loren Cunningham thought God would do when he started it in 1960. Loren himself has preached in EVERY COUNTRY on this planet. They were smuggling Bibles into eastern block countries and still smuggle them into countries where the Bible is outlawed.

    Winkie Pratney (who is a personal friend and I just spent a few days with him at WARWEEK in Detroit) has created a Revival Library at the YWAM Tyler base.

    He almost died a couple of years ago while preaching in Korea. He was in a coma for 2 weeks but God healed him miraculously. At the time he was working along with Steve Hill on The Revival Study Bible. It comes with the entire BRC Classical Theological Library on DVD.
    Both of them were attacked physically in their bodies while working on this.

    Remember, all through scripture God has done what we would call weird things. Balaam and his donkey, Jonah and the whale and a dude who was a one hit wonder in the Book of Acts named Agabus come to mind. God’s servants haven’t all been like Daniel. I think Peter was told to “shut up” by all three members of the Godhead. And then Paul jumped down his throat too.

    So while YWAM has had some issues the overall majority of its work has honored God and they have done their best to live up to their motto of “To Know God and Make Him Known.

    God uses whatever He can get His hands on to spread His word. Each of us has flaws and we are all a work in progress and He uses all of us. :!:

  • Leo

    Sidney – here’s the answer to your questions:

    Should I change jobs? – Will you make more $$$ and still have time to “serve” the local church? Are those you will work for SGM died in the wool members? If so, change jobs and don’t forget to tithe!!!! Better yet, quit and start your own business in lawn care…. just don’t start a cosmetic car repair company – we have that covered and don;t want any competition for the already established businesses.
    Should I move to another city? No, you will be forsaking the “local church” and not under our “covering”. Oh, it’s an SGM city? We will think about it…. and if we “release” you, you need to sign in blood that you will attend brainwash, i mean care groups of the new pastor’s choosing and never miss a meeTing.
    Should I have another kid? Of course, your love slave, I mean wife can handle a fifth kid, cleaning the house, cooking, shopping, diapers and of course home schooling. She should be barefoot and pregnant.
    Should I buy that car? Is it a used car? Will it take away from your tithe? Did one of our care repair “businesses” make fix it up cosmetically?
    Is my outfit ok? Um, no…. go change into something that isn’t neck – you might cause your brothers to stumble. Men – go put on your baggy kahki’s and 3 sizes to big polo shirt.
    Should I send my kids to school? Umm… Did you not read the memo? Homeschool or you are in sin!!!!
    Should my wife work? No – she needs to be home as your slave
    Should I teach my son to cook more than ramen noodles? No, he will get a slave, I mean wife to cook for him and she will learn to cook healthy meals for him
    Can I please switch care groups? No, never. The only time you can switch care groups is when we (the cult leaders) decide to mix up the care groups.

    For those of you trying to figure how to leave, just do it. Don’t engage the “pastors” or “care group leaders” – that will only lead to drama that you don’t need. If they keep following you, file for a restraining order. Actually, everyone that is leaving and wondering how should pick a date for everyone to stop attending the “meeTings”

  • Phoenix

    I’m reminded of another story…

    I was in a conversation with two (then-PDI) married friends of mine. One was asking the other whether she and her husband should have another baby (#4.) They were going on in some detail about how to hear from God, where to seek Godly counsel, how to pray about this, knowing God’s perfect timing… what were the issues… what books to read…you all know the drill. At a pause in their discussion, I said, “Well, even if you start trying you’re not going to conceive unless God wants you to have another child, so I don’t think you really have to struggle so much with the decision.” They both looked at me like I had just come down off the mountain. They did have baby #4, btw.

  • Patti

    Thank you Numo and fashionably late for the YWAM info, our YWAM leader friends just happen to be back in our area for a couple weeks, my husband and he are fishing buddies. So good timing, I want to ask them about some of this stuff. I’m pretty sure he lost money in that scheme thing I read about. And my daughter did the DTS and outreach but she had already been pretty educated about the whacky world of different Christian thinking. That part I was actually in encouragement of her being further informed that way. I mean every denomination is represented by all those kids. She also was a little older, already had lived on her own and gone to 2 years of community college. She wasn’t recruited at all, she was just in her church one day and felt God call her to do a YWAM DTS.Opposite of SGM, I encouraged getting out and seeing stuff on their own before settling down and thinking they know it all. She did help quite a few kids who were straight out of sheltered homes not to swallow everything their leaders fed them. There were definitely some meetings and speakers she had issues with but others she thought were very good. The missions outreaches I think are good for our American kids to see how so much of the world has to live. And as far as demonization goes, I know quite a bit about that stuff too, I’ve seen and experienced the same kind that is in the Bible, but I don’t see where anyone in the Bible shouted down territorial spirits. Just for the record I happen to believe Christians can be demonized, that’s what I think is wrong with Benny Hinn, he never tested that Jesus spirit that visited him when he was 11 yrs old. (from his book Good Morning Holy Spirit) I think that’s where his physical manifestations power comes from that cause all the electric feelings and violent blowing over. He wasn’t saved yet, his testimony was later in college or HS I think. I shared here earlier about my own experience with a counterfeit holy spirit. I have a whacky story of deliverance from a spirit I had before salvation. I think it found an opportunity to manifest when I got involved with the Toronto experience. I believe its important to renounce false religion whether our own or In our ancestry. The Israelites would confess there sin and sin of their fathers when they would rededicate themselves to God. I hadn’t known just how evil the Eastern Star and Freemassonry were that my grandparents were high up into. Weird but when I renounced that as sin in my ancestry the manifestations stopped. Okay,, I’ve revealed a little too much of my whacky self now.. And off topic :-) sorry.

  • NameGoesHere

    If they only thing you took out of my posts was offense over my use of the word “charm” in reference to Driscoll then you are really missing the point. You may find him absolutely revolting but he has charisma and he has built an empire around it.

  • numo

    Oh and… the last I heard, some YWAM and ex-YWAM folks were lauding Benny Hinn as “an apostle.”

    [Apologies for the threadjack, folks!]

  • numo

    You might also try doing a search on YWAM and “spiritual mapping.”

  • numo

    @ Patti: oh my – where to begin with YWAM?

    I’d suggest Googling “moral government theology,” “George Otis jr.” and “Transformations.”

    Although Otis is no longer associated with YWAM, he is part of a larger network of YWAM people, and his views (moral government theology) have had a great deal of impact in YWAM and far, far beyond.

    There have also been serious problems at various DTS sites. But for me, the emphasis on so-called “strategic level spiritual warfare,” taking over the “strongholds of demons” and etc. was most important in understanding some of the weirdness at the heart of YWAM.

    I don’t mean to sound unkind about people who’ve been associated with YWAM – I’ve met some who were really nice folks. But others are not what they seem at first blush.

    I think also that looking at the wider YWAM network – includes John and Joy Dawson, Winkie Pratney, Stuart and Celia McAlpine and others – might be interesting to you…

  • Yellow is a Happy Color

    To ExClcersMom–Welcome! We love your daughter here. Glad to have you!

    About Ramen Noodles–doesn’t CJ’s wife know that one little packet of Ramen Noodle ‘spice’ has over 50% of your daily allowance for sodium? Sheesh! Maybe that family is toxic in more ways that one.

    About the housing huddle in Gaithersburg with CLC folk. I always wondered how so many CLC folks got into the same neighborhoods. Too funny.

    It has been said that CLC won’t get it until the feet walk out and the money stops coming in….Looks like there might be some empty seats real soon. :)

    This is a really nice group of people, ya know?

  • Patti

    Kindred, Post #206. Yesssss!!! Maybe someday they will find some of their letters..that is if they haven’t already been found…I mean I am just SURE their are/were some letters written by women that are hidden or destroyed.

  • Fried Fish

    @Sid #202 and #203 –

    Never been to Denver except through the airport. I got nothin’.

    As for the ramen noodles – not to sound condescending to all those good obedient SGM sons out there, but if you have to be taught to make ramen noodles, I guess you really do need one of them there Stepford wives to take care of you :bang

  • Patti

    Me Too,
    Please do let the people here love you. You may not be able to take my story directed at you right now as caring but maybe someday you will.
    Many ‘moons’ ago my younger brother was in drug rehab. We were having a family counseling session at his intreatment for his benefit. A lot was being said about how his past led to his drug addiction. I was being ‘preachy’ at him, in ‘dutiful’ protection of my parents. The counselor got in my face and told me sternly that I was in denial. What? How dare her, my life ‘obviously’ reflected success! So she certainly made me mad at that time. You see I had had all this ‘understanding’ for my abusers and even for my parents who weren’t perfect. (i hadn’t even told anyone the details of my Own stories yet) I wasn’t able I guess to just focus solely on my brother’s pain because I still hadn’t come to terms correctly myself. Nine years later I got really saved. I mean really born again. I mean not just head knowledge about what Jesus did for me, I mean I really ..idk how to even articulate what the last 20 years has been knowing God. Anyway, God so led me into intense spiritual and psychological counseling AFTER real salvation that I then totally knew what that rehab counsellor saw in me years before simply because of the way I was responding to other abused people.
    My counseling involved really looking at what happened to me and in detail. Some things I never really forgave because I excused the behavior instead. Like I always ‘understood’ my mom because she ‘had no other choice’ because of whatever..
    My counsellor got me to be able to call out loud the sin that a person did against me without any excuse for them, and then say out loud, I forgive them for such and such. Then we would pray for them. This went both ways, where I would remember my sin against others and then ask God to forgive me and where restitution was possible I did that. She got me started on that process and I continued on my own.
    What I have found so significant through all that is how I have changed in my response to the hurting.
    You said you were hoping for some love here. Sometimes love is tough.
    I’ve said this before here, one of my regrets is spending years stuffing the pain with some drug use, not regret for myself but because my self medicating kept me quiet therefore allowing others to be abused after me. That’s the guilt that Satan keeps stirring up for me to remember. And all that silence was in the name of a complete misunderstanding of ‘godly’ forgiveness.

  • A Kindred Spirit

    Wouldn’t you love it if Timothy’s (Bible Timothy) mom and grandmother were alive to post on blogs?!!

    Yes indeed, I’d like to read what ‘ol Lois and Eunice would have to say to Carolyn. :D

  • 5yearsinPDI

    Oh. Fairfax.

    Hum. Definitely not one of the less toxic newbie churches.

    On the other hand, Mullery did make a very good apology and IF they 1) go all the way and make things totally right with Happymom and Noel and any others and 2) decide to take “sides” with Josh that SGM has major systemic problems, and renounce the abusive shepherding doctrines…well then, it could end up OK.

    This is not an irreversible decisison. Go visit some churches in the area, take several months off for visiting, and see what develops with SGM. Maybe the evaluators will say the entire board needs to resign and SGM (separate entity) be dismantled and each local church becomes autonomous. ( in your dreams, ha)

    Tell them you won’t consider coming back until they make financial restitution to Happymom and Noel, for all the counseling and time. That should go over real well. :D

  • Fried Fish

    Also want to clarify number 199 before I pass out in a pizza induced coma – IF you have kids, especially young ones – don’t stay and try to change the system. It won’t be worth the pain they will have to go through. And if you’re the type of person who wants to believe what they tell you and “think the best” – don’t stay either. It’s not worth the risk. Even if you are spin-resistant and strong, your tenure there may be short – ’cause frankly, they don’t like people like you. Just sayin’…

  • Sidney

    Fried Fish…haha….Thanks for the levity.

    Did you know that was a “girltalk blogs” statement? I believe it was Carolyn who said that she will teach her son to make ramen noodles and make his bed, but otherwise, the son-raising is left to the dad.

    I don’t even remember when that was, but it’s been discussed here.

    How sad.

    And, Mom, welcome to you!!!! :goodpost :welcome

  • Sidney

    Fried Fish…please find me a good pizza in Denver. Please oh please. Oh wait! And a good Philly Cheese Steak. In fact, if I could just have a Jerry’s Philly Cheese I’d be happy.

    Oh and MD crabs. I’d love some of those too. ……..


  • Fried Fish

    @Sidney #198 –

    Should I teach my son to cook more than ramen noodles?

    Most men already know that the answer to that one is “no” – we can live on ramen noodles, pizza and the occasional Chinese takeout.