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Another Departure…And More About Nate Morales

The following was sent to me by a reader:

At a family meeting this past Tuesday night, Mark Altrogge announced that Sovereign Grace Church of Indiana, PA is ending its partnership with Sovereign Grace Ministries.

The primary reason given is “an erosion of trust concerning the leadership of SGM.”

A more formal statement of reasons will be released later this week.

———————-

From another reader came this:

To give some very brief facts to start, the charges against Morales are centered around the sexual abuse of teenage boys, and Morales’ position as a teacher and Assistant Principal (although that position may have been “unofficial”) at MCCA. Also, during this time, Morales lived in the basement of a leader at PDI (now Soverign Grace Ministries), although later he moved into an apartment with another single guy.

The abuse started while he was a teacher at MCCA, and his targets were mostly students at the school. There were a few other boys in the “group of friends” that were not students, but the majority were, and the abuse happened on school grounds, at the PDI leader’s house, and at Morale’s  apartment (later). Please also note that MCCA was housed at Northgate Church.

The abuse started in 1989, at least for one of the victims, and continued until after that student had graduated and finally had the courage to remove himself from that circle (1991/1992-ish). Through the courage of one of the other victims, this particular victim was able to admit his abuse around 1994, and a Covenant Life Church pastor was informed at that time. The CLC  pastor counseled the typical “forgive him, don’t involve the police” routine. While they did not forbid going to the police, it was VERY frowned upon, and the victim gave up on pursuing it.  He was told later that Grant Layman “called” Morales to “check up on him” but was told nothing was amiss or admitted to.

Fast forward nearly 20 years, and due to the dedication of some select individuals (who must remain anonymous until the conclusion of the criminal trial), charges were filed, Morales was arrested, arraigned, extradited to MD, and is awaiting trial now.

It is reported that Morales’ abuse only targetted males, around the 1989-1993 timeframe, and targeted the 14-21 age frame. It is not believed that he molested any females (contrary to Brent’s accusation that Morales assaulted Paula Poe).

 

363 comments to Another Departure…And More About Nate Morales

  • Enjoying Freedom

    funny stuff from @XIANITY on twitter “RUMOR CONTROL: Pope denies reports that he is moving the Vatican & planting a new Sovereign Grace church in Louisville.”

    https://twitter.com/XIANITY/status/302075274206527488

  • Nickname

    The previous thread closed while I was typing this comment…

    Back when I read Josh’s book, IKDG, I expected to dislike it because of the title. However, after I read it, I thought it mis-titled — but book titles are often chosen by publishers, not by authors. They are to be clever lines that guarantee sales. In this case, the title was the hook that caused people to swallow not just the content, but the line and sinker of legalism.

    I clearly remember reading that it was fine for a guy and girl to go out and have a cup of coffee, etc, and thought, “What the heck? That’s a date. Whass he talkin’ bout, Willis?”

    The term ‘dating’ had been re-defined between my generation and his. What he called ‘dating’, we called ‘going steady’. We thought of dating as having a casual date or two with somebody, or going to the Prom. It was a first step, maybe, to going steady, getting lavaliered, pinned, engaged, but did not connote any kind of commitment.

    I read the book. My kids read the book. I gave it to a couple of relatives, but all of us rejected it. My kids dated while in SGM. A few years later, I was shocked to hear a college girl say that the to-date-or-not-to-date question was huge within her Campus Crusade group — it was all people talked about.

    Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. I doubt that Josh ever imagined that his view would be something harmful.

    But SGM took his book and made canon law out of it. Singles could not date. They could not meet a member of the opposite sex for a cup of coffee — something clearly mentioned as an option in Josh’s book. If a couple was seen sitting together in church for the first time, you knew that their engagement was going to be announced from the pulpit that day.

    Once when my son was home from college (yes, our kids went away to school, thank God for that) he invited a girl who had become a Christian at school, but didn’t have a church in our hometown to come to church. They sat together. After the service, people came up and congratulated me on his engagement. How crazy is that?

    Last week, I met a woman who began to tell me about the damage to her family caused by the legalism within an independent Baptist church. I would never have set foot within that kind of church, because they were known for and proud of their legalism. But I walked willingly into SGM, where legalism was redefined as godliness and freedom, and didn’t recognize it all dressed up in fancy rhetoric.

    I am embarrassed to have been affiliated with SGM for many reasons. The anti-dating legalism is one of them.

  • Muckraker

    I have seen the police report. It implies that at least one pastor and another CLC leader (perhaps a pastor-in-training?) and the principal were informed by a victims’ relative @1989.

  • KAZ

    Nickname #2
    LOL had to laugh but the number of singles and marrages that are damaged because of that book is unbelievable :o(
    I laughed at the people congradulating you on your sons enagagement :o)
    At one of the celebrations a woman missed her ride and she was on the worship team so she asked me to bring her there on the back of my motorcycle. No Worries rode there dropped her off went to find some breakfast …… later that day some of “the guys” congratulated me on my relationship with this women who could have been considered SGM royalty. LOL it got pretty messed up!!!! Strangely no one ever asked for a ride since then … well from SGM that is :o)

  • presbyterian

    Looking at the civil case, interestingly it seems that while all the CLC tied pastors (including Grant and Larry Tomzack) and SGM and CLS uses Gammon and Grange as their lawyer, CLC uses McCarthy Wilson, a different law firm.

  • Muckraker said:

    I have seen the police report. It implies that at least one pastor and another CLC leader (perhaps a pastor-in-training?) and the principal were informed by a victims’ relative @1989.

    If they really knew about this in 1989 then this is really sad. Even if it wasn’t this early, as soon as they were informed they should have reported this to the police. The experts say that most child molesters are incorrigible. They don’t change especially when left alone. Even if CLC pastors found out about this after Morales was out of the area there was potential that he continued to molest other children.

    Is this a case of pastors portraying all sins as being as bad? Is this a case of pastors believing people can change like with other areas of sin like pride etc?

  • Persona

    The time frame when Morales’ activity transpired, CJ and the others were buying land and building the CLC building..and probably more inclined to avoid lawsuit, than ever before.

    On another topic, has anyone ever wondered why Grant no longer preaches at CLC?

  • So is there a complete list of departed churches somewhere? What number is it up to now? I think it is about 15.

    Very pleased about Mark Altrogge. His worship song “I Stand in Awe of You” was a favorite of mine even before we joined SGM. I’m glad he is not standing in awe of CJ.

    I think the snowball effect is definitely rolling along here. :-)

  • Nickname

    Quoting from the post:

    It is reported that Morales’ abuse only targetted males, around the 1989-1993 timeframe, and targeted the 14-21 age frame.

    Knowing what is now known about pedophilia, it would be unlikely for his aberrant activity to have ended. I hope the police are checking every place he lived and worked in the past 20 years. Though I hope he did not continue to molest after leaving SGM, it is possible that there are more victims out there from other communities.

    It would be interesting to know if there are people who knew him from 1989-1993 who maintained a friendship with him over the years.

    Last night I read much about the missionary kids who were molested by a missionary doctor in Bangladesh. The response of their missionary organization sounds far too familiar.

  • Marge Sweigart

    Virginia (#8). On February 4th, Brent said that the number of churches that had left was 16. So Indiana would make it 17. I think it’s fair to say that Brent’s accounting is most likely accurate. ;)

  • The more churches that leave, the less money to fund the SGM insanity, especially since some of the dearly departed were major donors. Yes, this is dominoes, ripple effect, snowball – and all good, I think. Three cheers for congregations who get out. Somehow I think I’d hate to be one of the last few left on board as it goes under.

    It is for freedom that we have been set free. Hallelujah!

  • seeking truth

    Sorry this is a little out of place for this thread, but I thought this may be of interest to some here. Here is a SGM pastor telling singles how a single adult can honor God on Valentines Day .
    Please!! Do church members really need a pastor always telling them how they should respond to everything. Good grief!! Here is the link http://t.co/0fPVKynJ

  • Whirlwind

    When I read this post by Stephen Altrogge – http://www.theblazingcenter.com/2013/01/extending-mercy-to-rock-and-roll-singers.html – which someone had shared here, I hoped there might be some connection to seeing there were real-life stories behind the blogs. Maybe that’s the case. Here’s an excerpt:

    After reading Scott’s book, I feel much more inclined to extend mercy to him for the things that he did and said during his time with Creed. Was it sin? Yes, of course. Sin is always sin, and there is no excuse for it. But I also realize that sin never happens in a vacuum. Sin comes from the heart, and our hearts are shaped by our biology, our family history, our current circumstances, etc. Scott experienced a childhood nightmare that I cannot relate to. He was thrust into the spotlight in a way that I never will be.

    If only the blockheads in Louisville could find the humility to offer grace to those who have suffered things they’ll never understand instead of simply playing the G&S card in an attempt to cover their own problems!

    And if, in fact, the elders of SGC in Indiana, PA are going on public record with the “erosion of trust” explanation – Bravo! I’ll feel like I can continue listening to their music without doubting their integrity. I pray more SGM pastors will make it clear that they’ve lost confidence in SGM leaders regardless of whether it’s under the new polity or the old polity.

  • seeking truth

    I guess what bothers me so much about this is that so many times SGM pastors apparently have all the answers for you except the important ones. When people go to them for help many times the advice given has been so bad and destructive that it ends up causing much damage. There aren’t too many people still left out there who would probably care about there Valentines advice………… What’s next,”How to effectively brush your teeth, the godly way.”

  • Watercolor

    The erosion of trust is deeply disturbing and has contributed in no small measure to the weakening of faith and the loss of respect for SGM movement/denomination and its leadership. I stand in dismay, and with a sense of betrayal that so many have experienced, on learning of these sinful and criminal acts and the way SGM leadership mishandled and their inadequate response dealing with them. They had a misplaced concern for the reputation of SGM movement/denomination and the avoidance of scandal.

    The church that I attended in Louisiana has made no mention from the pulpit to its members about the orignial lawsuit or the amended lawsuit. The allegations are terrible by themselves, the secrecy surrounding the handling of these claims by the local churches adds to my sense of outrage. This is not a topic for secrecy but for candor. Openly acknowledging the dredful reality of this abuse of children, the betrayal of trust and its devastating toll to the victims, their families, and the christian community is the first step in achieving justice for those who have been wronged.

    Collusion is a term for collaboration or conspiracy. These local pastors who make a choice to ignore what they know to be true by not admitting there is a problem within SGM membership/denomination are colluding to keep the truth hidden from their membership and protect those who are/have engaged in unethical, immoral or illegal practices.

  • StvMac

    I noticed that my former SG church, KingsWay, has redone their website. Interestingly, there is not ONE SINGLE mention of SGM. They are still listed on the SGM site.

  • TrustingOnlyInJesus

    StvMac Post 16:
    Check under “About Us” ==> “What We Believe” ==> “Sovereign Grace Ministries”
    I don’t think Gene Emerson is going anywhere.

  • Older and Wiser

    StvMac,
    There are several places where SGM is mentioned on the KWCC website. Look at Matthew’s blog talking about his furthering his education and look at the “Missions” statement. Their first “partnership” is with SGM. KWCC will never jump ship and it looks like young Matthew is at the helm now! Scary!

    Seeking truth,
    So irritating reading Matthew’s advice to the singles! Gee wiz! It still bothers me that Matthew would be giving advice to anybody! ALL he knows is SGM and he’s not even 30 (although he may be getting close)! Like many other young SGM pastors, he lacks life experiences in the real world to have a proper handle on giving advice to anyone! His age alone is the first handicap and growing up SGM is the second!

  • Just Watching

    Watercolor #15

    Collusion: well said!

    Here in Los Angeles, Cardinal Roger Mahoney has been relieved of all his public duties because of his role in hiding the names of priests involved in criminal sex abuse cases. (Yes, all sex abuse is criminal whenever and wherever it happens.) The response among the Catholic faithful to this unprecedented action is favorable and many are calling for Mahoney to be defrocked. Personally, I think that’s an excellent idea.

    Turning from Mahoney to Mahaney, there are similarities. Why is it the men in leadership in SGM lack moral courage? Why is it Mahaney and Loftness have not been relieved of their duties until the courts settle this thing? Fairfax and CLC should follow suit with the men identified as defendants on their staffs. The world is watching; don’t think for a moment they are fooled by the hypocrisy in full display. Mahaney and son have no problem calling out non-Christian professional athletes on their blog (What? They have a blog? Good grief!) and CJ and Chad get a collective pass. Ho hum, next item.

    I think the Indiana church leaving speaks volumes – even more so than CLC or FFX. I am grateful for this small but extremely important phrase: “an erosion of trust concerning the leadership of SGM.” No one will be able to say “we have left over polity.” Ridiculous. A coward’s way out. This president, this leadership team, this board – you are going in the wrong direction. You are so off track! Examine the fruit. It is not healthy. It is not good.

  • Nickname

    My last blockquote got somehow reversed. Couldn’t possibly be user error, now could it?

    When asked point blank, GE answered that KW will not be separating from SG.

  • Persona

    Although I am encouraged that SGCIndiana, PA left the fold I am not sure anything will stop CJ from working on expansion.
    As many churches leave SGM, he still seems to want to replace their numbers with graduates from the PC or, adoption.

  • Kris posted this (from someone):

    At a family meeting this past Tuesday night, Mark Altrogge announced that Sovereign Grace Church of Indiana, PA is ending its partnership with Sovereign Grace Ministries.

    The primary reason given is “an erosion of trust concerning the leadership of SGM.”

    A more formal statement of reasons will be released later this week.

    I missed this part earlier. It sounds like SGM Indiana intends to give a more direct statement as to why they are leaving SGM then CLC’s politically correct statement.

    Hopefully this is the case. Leaders of other Christian groups need to hear what is really going on in SGM and why associated churches are leaving.

  • Oswald

    I’m left wondering who is the dissenting pastor at the Indiana church and what his reasoning is. Perhaps the formal statement will bring further clarification.

  • With regard to Nathaniel Morales I would be curious just how many of the boys he molested families attended CLC. Was it most of the boys or just some?

    CLC tried to distance them from Morales saying he was a member but an instructor of a non associated school but if most of Morales victims were from CLC families then the distancing CLC tries to do really isn’t there. If so, it wasn’t just the connection that allowed Morales access to these boys but was also his being an esteemed member of CLC that also allowed this. Does anyone know?

  • Wanderer

    Just Watching #19: Good points about SGM and Mahaney, but…suspending Mahony from public ministry was an interesting move, true, yet he can still vote for the new Pope and remains free of any personal criminal and civil charges.

    Telling someone who was already retired – and not really doing much in public – that he can still do the biggest thing (besides Mass) that a Cardinal gets to do is more of a slap on the wrist in my book. And technically, he can still be elected Pope. 100% sure this will not happen, but not because of any legal ban or pending criminal charges.

    Now if Gomez had said, “We ban you *and* we will cooperate fully with the authorities to see if charges can be brought against you,” that would be more like what the SGM pastors with integrity should do. Otherwise Mahony and Mahaney can still enjoy most of the perks of freedom they had when they were riding high.

  • 5yearsinPDI

    Steve #6…..

    “Is this a case of pastors believing people can change like with other areas of sin like pride etc?”

    How old are you Steve? I got saved back in the Jesus movement and if you didn’t experience it, it is hard to describe that sort of exuberant outpouring. It was winding down by the end of the 80s, but during the 70s and 80s vast numbers of people were getting saved- hippies, liberal denominations, it was all over. Larry and CJ were part of a huge exciting movement that became the Shepherding Movement, and also a lot of people ending up in the positive confession/word of faith nonsense, and even a big harvest in Presbyterian circles.

    The local church was so central. We had the power of the spirit and God was restoring the ruins- on individual levels and church levels. The Peretti books were out second half of the 80s, and so many of us (led significantly by Derek Prince) were pulling down strongholds and casting out demons and binding the enemy. You were saved and got a new heart and new spirit and it was time for victory and the kingdom of God here and now.

    You just didn’t think in terms of indwelling sin and lifelong struggles with temptation. Expectations were much higher. A pedophile? Praise God, he is a new creation. We were sooooooooo ignorant. You didn’t need counseling or cops, you just needed to go up front and get prayed for by the elders.

    In a way, I don’t fault them for the ignorance of the 80s or even the early 90s with sexual predators. It was the devil attacking and all that jazz, to destroy the work of God, so you didn’t go to cops. It is hard to describe the whole mindset to anybody who wasn’t in it. (The parents were generally just as trusting and just as ignorant as pastors if not more so).

    But- when PDI hooked up with CCEF in the 90s, and understood Reformed teachings on indwelling sin and lifelong battles with sin, and started to get a more realistic view of fallen human nature, well, at that point the excuses fade away. They pulled out all the sin nature stuff for gossips and critics, but not for pedophiles, and that was an inexcusable double standard.

    So my take on it is that 1989 could have been genuine deception, ignorance, and way too much kingdom now theology, and way too much Shepherding cr@p that made pastors think they would fix the perverts and didn’t need any trained counselors. But by the late 90s I’d say it was all a double standard and cover up.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong, only my view from the cheap seats :)

  • Persona

    Oswald 23 My sources say it was Stephen.

  • Jenn Grover

    I find the question of who the dissenting pastor is less significant than the fact that they were transparent about it not being unanimous. SGM MO is to appear as though they 100% agree, even when they don’t.

  • Diego

    5 yrs 26,
    Enjoyed reading of the history of God’s movement of that time. I was mercifully saved in the 90s. As I read your post I was thinking of the people of Israel. Hard for them to string 2 generations together that honored God. God though was faithful to reveal Himself and His plan each generation. They were never left alone.

    Life was breathed into dry churches in the 70s. Doctrine became important to us in the 90s. God is faithful to this coming generation. He doesn’t need conferences like NEXT or Transfer. He is doing a work drawing us to HIM. Our hearts are becoming as HIS. We don’t have to chase after pastors or priests that may or may not be shepherds after God’s Heart.

    He has given us HIS Spirit. We have hearts (evidenced by the care given to those injured here at this and like blogs by simple saints), while pastors plan their business and fill their ambition. God is awakening His people. Church will never be the same again, not just at SG.

    It will be God’s people, not pastors crying out. The Lord reigns, he is robed in majesty;indeed the world is established, firm and secure. The seas have lifted up, Lord, the seas have lifted up their voice; the seas have lifted up their pounding waves. Mightier than the thunder of the great waters, mightier than the breakers of the sea-the LORD on high is mighty.

  • Oswald

    Persona @27 — Interesting, but not surprising. Thanks.

  • Anonymous at SGCIndiana

    Jenn #28,
    At the meeting, they announced the 3-to-1 vote with no attempt to spin it, which I appreciated. When someone asked specifically about the dissenting vote, the other pastors were hesitant at first but then Stephen stood up and said (I am paraphrasing of course), “Look, let’s just be open about this. It was me, but this will have no effect on my status or participation in the pastoral team. We are one team and we are moving on. That’s it.”
    I know Stephen’s passion and concern for our church go far beyond his feelings for SGM, and I have no doubt he will continue to love and serve the church with his whole heart.

  • Persona

    Jenn28 I had the same thought. Good for them for transparency.

  • Persona

    I don’t think pastoral teams need to be in 100% agreement on every subject outside the main tenants of the faith. They can rule by consensus. But, it would be even better if they include the congregation in their decisions.

  • I find the question of who the dissenting pastor is less significant than the fact that they were transparent about it not being unanimous. SGM MO is to appear as though they 100% agree, even when they don’t.

    They also didn’t state the nature or how extreme the dissent was. By this I mean was the dissenting pastor just wanting to give SGM more time or was he more of a “kool-aid” drinking pastor who didn’t think C.J. did anything wrong or that C.J.’s sins were “ordinary?” In other words was it a strong dissent or was it just a plea to keep in the “family” for a little while longer.

    5yearsinPDI

    Thanks for the background information. I was around for some of it and it somewhat explains it.

    It is always been baffling with all this focus on “indwelling sin” etc. that SGM supposedly believes for the group to have very little if any checks and balances on power. I guess it is another case of what they teach doesn’t apply to leaders.

  • Terry

    @ 5yearsinPDI #26 – Well Said. My mom was part of the Exodus from mainstream denominations (1973) and I soon followed after getting saved in 1979. Paul Palmer, Keith Rushing, and Chuck Mosley were all part of “Son Life” church…the new “non-denom” on the block…they were just members then and leading various groups and such…then the name changed to “Church of the Covenant” (can’t remember why)…the big thing then for us was end-time prophecy with everyone saying the the “pre-trib” rapture was on it’s way…focusing on David Wilkerson and Hilton Sutton books/tape…lol. Our church was laying hands on the sick, speaking in tongues, prophesying, etc…whether right or wrong they were excited and on fire. Our pastor (Val Munson) left and there was no one to lead the church. So Paul, Keith, and Chuck stepped up and filled in the best they could. I don’t know or remember the details but Paul, Keith, and Chuck who all had ordinary jobs realized they needed help…hence, PDI. Not sure how that all transpired but it did. As the late Paul Harvey said…”Now you know the rest of the story”. Those were exciting days to be a Christian…no inhibitions but it laid a very weak foundation for our church. When the trials and tribulations hit (and they did) we learned quickly a foundation built upon the end-times, prophecy, and gifts of the spirit does not last long. The whole “Exodus” was in a sense…immature and ripe for such movements as PDI/SGM, Vineyard, Calvery Chapel, etc. But I do know God is faithful in completing that work He began. And I am in total agreement with Bod Dixon in that unless SGM submits to complete brokenness and repentance then their fate has been hand-written on the wall.

  • Waters

    “…..AN EROSION OF TRUST CONCERNING THE LEADERSHIP OF SGM……..”

    Broken trust

    Broken trust of the leadership

    Shepherds who have mauled Gods people and lorded over His own have produced erosion in the heart, spirit and mind of the saints
    Trust must not be given to those who erode the Bride of Christ. What arrogance to come between the Bride and Christ!

    Indiana PA, praying you will throw off the chains of SGM, renounce the causes of erosion…and cry out to Jesus…

  • Nickname

    “Is this a case of pastors believing people can change like with other areas of sin like pride etc?”

    I get pretty riled up thinking of people who were read the riot act, degifted, booted, shunned, and deleted because of what some errant leader called the sin of pride.

    Pride — completely subjective. Not measurable. Nothing criminal about pride. An accusation you cannot refute, for refuting it would prove their point, no matter how off-base they are.

    All these years, people have been called on the carpet for the nebulous, ill-defined sin of pride.

    And all these years, people who committed measurable crimes against innocent children and their parents, people whose sins/crimes can be counted and measured, were given a pass and enabled to continue to not only sin again and again, but commit crimes against defenseless children.

    Beyond bizarre.

  • Balaam's Donkey

    By the way, it looks like Bob Dixon will be in the Gaithersburg area on March 2nd. Here’s a link to http://www.symboulosministries.org where you can read the details in the current Newsletter.

  • just saying...

    Brent is the one that made the 45 Signs of Pride list. It basically made every human behavior the sin of pride. So, no matter what you did, they could turn the tables on you and call it sin.

    Although the sin of pride is certainly a sin perceivable by God in your heart, I see no scriptural basis for Brent’s 45 behaviors he claimed to be pride.

    This single false teaching was used to bring about great destruction in many lives.

  • Stunned

    just saying said, “Brent is the one that made the 45 Signs of Pride list. It basically made every human behavior the sin of pride. So, no matter what you did, they could turn the tables on you and call it sin.”

    To him who is pure, all things are pure.

  • Just Watching

    Wanderer @ 25: While not a Catholic, I think Mahoney got off light. He should go to jail and be removed from the priesthood. Many in Los Angeles think it is wrong that he is able to gather with the College of Cardinals to cast any votes to determine the new pope. In that respect, he makes out like a bandit. His legacy takes a huge hit and, believe me, that’s a big deal to him. So a slap on the wrist? Yes, you are certainly right about that.

    So where is SGM’s “Gomez” to sit Mahaney down? So far, it looks like the board of enablers lack any intention of doing so. Why aren’t the rest of the SGM pastors voicing their objections? There’s the golden question. Everybody wants to know. Speculation continues.

  • Recovering Free Reformist

    @KAZ
    Fancy meeting you here….a place where folks actually think and reason as they journey freely toward moving on from years of this ongoing mess. Feel free to email me at pinkunicorn000@gmail.com if your wondering who the heck this is. Just started reading and following the latest updates in the last week and a half or so.

  • Whiz Wit

    Persona @21 ….. no doubt that the plan is church planting. SGC Marlton had a family meeting about a month ago in part explaining that Jeff Boettcher will be plating a church in the South Philly area. They had the audio of the meeting posted for a while but I can’t find it. The current sermon series is called “Sent” and it’s about planting churches among other things.

  • Stunned

    Little Jeff Boettcher is planting a church?!?!?! This madness has to stop.

  • the_jiggler

    #40 stunned-you got off light, when I was under Brent at Crossway it was 50 fruits of pride. I wish Brent would go back and re-read his list. Might help him in his current state.

    Speaking of Crossway, it seems they are letting Larry M go because of money issues. Hopefully this trickles up… Less local troops = less local money = less money in the mothership.

    My heart goes out to some of the families still stuck at Crossway. Only way some of them are getting out is if the whole thing crumbles.

  • Churches which have left SGM, from two sources, and in no particular order

    From a friend who is very knowledgeable…

    Sarasota, FL – Luan Nguyen
    St. Pete, FL – Jerry Cisar
    Charlottesville, VA – Keith Breault
    Cleveland, OH – Darren Lander
    Fairfax, VA – Mark Mullery
    Gaithersburg, MD – Joshua Harris
    Daytona, FL – Jesse Jarvis
    Indiana, PA – Mark Altrogge
    Miami, FL – Jose Prado
    San Diego – Mark Lauterbach
    Vancouver, WA – Dan Morse
    Vancouver, BC, CANADA – Pat Sczebel, Fred Heumann
    Chesapeake, VA – Eric Hughes
    San Francisco, CA – Toby Kurth
    Chicago, IL – John Feska
    Pleasanton, CA – Sam Shin
    Arlington, VA – Eric Simmons

    And, according to Brent Detwiler, these two as well:

    Corning, NY – Allen Snapp
    Merthyr Tydfil, Wales – Gareth Lloyd

    That makes 19, which is the highest number I’ve seen so far. Is this complete and accurate?

    I know more are considering leaving, too. It would be nice to have an easy to see page at Survivors with the current list.

    Virginia

  • 5yearsinPDI

    Diego and Terry…

    ….enjoyed your stories, thanks.

    I tend to think much harder times are coming to America, especially economically. When they can inflate the currency to infinity and the debts are so massive, one can assume that the golden days are ending.

    Economics will hit the conference circuit hard. It will hit local churches as well, but not the way it’ll hit the extras. I see it already. We’ll be local community again, helping each other out and loving each other. Maybe just a guitar instead of umpteen thusands of dollars of sound equipment. Caring about the poor; praying we don’t get thrown in jail just for being Christians. The suburban big house with starbucks church model is probably headed out.

  • Phoenix

    @Virginia Knowles, #36,

    I too went looking for these and also found Aurora, CO, although it is still listed on the Sovereign Grace website and still lists its affiliation with SGM on its own website. Perhaps someone could confirm its status? Does anyone have access to a list of the churches from 2011?

  • Bridget

    Virginia @46

    Vancouver Washington shut their doors a year or so ago. Dan’s wife was ill and he wanted to care for her.

  • Marge Sweigart

    Jiggler (#45) If my memory serves me correctly (and often it does not, these days), Larry was receiving part of his income from SGM because of his extensive work with the partnerships in Asia. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong. When he first came to CrossWay, he was selling real estate, so I guess he could fall back on that, but with the economy being in the state it is, that might not work out very well. But, yeah, I have heard that they are hurting financially at CrossWay. I’m not surprised. I also noticed at the CWCC website that they have Matthew Wireman on staff as a church planting resident and they plan to use him to plant a church somewhere this year.