It appears that C.J. Mahaney and all the people who followed him to Louisville, Kentucky are just about ready to launch their new church, Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville. You can view a video of a pre-launch Sunday meeting here.
We’ve already been discussing Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville in the comments of the previous post, where I started to say this:
It strikes me that there’s something especially “off” about SGM’s/CJ’s decision to plant an SGM church in Louisville in the way they have gone about it. Once again, I don’t understand why it feels like so many in the larger Christian world aren’t seeing this.
I mean, in the rest of non-SGM Christianity, new churches typically do not spring up whole and already completely functioning with a core of old-timers transplanted from another geographical location. No. Most of the time, a new church will start with a small group of people who are already part of the community where the church is to be located. They may or may not start out with a pastor who is in charge. Often they won’t have a full-time dedicated paid staff pastor for quite some time.
SGM’s approach to church-planting is unusual in many respects. This is a piece of a post from 2009, but it’s still true for the Louisville church:
From time to time, folks have come around here and made statements about how being part of a Sovereign Grace Ministries congregation is the closest thing you can get to experiencing the ”New Testament church.” I’m not sure if that’s because they believe that C.J. Mahaney is a true apostle (many SGM members do think so), or if they “have all things in common,” or what, exactly, but SGM seems to have done a good job of convincing folks that their “family of churches” is run in a way that most closely aligns with the churches of the Bible.
But really, it seems to me that SGM is run much more like a big corporation than the church at Corinth…more like McDonald’s than Macedonia.
SGM has a franchise approach to building churches. And I believe this approach is deliberate, or, as they’d say in SGMville, intentional. I mean, think about how a church plant works. SGM does not just send out a pastor or two to a new location, where they start from the ground up, gathering people from the new community to form the congregation.
No, it’s my understanding that they find several willing families who are already completely sold out to the SGM way of doing things. These families have been conditioned to view church planting as missionary work. Nevermind that SGM church plants typically take place in already-church-saturated whitebread suburbs – SGM teaches that planting more SGM churches is how they “spread the Gospel.”
So from the “sending” church, leaders find families who are so totally sold out to SGM that they have bought into the idea of promoting SGM as “missions work.” These families then endure a pretty stringent “vetting” process to determine if they are up to the task. The group of church planting families bond together in planning meetings, through the shared hardships of selling homes, quitting or switching jobs, and leaving all their other friends and family in the area.
By the time the new church opens its doors for its first meeting, the group of “sent” families is already a tight little community, with a shared history, the knowledge that they were considered “good enough” for the high privilege of being sent in the first place, and the shared experiences of the relocation process. Moreover, as strangers in a strange land, so to speak, they’ve become even more dependent on their SGM circle of friends for community.
Their loyalty to the SGM brand is as high as it could get. They see the new church as “spreading the Gospel.” They simply cannot risk alienating anyone IN the new church, since those folks are basically all they have. So even if there would be problems, they can’t acknowledge them in the slightest. Then their loyalty is affirmed through the natural satisfaction that comes from working hard on something with a group, and watching that thing succeed and grow.
And then…what does an outsider, a visitor, see, when he arrives at the new church plant?
He doesn’t see what is typical of a non-SGM new church. If someone attends a “normal” non-SGM new church, he will see a bunch of other strangers, possibly some folks that he already knows from the community, many of whom are still basically strangers to one another.
But if he goes to a new SGM church, he’ll walk into the midst of an extremely tight, VERY bonded community, a community from another geographical location, typically with no real connections to the city (suburb) where they are now.
If this hypothetical visitor likes what he sees at the new SGM church, what is he going to do?
Well, because of the nature of human psychology, he will work at fitting in to the status quo. He will look to the church’s established members and model himself, his behavior and his attitudes, after them. He will take on the group’s values. Frequently within SGM, visitors are already somewhat sold out to the SGM way, having researched the “family of churches” ahead of time or having been ministered to by CJ’s or Josh’s writings, or an SGM conference or SGM music. So they’ll be even more primed to want to fit in and assimilate.
In an SGM church plant, there is almost NO WAY for the new SGM church to reflect anything but SGM culture. The group of founding families has brought with them all the cultural mores from their previous location, and the visitors who get added to the group are simply prone to mimic and copy what’s aleady going on in the group that they want to join. If you trace back all the church plants around the country, they all have roots in CLC. Members from CLC got sent to other church plants, which in turn sent their own people out to other locations…and so on, and so on.
So with the way that SGM plants churches, they are assured of strong brand identity. The families who are “sent” will have extremely high brand loyalty, particularly for practical reasons – because of the bonding experiences of having gone through the same relocation pains as the others in the group, and because they NEED the group, since otherwise they’d be total strangers in a brand-new place. These families will then influence any NEW families far more strongly than the visitors would influence the “sent” group. In other words, the people in the new community become assimilated and absorb SGM’s culture, rather than the other way around.
This is why SGM is so homogenous. This is why SGM is so much more of a denomination than actual denominations. Actually, this is why SGM is more like a franchise than a “family of churches.”
Brand development…brand loyalty…all in the name of the supposed “gospel.” The “gospel” of SGM.
When you factor in the glossed-over but nonetheless acrimonious circumstances of CJ’s exit from CLC, the Louisville church plant really seems like it ought to turn off the very people it is aiming to attract. Yeah, sure, maybe there’s the CJ Mahaney celebrity draw. But is CJ really ready to come down from the lofty perch where he has resided for so many years and actually roll up his sleeves and get down and dirty to interact with the unwashed masses the way he’ll need to in order to be a true pastor to people? Will CJ even be able to keep up the pace of a weekly preaching schedule? Will his occasional appearances, where he’ll probably just recycle some of his Golden Oldies, be enough of a lure? Will the people of Kentucky be ready for what CJ really believes about pastoral authority?
And are the people who’d go just to hear CJ the sort of people who can be transitioned into the loyal paying customers tithing members that this SGM church is going to very quickly need in order to sustain the sort of payroll expenditures that the likes of CJ and Bob K and the Mahaney sons-in-law will require to maintain the beachfront vacation/Pinterest lifestyles to which they’ve become accustomed?
Is the SGM brand still that viable after all that has transpired over the past year or so?
It’s going to be interesting to find out.
October 2nd, 2012 at 9:11 am
Kris,
I think that if people are still in pain, that means there is still healing that needs to happen.
In PDI/SGM the leaders would make us ashamed of being still in pain. They accused us of “bitterness,” and really that was seen as about the worst sin.
But I believe healing takes time. Jesus isn’t ashamed of our pain. He’s not saying, “Didn’t we already deal with this? Haven’t you realized…” He knows we haven’t because we can’t, not yet.
I don’t think it’s a matter of people needing to turn away from the pain and “move on.” Sometimes the hidden wounds need to be brought to light and the pain needs to be acknowledged.
Look at the Psalms. Do you remember one where it says, “But I just need to stop thinking about this and forgive that guy”? And I don’t remember one where the Lord ever rebukes the Psalmist for expressing his (or her!) pain.
So, Wizer, if you are still here and still feeling pain and frustration--I believe it takes time, and being here can be part of the process. Knowing that other people “get it,” knowing that you’re heard--oh, it’s priceless.
I have more thoughts, I’ll try to write more later.
October 2nd, 2012 at 9:33 am
Longtime lurker, first time poster.
We have just recently left after almost 2 decades, including being part of a church plant. We have had many friends leave in the past and not understood what they went through. We were blind. Thank God, He removed the scales from our eyes over the past year. I am hesitant to share our story yet as I do have family still in the church. I am experiencing a wonderful nearness to Jesus again after being dry and feeling condemned for so long.
I have been seeking out others I knew who left and asking forgiveness because I did not, could not support them properly in my own denominational pride. I wrongfully thought they were slandering and gossiping. I was wrong about you all here at the blogs too. Please forgive me.
I believe God has been bringing discipline to SGM and all the local churches in His kindness. But it seems like they want to hurry up and move on from all that has happened in the last year. We have spoken to pastors and I see a practical application of preaching more grace, but there is no confession, no corporate admission of wrong. I believe they are missing out on an amazing work of the Lord. Changing polity, teaching focus, caregroup structure, etc. all may be good and necessary, but without conviction by the Holy Spirit bringing godly sorrow and repentance I don’t think the changes will have a long term effect.
Thank you for this site, I am sad to say I have learned more here about what is going on in my church than in my own church.
October 2nd, 2012 at 9:58 am
I don’t mean to harp on this, but the more I think about it, the more it strikes me that what I wrote in my comment #249 could be true.
It could very well be true that the automatic condemnation of discussing and analyzing past hurts and wrongs is itself a remnant of SGM’s dysfunction, a mindset taught to people as part of leadership’s general bias against allowing themselves to be examined critically, without the automatic “believe the best” bias in place.
Let me be clear -- I’m not saying that this is something that SGM pastors do consciously, for self-serving purposes. I think it could be something that might sometimes be done consciously, for self-serving purposes. But I think the majority of pastors are probably sincere, well-meaning men who promote the “believe-the-best, don’t-think-analytically-if-it-means-negatively” mentality because they honestly believe that it is what the Bible wants them to do. It is what they themselves have been taught by their superiors. Unthinking, uncritical acceptance of their superiors’ decisions and ideas is something that has always been required of them -- so it is what they believe they must require of others. To suggest the possibility that a leader might be wrong is entering risky territory.
But just because well-meaning, well-intended men teach something does not mean that it is necessarily correct or healthy…or that it is something that won’t be used by some people for self-serving, self-protecting purposes. Training people to think that any examination of the past will automatically lead to bitterness -- well, it seems to me that this practice has empowered a lot of men to keep doing what they’re doing, and a lot of people to not really be able to pick out what it is that needs to change.
It’s always been funny to me, to observe some longtime SGMers’ assumptions about this site and how what goes on here simply must mean that we are all in sinful bitterness. It’s not necesarily sinful bitterness, to examine the past and figure out what was wrong and where we went off the rails in terms of what we believed, how we were misled, and how we should not have followed. Oftentimes it’s very healthy.
Doing so -- coming to an understanding of why we were attracted to SGM and what went wrong for us -- can help us move past the pain. More importantly, it can help us avoid making similar mistakes in the future.
October 2nd, 2012 at 10:07 am
Kris said:
I agree, it seems to almost be a trained or cultural reaction within SGM whenever someone points something out. Look at what Harvey came down and said when it was discovered that Gene Emerson had withheld the truth for over 10 years. Harvey talked about the “tyranny of the aggrieved.”
It is almost as if they saying that someone who been lied to doesn’t even have a right to be angry or upset about it. If a wife found out her husband was having an affair it would be normal for her to be upset about it and one shouldn’t call it the “tyranny of the aggrieved” or being “bitter.” People also have a normal reaction of being upset when the found out that C.J. Mahaney didn’t practice a lot of what he taught and that C.J. Mahaney blackmailed Larry Tomczak and withheld the truth for over 10 years.
Like you said in a later comment it is more something leaders have been trained or a learned behavior rather then it being a strategem to deflect criticism.
October 2nd, 2012 at 10:11 am
JoyfulandFree -
Thanks for the comment, and welcome. I’m glad you have found something helpful here.
October 2nd, 2012 at 10:18 am
Although I am an SGM outsider (never put one foot in an SGM church; didn’t even know the name C.J. Mahaney until last July), following this story and its background has been fascinating and instructive. Even more so now that SGCL has set up shop almost literally across the street from my own church! Over the past 15 months, through reading Brent’s docs and the stories and perspectives here and at Refuge, I have noticed that a common thread in what has happened to SGM (and to many other human institutions -- secular and religious both) is security blanket death grip on CONTROL.
Here’s what I mean. The desire in Christians for doctrinal purity is nothing new or even unusual. I would even say that it can have roots in a very good place: the desire to find out what is true and right and to conform our beliefs accordingly. Where this can go awry is in believing that a “perfect” doctrinal structure is not only attainable, but that a “perfect” conformity to that “perfect” doctrine will result in “perfect” outcomes. This has seemingly been a hallmark of the SGM experience. The belief that SGM has the “best” way to worship, to preach, to raise children, to educate those children, to date…er…court, to deal with mental illness, to deal with relational conflict, etc. is foundational SGM mythology. If I remember correctly, the whole impetus for beginning the PDI/SGM enterprise was to recreate, in every way possible, the church of Acts. That is, we will try come up with a church formula that will make us a carbon copy of what we believe is the “best possible” church. That’s seemingly not a bad motivation, but already a subtle temptation is present -- the temptation to believe that a) we can know and implement what is necessary to have such a church, and b) to lose focus on God’s vision for the church and focus instead on perfecting and maintaining the system we have created. I think it is obvious that a) is already a rather dicey proposition, but that SGM has fallen prey to b) is at this point not even debatable. And what is inherent with b) is that you are no longer -- as individuals in leadership or as an institution -- putting your faith in God and are instead putting your faith in the system you have created.
At this point I would say that C.J. and many in SGM leadership are in many ways no longer able to distinguish between the God they claim to worship and the SGM system they have built. I realize that is a very strong statement, but I think it is helpful in explaining some of the seemingly bizarre statements and behavior they have exhibited in the past year. God has blessed SGM, God is IN SGM; therefore we must protect SGM for the sake and glory of God. Here is where we see the belief that WE MUST NOT LOSE CONTROL in all its ugliness. We see where a system that by design is intended to control what its adherents believe and how they will live and what results should be present in their lives culminates in the belief by leadership that they must maintain control over every aspect of the institution (control over the message, control over perceptions, control over EVERYTHING) or the whole thing will fall apart like a house of cards. For example, why else would the breach with CLC and ensuing move to Louisville have happened so quickly? Once CLC leadership showed signs of dissenting from the party line, C.J. and the SGM board perceived that immediate action was necessary to maintain control over the organization. I know many here at Survivors would perceive C.J. to be a cynical, Machiavellian figure (and I do think there is a lot of truth to that), I think what is even more elemental to C.J. is that he honestly believes that his system is perfect and that he is doing God’s will. He doesn’t perceive his (rather obvious) hypocrisy because he, perhaps more so than anyone else in SGM, has been drinking the Kool-Aid for 30+ years. If you attack SGM you attack C.J. and vice versa, and if you attack SGM and C.J. you are attacking God’s church and God’s messenger. All in all a terrible place for the man and his followers to be. But I think it explains why they have done and said things over the past 15 months that are almost jaw-droppingly ridiculous.
I will close with a passage from Isaiah 30 that I think would be helpful to C.J. and to SGM in general. The whole chapter of Isaiah 30 is a good reminder for any of us about the danger of putting our trust in human strength and human systems instead of on the person of Jesus Christ, and I think that is where SGM finds itself.
This is what the Sovereign Lord, the Holy One of Israel, says:
“In repentance and rest is your salvation,
in quietness and trust is your strength,
but you would have none of it.
You said, ‘No, we will flee on horses.’
Therefore you will flee!
You said, ‘We will ride off on swift horses.’
Therefore your pursuers will be swift!…
Yet the Lord longs to be gracious to you;
he rises to show you compassion.
For the Lord is a God of justice.
Blessed are all who wait for him! -- Isaiah 30:15-16,18
October 2nd, 2012 at 10:29 am
Steve240,
You said “it is more something leaders have been trained or a learned behavior rather then it being a strategem to deflect criticism.”
SGM Pastors have been learning and teaching UNBIBLICAL behaviors for decades. Not ones that grab headlines, but ones that slowly eat away at an individual’s freedom in the Lord. Legalism has crept in the doors of SGM churches everywhere. It’s learned behavior. It’s sinful. It needs to be repented of.
SGM Pastors need to stand up and reflect BIBLICAL teaching of leadership, not what has been taught throughout SGM.
Pastors … Call out CJ Mahaney PUBLICALLY! Like Paul did in numerous epistles to men who strayed from God’s pure and simple Word.
You are ENABLING CJ Mahaney with your silence.
Brent did a GREAT job of calling out CJ for his sins. And in doing so it actually gave Mahaney pause to begin a path of repentance.
Mahaney didn’t complete that path and in actually ran the otherway after getting unwise council and because PASTORS WITHIN SGM DID NOT PUBLICALLY Call him out on his sins!
You should be ashamed!
Repent and listen to the Holy Spirit speak to you! Be strong. Be Courageous. Be like Paul and fight for the pureness of the gospel. Don’t fight for SGM. Don’t fight for CJ. Fight for Jesus!
October 2nd, 2012 at 10:39 am
Craig #256 — What an appropriate passage and reminder from scripture, at the end of your comment. Thanks so much.
October 2nd, 2012 at 12:29 pm
“Come Unto Me All You Who Are Heavy Laden, And I Will Give You Rest…”?
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HowDee YaAll
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hmmm…
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Datz my Jesus!
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Hey, Wizer, datz your Jesus too!
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(never mind bout dem other folk’s jesus.)
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juz make sure “Youze got da right one, baby!”
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maybe you should get out and find a study where folk care bout each odder. Give it a go.
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Healthy folk likez ta laugh. find um, and laugh too.
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Sopy 101: “Life is too short and dar is never an end to da Bozo’s” -snicker-
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maybe folk care, maybe day don’t…no madder.
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but you aughta’ care bout youze self…no madda what!
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f-o-r-g-e-t da Bozos’, ya hear?
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…Long may you run!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nszR0tfp4Es&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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(grin)
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hahahahahahaha
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S㋡py
October 2nd, 2012 at 1:25 pm
Craig 256
Welcome and thanks for your very cogent analysis. I find it so encouraging that CG will not be able to hide in L’ville and that, there are even more down there, who recognize his guile.
It is ironic, but Larry Tomczak once warned us all that, ‘Self deception is our worst enemy!” Amazingly, CJ has fallen into that time and, time again.
Now he calls the church split he initiated, a ‘church plant’ and used many other weasel words in an effort to cover-up his white knuckle control over SGM and SGML.
I will pray for courage for you who worship ‘just across the street’ from him in L’ville, to continue to address his rebellion and deceit. I also hope there are many more wise souls who will avoid coming under the influence of SGM.
October 2nd, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Craig…that was an excellent analysis. Thank you for an insightful post.
Wizer 244….interesting question. I have asked myself many times why I am still here. I could care less about SGM, I mean, I feel bad for the folks in it who are starting to see the light, I feel bad for the victims, and so forth, but I have no personal pain and don’t really care about what the leaders still left do or don’t do. I think the whole thing is an Ichabod/Ishmael at this point. Flesh not spirit and the glory is gone. I was glad to get out and go on to our next very good church, so for me there was relief to be gone from the top heavy CJ worship thing.
For me, what gets to me on a deep gut level, and I still don’t think I’ve processed it although I am over the pain of it, is watching Grudem and Piper and Ferguson and people like that either say nothing or openly support CJ. I still am baffled. I am very Reformed in theology, I believe all the gifts of the spirit still operate today, I believe in male leadership and believer baptism….I suppose we are the perfect people for SGM when it comes to doctrine. And I see thousands of younger people getting into Reformed theology and not accepting cessationism, and who is the national “brand name” for such a position? SGM, Piper, Grudem. ( maybe Acts 29 to some extent as well)
I’ve read enough to know that there must be some of the birds of a feather syndrome operating, so I have no trouble believing reports that Mohler can be harshly authoritarian. I’ll guess Dever has big issues. For me the biggest pain was having to take Piper off the pedestal. That was as hard as anything related to SGM. What an anointed preacher, God has used him so much. But off the pedestal he had to come.
It has forced me to go back to Romans 12, Eph 4. Leadership is only one gift. Teaching is a gift ministry in Eph 4. Gifts, only gifts. The vessels can be very flawed. Carl Trueman is a genius, but genius didn’t produce wisdom when it comes to CJ. AoR…they supposedly have all the Peacemaker stuff down cold and what was the result? Wow was that a cynicism moment! Why? Because I just assumed Kober would have wisdom and see the light due to his training. Another pedestal.
I see this blog, and the ongoing thinking it makes me do, as preparation for the days ahead. So much deception out there. So many needy people wanting father figures. So many people with inferiority complexes swallowing their own spirit led bibical discernment. So many “I am superior” control freaks. Pedophiles in the church. Everybody looking for a formula for perfect kids and marriage and churches. No depending on God. Celebrity preachers with great giftings to teach theology, and CJ can pal it up with the best of them. CJ is on the Gospel Coalition list for next spring, Harris is kicked off.
Right now even in my own church I see things happen that remind me of SGM on a lesser level, in term of lower position people and what they do. You see the same human nature and temptations everywhere. Reading here helps me be wary and to pray and to speak.
Plus, I really admire Kris :) and many other posters and enjoy their writing a great deal.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:48 pm
“He removed the scales from our eyes over the past year.”
“I am experiencing a wonderful nearness to Jesus again after being dry and feeling condemned for so long.”
Rejoicing with you, JoyfulandFree.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Craig
Nice passage of scripture. Sure typifies what C.J. Mahaney had done.
I do wonder if a time will come when God will, like He did with Israel when they sinned, give SGM into the hands of their enemies or even raise of adversaries. Time will tell or better yet, hopefully there will be repentance before that.
October 2nd, 2012 at 6:26 pm
I just saw this on the Aquila report. Enjoy.
October 2nd, 2012 at 7:17 pm
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20121002/NEWS01/310040003/Sovereign-Grace-Church-brings-history-controversy-new-Louisville-launch?odyssey=nav|head
October 2nd, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Article from Louisville Courier-Journal about the new church opening:
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20121002/NEWS01/310040003/Sovereign-Grace-Church-brings-history-controversy-new-Louisville-launch?odyssey=nav&nclick_check=1
I watched the video posted at the beginning. CJ looks and sounds likes an absolute lunatic. Seriously!