A Powerful Note To C.J. Mahaney…And A Request From A Reporter
August 16, 2011 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
A couple of days ago, someone going by the handle of “Laconic Conservative” posted the following comment. I thought it was pretty powerful:
Dear CJ,
I wrote you a letter of thanks and encouragement 15 years ago. You told me later that you were going to keep it along with other special letters you had received over the years to share with your children as a legacy of your life. I certainly hope you receive and keep a copy of this letter for them to read as a comparison of my disappointment as well!
So, CJ, let’s talk man-to-man. You wrote that your 13 year friendship with Mark far outweighs the love and care that you believe can be provided for you by those who have loved you, worshipped with you and prayed with/for you over the past 30 years? What greater insult could you heap upon the members of Covenant Life Church than this slap in the face from the man who held us all to such a high standard of accountability? Well, so much for your preaching about your commitment to “The Local Church”. We now see the true weight of your commitment to CLC, your fellow church members or your own teaching. All the while we are shaking our heads ruefully.
CLC membership does not need to decide whether you are still qualified to lead. You disqualified yourself upon abandoning CLC for the sake of your own pride and vanity. You are obviously too embarrassed and ashamed to face accountability, corrective adjustment and your own reality. You should be ashamed! Looking back, it was a good thing Carolyn’s father told you at your wedding that he trusted Jesus! How insightfully prophetic was he? Do you ever wonder whether your father would still be so proud of you or would he simply shake his head ruefully?
1 Timothy 5:1 reads: “Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers” but you abandoned CLC and now disallow those who have loved you for years from either rebuking or encouraging you! We are the same age, and “brother”, since you will not allow us to restore you gently, we shall treat you as an unbeliever while we continue to simply shake our heads ruefully!
I am sickened to my stomach to remember the day you were preaching about Larry’s departure from SGM! In case you have forgotten, let recreate the moment for you, (and for everyone else who happened to miss your performance). You were fully engulfed in tears! Between sobs you asked that the microphone be turned off so you could “speak off the record”. Your words still ring in my heart through your sobs, “I would rather die than to do what Larry has done.” There was no explanation from you about what Larry had done and so you left CLC members sitting in our seats thinking, “WTF?” as we wondered what happened that would make you want to die?
Oh, yuck, that memory just made me throw up in my mouth . . . but just a little!
I praise God you preached for years to place our trust in our Sovereign Lord. Abandoning CLC has perfectly demonstrated that placing our trust in man will always result in disappointment and failure. I praise God that He does fulfill His promises and that my wife and I have taught our children to place ALL OF OUR FAITH in Him!
3 more short things . . .
1 – Christ’s finished work was not the Cross . . . the finished work was His resurrection! Everyone dies, but Christ’s death was meaningless unless he had overcome death!
2 – Yes, I too am a sinner, but I don’t dwell on it all the time anymore because I am a redeemed sinner. (SEE # 1 ABOVE)
3 – I have prayed for you at length. Please know that I forgive you just as Jesus would. But in my failures, I won’t trust you anymore. Thank you, CJ, once again, for demonstrating a lesson filled with so much life application. (SEE # 1 ABOVE)
—- From “Laconic Conservative”
————————————————–
Secondly, I received a request yesterday from a reporter at the Washington Post. She is interested in talking with those who are willing to go on the record, under their real names, and speak about their experiences with Sovereign Grace Ministries. This reporter and I have exchanged several emails, and we’ve come up with the following arrangement: if you would be willing to be interviewed, please email me, and I will forward your message on to her.
Many of you have in the past expressed wonder over the idea that the news media has not paid more attention to the SGM situation. People have often urged me to seek out reporters and try to get them interested in the story. Frankly – as I shared with the Washington Post person – I have always hesitated to pursue the secular media, as I think SGM’s issues are extremely nuanced. It’s always been my concern that any story would shortsightedly hone in on SGM’s conservative, Bible-based theology as the source of all the organization’s woes and completely miss the larger story, which is that a group that espouses essentially orthodox Christian beliefs can nonetheless redefine certain key terms and use social pressures and tactics straight out of thought-reform practices to end up functioning like a cult sometimes.
But I do believe that many of you have had experiences that are newsworthy, and I would strongly encourage anyone willing to be interviewed on the record to contact me at krisATsgmsurvivorsDOTcom.
I’ve been busy over the past couple of days and haven’t been able to participate here much. To “Friendly Observer” in the previous post – thanks for your kind words! Guy and I appreciate the encouragement.
A few thoughts…
I seem to have a dim memory of of a Post editor or reporter saying christians were “uneducated and easily led and controlled”. I forget the exact quote but the anti-christian bias was there.
The Washington Post? The Washington Times would probably do a better job. Better yet, Charisma Magazine, Christianity Today or any one of a dozen or so Christian magazines. Kris’comment about nuance is apropos.
As the saying goes… he may be an SOB but he’s “our” SOB.
I have this picture in my head of Swaggert crying saying “I have sinned.” on national TV when the secular media paid him no attention for years until he brought reproach to our Lord.
This might be the publc spanking Josh spoke of.
CJ, Gary, or John with reporters and cameras camped outside their doors asking for a quote concerning exCLCer’s letters every year for 20 years and why they were never answered or acknowledged them.
Reporters and cameras camped outside Fairfax asking about sexual abuse.
CJ (who is definately not camera shy) running in the house and slamming the door screaming “NO COMMENT!!” (This would be a pretty funny visual.)
CJ trying to de-gift Josh for mentioning the blogs.
These are just a few thoughts. In all seriousness, anyone who decides to go on the record please know that this paper is historically not in the “our” camp as christians. All of us believers here need to be in serious prayer for those who open up publically. Also make sure to keep a personal recording of any and all interviews.
I guess I’m a bit confused. The “sin” CJ was crying over was Larry’s son or the fact that Larry did not agree with the shift in doctrine? This is not how Paul exhorted pastors to be. How anyone can consider this man qualified to preach after all this is amazing. Great letter laconic.
Breezey said:
“Reporters and cameras camped outside Fairfax asking about sexual abuse.”
And Fairfax would send out their P.R. spin-master, V.H. to boast about their 32 year history of no child sex abuse happening at their building….leaving out all the pertinent information about how they actually treated victims and their families and did not warn families at risk. How many kids/parents unknowingly partied with a sex offender weeks after another conviction was handed down, it’s all those little details that V.H. conveniently left out of their family meeting.
The double speak continues well within the walls of SGM/Fairfax. Gossip and slander is ok as long as they are the ones doing it and presenting it as fact. Godly sorrow does not spin the truth and protect it’s reputation.
Breezey:
I wouldn’t assume that the Washington Post is biased against Christians, especially on some of these issues.
They ran an excellent series this spring about Vienna Presbyterian and the leadership’s approach to honesty about a youth pastor who was abusing teenage girls: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vienna-presbyterian-church-works-to-overcome-revelations-of-sexual-abuse/2011/03/30/AF3hNxQC_story.html
I thought it was really ironic, since that church is only a few miles from SGM Fairfax.
I would never trust the Washington Post or any other secular press to prevent a balanced view AT ALL. From previous experience with a small Florida newspaper, reporters will twist words say whatever they want to say and use it to slam Christians and/or Christianity. Just be careful.
Great letter Laconic! Maybe others could post letters to CJ as well… ??
Like “Alpologist,” I was also struck by this paragraph from “Laconic Conservative’s” letter:
Now that we have a behind-the-scenes view of PDI at that time, what with CJ’s coldly consulting lawyers to find out whether he could in effect blackmail Larry, and now that we have a better idea of what it was, exactly, that Larry did that was so displeasing to CJ, CJ’s remarks about Larry’s departure seems especially manipulative and deceptive. I’m surprised that anyone who was part of PDI at that time and who remembers this dramatic performance doesn’t share “Laconic’s” outrage at what was obviously a manipulative performance.
When will CJ stand up in front of the people and apologize to them for how he essentially lied in the way he characterized Larry’s departure?
Has anyone read the book (NOT the movie) “The Help”? Perhaps this is just the thing that would make SGM finally make the necessary core changes that need to be made since they obviously are either incapable or unwilling to do it themselves. Just a thought.
Laconic,
I appreciated your very real letter and your many sound theological comments. Paragraph 4 – so true and the Scripture reference is well applied. You are a true “brother” to CJ who spoke the truth in love. I pray your words are received by him as such.
happymom,
“Godly sorrow does not spin the truth and protect it’s reputation.” Well said. Obviously the work of the Spirit in those words. Thanks for your comment.
The sad thing is that when Charisma magazine wrote about CJ’s “season of reflection” (or, as Protestant Dame called it, his “season of deflection” :D ), they totally minimized the situation and obviously didn’t do their homework.
I have always had this concern that a liberal reporter would immediately get focused on something like SGM’s complementarianism and see all of SGM’s problems as flowing out of that. Or get hung up on SGM’s assertions that everything must be done “biblically,” and think SGM’s various weird obsessions (like the one about using only words that appear in the Bible to talk about life) are common to all churches with a high view of scripture…and that claiming to hold to a high view of scripture is what created SGM’s mess.
And then the real story – SGM’s cult-like methodologies, its authoritarianism, its view of itself as “the church that finally gets it right,” its desire to protect the organization’s image no matter what, because SGM leaders believe that promoting SGM is one and the same thing as promoting the gospel – that story would be missed.
And that would be unfortunate.
Oh my heavens, I am going to be sick all day…
I was fresh out of college, totally new to CLC when CJ gave those emotional histrionics about Larry, and I had completely forgotten it until now.
Lured in by the promise of humility and godliness, I watched and listened, and thought that he has so serious about godliness and must have really loved that man.
I love emoticons, but there is none that can capture my sentiments toward that man as I recount that visual and lay it along side of what I have read in his own emails asking his lawyer for counsel on how to blackmail Larry. I was sooo deceived. How does someone like Brian or Mike lay those two pieces of data side by side and side in favor of CJ?
Gadget — I saw an interesting parallel between “The Help” (book AND movie) with SGM, the blogs, etc. Thought of writing a book called “The Church” or “The Cult”, “The Preachers”, “The Flock” — something along those lines.
I say what I say in comment #10, but I also believe that it would be a great thing if the mainstream media were to get the SGM story at least somewhat right and present it in a way so that more people could understand.
Sadly, I think this sort of external pressure would do more to prompt real change within the SGM organization than anything else thus far.
Certainly, when it comes to how child sex abuse victims are handled, media attention would be the quickest way to ensure that SGM comes up with a new policy that addresses issues of mandatory reporting. I also think media attention would be the greatest motivator in preventing SGM pastors from ever again advocating for perpetrators.
I hope Laconic’s note :clap :clap :clap went directly to CJ as well as being posted here.
Kris, perhaps you could post links/copies of this particular reporter’s previous writing on religion? It might help people assess her typical ‘angle’. Thanks.
Speaking of advocating for perpetrators…
I received an email from someone yesterday who expressed dismay at the embarrassing negative attention being directed these days toward “Mr. A” of “exCLCer’s” story. This person basically defended the idea that “Mr. A” has a band comprised mostly of young people and (I’m putting this in my own words) expressed the sentiment that after so many years of staying clean, “Mr. A” ought to be allowed to move on with his life. This person asserted that “Mr. A” has always been very humble and open about his past…and implied that therefore, he has earned back some trust, to the point where it’s OK for him to have this band.
I wrote this in response:
Later, I realized I needed to add a couple of thoughts, so I wrote this person again with the following:
Finally, in connection with my comment #16, and then I’ll quit interrupting the flow of conversation here about the current topic, it occurred to me just how strange and mixed up it is for someone to seem to be more concerned about the “A” family’s embarrassment than about the potential for “Mr. A” to slip up with another victim.
Great thoughts Kris…I am one of those who has struggled with understanding what the ‘right way’ is for Mr. A to integrate back into society/church/(family life?). You raise very legitimate points.
Don’t put the members of CLC through anything else. They are hurting, wounded and fervently praying for revival and have been for months before this went public. They are demanding answers to hard questions from their leaders.
Every member has friends and neighbors they share the Lord with. Publicly discrediting them in the media, discredits their testimony. Don’t do that to them.
Eternity is still at stake.
This is SG business and needs be resolved by SG people, with the help of the outside Christian community.
These things need to be evaluated according to scripture. The church doesn’t turn to the world for wisdom.
Keep the media out of it.
Speaking of Scripture–I know this is common sense–but does anyone know of any Scriptures which speak to the common sense idea that a former alcoholic shouldn’t hang out at a bar?
Please hear me: I’m not saying I need Scripture to validate this common sense idea. But if you are aware of any Scriptures pertinent to addicts and helping them live life once they “overcome” their addiction, I’d be curious to know what they are.
a yellow flag comes to mind (note I did not say red)…
I wouldn’t be so concerned that it was the Post – I would be more concerned with the expertise, track record, background, reputation and character of the reporter(s) involved. Do they have a reputation for being fair and balanced? Do they report the facts, or slant the story toward the sensational? Do they have an understanding of orthodox Christianity (and see it in a positive light) and are they able to recognize those “nuances” Kris is talking about?
If the story never gets any continuing coverage, are you willing to allow a few paragraphs of content, of this reporter’s choosing, define how a potential audience of millions experiences the story of SGM?
I’d want to make very sure it was a reporter I could trust…
I think the response tonight at the CLC Family Mtg. in regards to the sex abuse “stories” will be very telling…if there is spin and NOT honest dealing, that very spin could become a catalyst for a variety of abused people to come forward. I would so hate to see it transpire into a media circus! I will be praying for Josh today.
Kris 16/17: BINGO. Thank you for posting that. I am thinking our priorities as Christians, parents, adults, frickin human beings should be to #1 protect children #2 allow criminals to face natural consequences! All of this other stuff (slander? gossip? embarrassment? a good recent record?) clouds the issue.
If I were currently an SGM member, I’d be distancing myself from this group fast.
“For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.”
Luke 8:17
@just sayin’:
I am troubled by the idea that allowing the truth about PDI/SGM’s many problems over the years will “discredit the testimony” of CLC members to their neighbors and friends.
If their testimony is about SGM and CLC, well, I suppose it will be discredited, and it should. I realized long ago that I could not invite anyone to visit the SGM church we attend. No way.
But if their testimony is about Jesus, it cannot be discredited. God is bigger than all that is going on with SGM, and He is bringing all this to light.
We are not the ones “doing this to them.” The leaders they placed themselves under are the ones who have “done this to them.”
And not all pain is to be avoided.
Maybe it’s time for some key people from this site to meet with CJ. They can tell him that if he doesn’t retire from Christian ministry permanently then they will go public (to this newspaper) with details of the indiscretions of his child (SGM being his offspring). I’m sure he’ll understand that kind of offer.
And I cannot agree that “this is SG business and needs to be resolved by SG people.” That attitude has kept all this in darkness for so long. That attitude has kept wounded people imprisoned.
This is human business and needs to be brought into the light of God. Whether the Washington Post is part of that, or not.
just saying said:
“Publicly discrediting them in the media, discredits their testimony. Don’t do that to them.”
How is exposing the truth discrediting them? DON’T DO THAT TO THEM? Don’t you think that emotionally torturing the victims of sex abuse is slightly discrediting the Gospel they preach?
They have brought this on THEMSELVES.
Guy and Kris,
I continue to be amazed by the deep wisdom that God has given you. Thank you for all the time you take to express that wisdom here. I am truly in awe of God and how He is using this blog to reveal truth. It reminds me of Romans 12:2 “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”
Kris, your wisdom #16 is so sound. I know that for me personally, in the areas of my life where I have fallen to temptation and sinned, I still steer clear of those areas of temptation and instead minister to others who are struggling with similar temptations or histories of similar sin struggles. God has shown me that who better to reach out and help someone in sin than one who understands the power that that particular sin or temptation can have over them than one who has walked the same path and has seen God overcome the power of that sin in their own life. Just a thought…
I think involving the secular media wouldn’t help, but would hurt what’s going on. Kris, in comment #13, you wrote:
“I also believe that it would be a great thing if the mainstream media were to get the SGM story at least somewhat right and present it in a way so that more people could understand.”
I wonder, why do we need the media to try to present a clearer message than is already being presented, and more importantly, why do we need MORE people to understand? I think enough people, who have been a part of SGM understand the problem. Do we need the secular media to come in and raise our flag of reform? To champion our cause? I hope not. If we, as the family of God cannot bring about repentance and change, no matter how long it takes, with prayer, appeals, etc., then we need to stop the fight and move on. Yes, God could use the pressure of the media to bring people to their knees, and bring about real change, but I think it should be limited to the “christian” media, and those that would even have somewhat of our best interests at heart. The Post won’t have this in mind while they take another swipe at Christianity and how useless or silly it all is.
Please, let’s continue to have somewhat of a civil protest here, and keep it “within the family” to resolve.
Luna Moth,
Comments #24 & 26. :goodpost :goodpost :goodpost
Patrick Henderson said:
Mr. Henderson, I see that God has used secular means to bring about His purposes–such as King Cyrus and King Nebuchadnezzar.
And I say again, “protecting” and keeping everything “in-house” is likely to continue the cover-ups, while the victims’ hope strangles in darkness.
God does not need our protection.
happymom, thank you.
For just saying… – As I look through the table of contents in the Bible I note that Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Acts are all what we call “history”. But they were open records written during the times they happened. These weren’t diaries read and published after the person was dead. Jeremiah crying before Israel to repent before judgment was open and public before the entire nation. There were also scathing rebukes from prophets like Nathan to David who was the king. We call it today speaking truth to power. God used a “secular” source, Nebuchadnezzar to publicly rebuke Israel before all the nations of the world. He did the same thing 500 years later in 70 A.D. when Titus and the Roman 10th legion wiped out Israel and scattered them all over the world. God often uses the secular world to accomplish purification of His people. The church has always been its best under persecution. A white hot fire burns off the dross and leaves the pure gold.
This blog and others was a constant cry publicly that was argued about behind closed doors with the founding leader saying ignore it. So God had to do something pretty drastic to get his attention. Brent’s papers being published publicly was pretty drastic. Apparently he’s still not listening so maybe God is trying to turn the fire up a little higher. Josh used the term “publicly spanked”. Maybe just the “christian world” isn’t enough to get his attention. Think God likes to “spank” His children? Do you like to spank yours? LC’s open letter says it all.
@HappyMom #27
I am in no way referring to the leaders in the church that have brought this disgrace upon themselves and all they have taught to be true.
I believe the leaders are being discredited through this painful process…and should be.
I’m referring to little lady loves-the-Lord that knew nothing about it.
I know my relatives would use a news story like that to reject everything we’ve ever told them about God and his love. They would jump at that.
It’s hard enough for us as victims to separate what the church did to us from God. I don’t believe non-believers who don’t know God’s love can find it looking through glasses covered in this awful mess.
It’s Christ’s reputation we need to protect.
In answer to the above question…”why do we need the media to try to present a clearer message than is already being presented?”
I am personally dissatisfied with their response to the message already being presented. I don’t feel they are listening well enough, and I think the added public pressure could be helpful, that is, as Kris said, if they report is accurately, and not just about weird obssessions or biblical lingo.
Should they slander christianity by making generalizations about christianity based on sgm’s errors, God is big enough to handle that. God can even use those errors in reporting to bring salvation, or sanctification or whatever He wants to do.
That said, I am not yet ready to state that I am entirely for the idea of the Post’s involvement.
Kris, you are always welcome to interrupt any thread at any time, your insights are so helpful.
Thank you, Kris, for your wise words and response (post#16). :goodpost :clap :clap
All,
A few weeks back I posted that I was meeting with the first of my offenders with SGM. This thread gives me the appropriate means to post an update. One thing this journey has taught me is I have nothing to fear for I serve a BIG God!
To my knowledge I’m one of a few that SGM is working with through a reconciliation process and I do have the support of my church which is CHBC. God does have a sense of humor in the playing out of events. I made sure we set expectations on how the meeting would be conducted and I offered to meet at CLC. So last week as the Worship Conference occurred I was meeting with one of the pastors and a moderator, discussing specific actions and them asking for my forgiveness. I was not alone. The spirit of our Lord was with me.
The pastor was specific in the sins against me and humble in heart asking for my forgiveness. I know that we are at different places in our journey with SGM and in no way do I intent to minimize the hurt you feel. Even today even though God has healed me for the lack of care and shunning I received from those who once expressed such love and devotion, I still feel the pain. Yet, I’m reminded of the pain my sin must have caused our Savior. In no way am I spinning for I was ‘spun’, but those were hurt know what I speak of. How can I not demonstrate the redemptive nature of God character to one another. For He did redeem us from sin in Christ!!
Recently someone posted (my attempt to block quote)
I have thought and prayed about this, since I do fit your category. I hope that I would be a reminder to CJ that His grace is sufficient. The same Lord who met me in my time of need can meet him in his time.
No notes were taken. No recording devices were used. It was just two brothers in Christ coming to terms with sinful actions with one another. Granted this was the first of a series of meetings that I will be going through because even though I have MASSIVE issues with their polity, I believe God is greater than our sin for He overcame it. I will keep you updated on the progress of the other meetings.
I implore you before seeking a reporter seek to reconcile those who sinned against you. I realize you may have tried this before as I did, but the tide is changing. I do believe the culture of SGM needs a massive overhaul. When I left years ago I told one pastor, I can forgive the offenses of the pastors it the culture I can’t deal with. I believe I’m better off outside the church than in it.
Personally a story of forgiveness and redemption in the Post would bring greater glory to our Father than an expose of all our faults. I have a degree in Broadcasting. I’m not saying all reporters are the same, but most lean towards the liberal side and no one is objective. I appeal for all of us to pray before seeking what we deem as justice and instead play the grace card for in our own lives God has give us much grace.
From what Kris posted, it looks as though the reporter contacted HER, not the other way around.
This isn’t a question as to whether or not “we” should involve the press. Sounds like they’re already interested and/or involved. Anybody could write a pretty decent article after simply reading the blogs, Brent’s documents, SGM’s blogs, etc, which are openly posted on the internet.
When my situation first occurred, I had the idea that if I told anyone it would discredit the name of Jesus Christ. Every abuser — physical, sexual, spiritual, or otherwise — banks on the idea that their victims will not tell anyone what happened to them. The hyper-authoritarian guys out there need to know that their deeds will not remain dirty little family secrets.
So far, the Christian press has soft-pedaled or ignored the issues w/ CJ and SGM, apparently cowed by the posturings of the Big Dog defenders. I do NOT wish to see the dirty laundry of SGM hung out to dry by a hostile secular press. But who’s to say it will automatically be hostile? Maybe not. The reports about Vienna Presbyterian were admirable — that church has set a precedent that SGM would do well to follow. If it had not been for reports by the secular press, most of us would never have known about it.
Truth is truth. And we don’t have to worry about the Church — the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
just sayin’,
I disagree that we need to protect Christ’s reputation.
His is the Name above all names, and He will protect His own reputation.
Trying to “protect the reputation” of Christ (or, of the SGM church) is what got so many people into such horrible situations!!
Somehow, people will need to see that Jesus is the only real One we can trust, even when people who claim to be His act like–stink. But I will let Him be in charge of clarifying things for them.
I think people sometimes have to reject the false aspects of the church in order to come to Him alone.
Just Saying said
At the heart of this debate on whether people should share their stories or not is determining whether the SGM machine represents the church Christ founded. While there are members who are Christians who attend, SGM is more like a cult than a church. Cults typically skew a person’s understanding of Christ.
C.J. gave a sermon he dubbed The Happiest Place on Earth and said that when everyone stands before Christ for the first time, they will all be focused on thanking Christ for their pastors. That was an astonishing statement. It is not Biblical. His words threw the deserved spotlight off of our Lord onto the praise of the pastors in SGM’s hierarchy. This is blasphemous.
If the secular media picks up on the stories here, they will be reporting on a cult, not the church of Christ.
And if masses of people began exiting SGM this week, this would speak very loudly to those outside looking in. It would tell them that true Christians don’t put up with this type of circus and they find healthier places to worship elsewhere. I would suggest that those who have left also get in touch with the media so they can show that there is a way out of cults (or fringe groups) like this one. There is hope and it does not lie in fixing a cult.
The media will get hold of this no matter what people here do. It’s a growing story and isn’t going away.
Sorry….I messed up my blockquote….the part that is further indented is not a quote, but it is my words. Dang! Failure on the phone.
I think the Washington Post idea is great. Because….
1. It would reach the DC area, including former CLC members
2. It wouldn’t be biased, as a Christian publication would be
3. They have done many articles on churches and church issues. One that I saw recently related to the mega church right by Fed Ex Field, headed by the Peebles family. The coverage was balanced, thorough and did not have any kind of anti-Christian feel. Check out
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/friends-say-jericho-founder-questioned-sons-readiness-to-head-ministry-in-landover/2011/07/25/gIQA9jCToI_story.html
A Washington Post article might be the best way for the victims to have a voice…
Also, people can remain anonymous for this stuff, no victims or their families need to ever say their names. Isn’t that the case for vicitms of sexual crimes in general?
:clap
Nickname said:
Yep, this is true. The reporter contacted Kris via email (from the blog) and stated that she “had received numerous emails” from people about the situation at SGM. Kris responded to her by simply stating that she would let folks know about the offer to talk. We (Kris and I) are not interested in commenting to the press about this issue, as we are simply providing a forum for survivors.
luna,
we may not need to “protect” christ’s reputation – he is God and can do that on his own – but aren’t we supposed to represent Christ though? As Christians, we represent Christ, the one we worship and devote our lives to. Non christians however, cannot understand this.
If some non-christian friends of mine – who already think I’m looney for believing in God – found out the church I’ve attended is doing all of these things and not representing Christ well, that would reflect on me and my believeability. Even though I haven’t been involved in the mistakes of the pastors, they would probably see it as yet another reason not to believe me, and it would be yet another knock back in my witness to them.
One Christian makes a mistake, it reflects badly on all Christians in the eyes of the world. Think back to the Gandhi quote…
The funny thing is, I don’t really mind if it gets out to the Washington Post, I feel like it’s publicized already and so many resources have backed up CJ, we need to see another side. But I do agree with Kris’ concerns of them getting mixed up with the wrong issues. It’ll be interesting to see where this goes.
Yellow – I don’t think we can say it wouldn’t be biased though. The Post is clearly biased. They just wouldn’t have the normal bias we’ve seen every where else.
Yellow, not anonymous. Read Kris’ post.
It’s just the beginning,
I think about how much King David wanted to build the temple for God. God said no because of David’s horrific sinfulness of shedding much blood. We can only speculate as to why God would ‘punish’ David that way. My speculation is that at the very least David’s reputation of sin of that magnitude and him being connected to the ‘church’ in such a visible way could hurt the growth of God’s kingdom by the continual cries of his victims. What I do not see scriptures supporting is any condemnation by God for the victims of violent crimes crying out for justice and future protection. Rather I see scripture that supports social advocacy. So for every ‘gossip’ scripture that a survivor blog critic uses I can counter it with a survivor blog supporting scripture. Reporting crimes and warning others of past crimes has nothing to do with unforgiveness, gossip, slander or the vengeance that God says is his alone. Sexual violation against a minor is always a violent crime. And when it is perpetrated by a religious person it does violence to the kingdom of God and the world suffers for it also. It makes me sick to read all the constant teachings against girls causing boys to sin by their dress or demeanor but then when children have been so horribly sinned against, the church is focussing on forgiveness of the perps to the point of concerned people…….you just really don’t know how many sins that perp, especially if the perp was/is a religious person has caused the victim to commit in their future out of trying to kill the pain, or how much sin the leaders have caused by their sinful coverups.
We have a subcontracting business. We have employees that have ‘records’. We recently did a job for a government agency that would not allow any worker with even the slightest record ever, even a juvenile misdemeanor to be on the job. We could hardly believe it, our crew was reduced to one employee. How many of our guys wanted to scream unfair!
Speaking of addictions. God delivered me from a nicotine addiction 20 years ago. But I certainly know better than to hang around a few packs of Marlborough Light 100’s… just sayin’ :trainwreck
Is anyone here naive enough to believe that this debacle can be kept away from the secular media?
When we Christians try to hide our mistakes, we only maximize them to those outside. It’s best to speak the truth, show humility and show that we’re no longer drinking the cult’s Kool-Aid.
Then and only then, is Christ glorified.
I wonder if HE really sent this letter to C.J. or if He just posted it here to stir all you peoples anger against CLC and C.J.Its probably time to get over all these offences, Jesus is coming soon, and ANGRY people will be left on earth. Don`t get mad GET GLAD. :word :welcome