On his blog, Brent Detwiler indicates that the Sovereign Grace Ministries Board was apparently planning to announce C.J. Mahaney’s resignation this past Friday. Here is an excerpt from Brent’s most recent post, where he quotes from an email he sent to SGM’s board:
[Brent addressing the board:] When will the lying stop? The letter you wrote the SGM pastors about John Loftness’ resignation was not truthful and now you are doing the same with the letter regarding C.J.’s upcoming resignation. You need to stop dead in your tracks and start over! This time write an honest letter.
The only reason C.J. is resigning is because you asked him to resign. He was not happy about your decision but decided not to fight it. You should also make clear the Board was divided over his removal and spell out who was in favor and who was opposed (e.g., Mickey, Ken). The pastors in SGM deserve to know how each Board Member voted on something of such significance.
Even more importantly, you need to be transparent about the reasons for removing C.J. from the Leadership Team and as President of SGM – that is, the widespread loss of trust and erosion of confidence in him. For the sake of Christ, don’t spin the explanation and try to make C.J. look good by deceitful means. Please don’t manipulate the truth again. Every time you do so, you do not save face, you lose face because the Lord exposes you (e.g. the announcement regarding the relocation to Louisville [Apr 19, 2012], the announcement regarding C.J.’s as President [Jun 28, 2012], the use of Philippians 2:1 [Sep 12, 2012]; the “reasoned response to six questions” [Sep 14, 2012]).
Furthermore, you know C.J. and John are in real trouble over the lawsuit. On January 11, you told everyone you were “carefully reviewing each allegation…working diligently in an effort to learn the truth.” You’ve done your investigation. You realize both of them are culpable. Just be honest. Tell the pastors you are concerned for how they handled the victims and protected sexual predators and that is one of the reasons you think it is necessary to remove C.J. from all leadership in SGM.
Moreover, let the pastors know what you are really doing big picture. Why conceal it? You are cleaning house because few pastors trust C.J., Dave Harvey, John Loftness, Mickey Connolly, etc. al, any longer! If you shoot straight for a change the pastors that remain might actually begin to trust you more. Just tell them you are removing the old guard so they can be replaced by a new guard. Tell them you are trying to stop the bleeding for ethical and practical reasons before SGM hemorrhages’ to death.
It will be interesting to follow the developments in the upcoming days and weeks.
March 5th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
Jimmy #51 you said (excerpt):
“Foot,
Give Craig a little credit for changing major doctrine in the local church which he pastored, Grace Church San Diego. As far as Craig calling it a “Mistake”. That’s good enogh for me. I have never ever seen a pastor in any denomination do what Craig did. BTW — I know a lot more about the background than you realize.”
Jimmy, since you claim to know a lot more about the background of Craig Cabiness changing a MAJOR (my insert: PDI/SGM) doctrine than you (I, Foot) realize, “please” share and memorialize with us your detailed knowledge and timeline of the background, etc. “Thank you!”
March 5th, 2013 at 12:50 pm
Y’all from the southern churches can correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t it Bob that did a lot of the dirty work for CJ? Wasn’t Bob down there winnowing out and degifting some of those pastors when they weren’t “above reporach?”
He may not be the iceman that Shank was but his hands still have blood on them.
March 5th, 2013 at 12:51 pm
#79. Oswald. I believe you said you left CovFel a while ago. Without being at the meeting you have come to some hefty conclusions without having been there.
March 5th, 2013 at 1:10 pm
>>>I have never ever seen a pastor in any denomination do what Craig did<<<
I've never seen a pastor in any denomination do MANY of the things these SGM nutters have done.
They truly are unique in that respect. Inventing a whole new kind of crazy.
By the way, I don't immediately recall any messages from other groups on the evils of reading blogs and the information age, yet SGM has given about 20-30 talks/statements/blogs (ooh, the irony!) in the past few years on the topic. CJ true to form doing it again on Sunday.
You know who historically fears freely shared information? Those with something to hide.
March 5th, 2013 at 1:25 pm
CFTK #104 said:
“You know who historically fears freely shared information? Those with something to hide.”
Very true! Well put. “Thanks” Kris and Guy, Jim (past blog) and others for your service to the Body of Christ! I appreciate your true sense of love and concern for people. And, history!
March 5th, 2013 at 1:50 pm
whattodo @103 — As stated in #79, I heard what was said from someone who was there. I asked them and they told me what it was about.
March 5th, 2013 at 1:57 pm
The exchange between Foot and Jimmy about someone one admires and another doesn’t, and the remarks pro-and-con about Prophecy-Song-Bob show us that humanity is fallible, imperfect and inconsistent. If it weren’t that way, we wouldn’t need Jesus.
None of us knows the entire history on any person in or outside SGM. Sometimes, there are things to overlook; sometimes we cannot overlook. One person thinks so-and-so is wonderful; another has been hurt or damaged by interacting with him. A criminal act cannot be negated by a good act. One of the themes in our arena is that the faulty system caused damage to pastors, and caused pastors to damage people. I hope they will all leave SG and find a place to be healed and restored.
Sometimes, bad guys do decent things, and even the good guys foul up. Every commenter is entitled to his own opinion; but sometimes, I just wanna say, “Boys, take it outside.”
March 5th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
Bob Kauflin broke down weeping at the end of the first CLC family meeting. Either he was overcome by emotion or he is a fine actor. But, he is hired by SGM not CLC so he is first and foremost beholding to CJ. And, he did his best to defend his boss at that meeting. That night he told the congregation that he was very ‘hurt’ by the negative commentary about CJ that evening. He was the last word as well, which I am sure, helped his case.
Still, the only ‘negative’ comments about CJ that I remember being uttered that evening at the mic, was a call for CJ to ‘step down’ by a home school-soccer mom. Josh apparently agreed more with her than Bob, as he later appointed her to one of several church panels researching CLC polity.
Kris, I think it is true that CJ brilliantly surrounds himself with attractive, bright and engaging personalities. They effectively soften the ill-effects of his tart and pugnacious personality. And, they probably help people swallow CJ’s prickly invectives. Over the years, Carolyn, Jeff, Gary, Bob and Josh and others have made CJ/SGM more acceptable to the masses.
CJ may be a psycho-narcissist but, he may also be a genius.
March 5th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
Ahh, the prophetic songs. We practiced prophetic song improvisation in worship seminars. There were moments when I am sure the prophetic songs were legitimately composed on the spot, because I did them; whether that makes them any more or less authentic is up for debate.
But I found out the first time I went to Celebration that sometimes things are not as they seem. BK sang a ‘prophetic song’ that I really loved, and began to scribble the words on the flyleaf of my Bible, but couldn’t get them all. Afterwards, I went down to the stage, waited my turn to speak to him, and told him how much I liked the song and was disappointed I couldn’t write all the words down fast enough. He was kind enough to say, wait a minute, I think I wrote them down — and went backstage to grab a notebook.
The song was no less meaningful, but I remember feeling slightly weird about it having been portrayed as spontaneous when it had been written beforehand.
The drive to make something look supernatural when it wasn’t -- at least not supernaturally delivered at that moment — makes them no different than the faith healers who set the stage with empty wheelchairs and canes, to make it look as if healings have just occurred. Charlatans.
Yet, truth is still truth, even in a thief’s pocket. That’s a quote from somebody quotable, but I can’t remember who. Truth doesn’t need for us to make something look heeby-jeeby if it isn’t.
March 5th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
My ¢.02 on Tim Challies bad advice:
http://livingtext.blogspot.com/2013/03/tim-challies-bad-advice.html
March 5th, 2013 at 3:05 pm
Joel’s link referenced this link:
http://sgmnation.wordpress.com/2011/12/03/cj-mahaneys-comments-at-covenant-life-church/
This was C.J.’s original “confession” to CLC right after the documents were made public. At the 11/2011 SGM Pastors’s conference C.J. basically retracted this confession. I just reread C.J. original “confession.”
Just imagine what might have happened if C.J. continued along this path vs. how he retracted what he said and took his bruised ego to Louisville. You probably wouldn’t have had the church splits and maybe there could have been major change.
Sad that didn’t happen and sad that other SGM Leaders such as Kauflin and Harvey enabled C.J.’s behaviors.
March 5th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
Well if you look at this video that some describe as Bob Kauflin “worshiping” C.J. Mahaney then it really isn’t a surprise that Kauflin would break down crying when Kauflin felt C.J. was treated negatively:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ayGCk2V_mY
What ever happened to hate the sin and lover the sinner? Shouldn’t that have been Bob Kauflin’s reaction when C.J.’s pattern of sin and hiding that sin was exposed? Apparently Bob’s friendship with C.J. got in the way of recognizing the hypocrisy and sin of C.J.
Sad that Bob couldn’t see that there should be consequences for C.J.’s sin and that especially leaders aren’t to be given a free pass.
March 5th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
The Wartburg Watch has a post up about Challies and his connection with SGM and C.J. Mahaney.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/03/04/tim-challies-cruciform-press-in-our-cross-hairs/
March 5th, 2013 at 5:52 pm
CFC’s meeting included general announcements about the lawsuit and churches leaving. The room was packed. No standing room left.
But the NEW news: Jared announced no money sent from CFC to SGM will be used for SGM’s leagal fees.
March 5th, 2013 at 6:07 pm
RE: Suzie Q #114 -- I wonder if the insurance company is covering that so it is no big deal for Jared to say that?
March 5th, 2013 at 6:15 pm
Jen, I agree, insurance should cover their legal costs.
Also, how can anyone who gives money to SGM ensure they don’t use it any way they want? I thought SGM congregations officially have no say over anything, including what is done with their donations?
March 5th, 2013 at 6:20 pm
Money if fungible. What you don’t spend here, you can spend there. Say $100 is donated and spent on the parking lot, that frees up $100 that could have been spent there on legal fees instead. Just speaking hypothetically.
March 5th, 2013 at 6:35 pm
#109 QUOTE: “The drive to make something look supernatural when it wasn’t — at least not supernaturally delivered at that moment — makes them no different than the faith healers who set the stage with empty wheelchairs and canes, to make it look as if healings have just occurred. Charlatans.”
Is this for real? It just gets worse and worse for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 5th, 2013 at 6:38 pm
As was stated earlier, by Jenn Grover, I think,—there has been no repentance from SGM leadership.
No repentance, therefore no renouncing of sin.
Mahaney, Kauflin, Ricucci flee to Louisville—to repackage and restructure SGM into SovGrace ministries.
Same ‘ol dog, new name. Same ‘ol culture, new name. Same ‘ol structure, new name.
Kauflin is hosting worship conferences: “Called to Be Faithful” in the East (Louisville KY at Highview Baptist Church East)
and in the West (at Calvary Church, Santa Ana CA) this summer.
In the west, speakers are: Craig Cabaniss, Kevin DeYoung, Jon Payne (and Bob Kauflin).
Reports are that Cabaniss has stepped down from SGM Board to care for his Frisco (very small) church. There was a report on Survivors that the Frisco church issued a questionnaire to members in regards to leaving SGM. Is the Frisco church REALLY considering leaving SGM? Or would that be a spinning smokescreen? Cabaniss is speaking at the SGM sponsored worship conference (discounts offered to pastors). Payne is solid SGM — moving from SGM/Gilbert AZ to Austin TX to plant an SGM church; often writes on the SGM Blog. His father is associate pastor in SGM church, Frisco. — Duplicity is in action: Out of one side of the mouth is the possibility of leaving SGM (uh-huh), and the other is joining arms with drenched SGMites for a worship conference.
Same ‘ol dog.
In the East, Cabaniss is joined with Russell Moore, Jared Mellinger (infamous for his statement exhorting his congregants to view porn rather than read “the blogs”), Kauflin, K Twit, and D Whitney.
SGM or Sovgrace min (their new name?) continues to roll on—unrepentant, blind, repackaging.
CJ resigning? If so— he will certainly be repackaged. The culture SGM has built is becoming increasingly insidious.
So very parallel to the insidious spirit of deceit rampant throughout our world.
March 5th, 2013 at 6:47 pm
http://www.phinnweb.org/neuro/brainwash/
Interesting.
March 5th, 2013 at 7:28 pm
How will sgm force cj to resign because he’s wildly defective but still allow him to pastor sgm Louisville?
How are they planning to spin this now that Brent let the resignation cat out of the bag? (Or in sgmese- Brent “unpacked the cat??”)
March 5th, 2013 at 7:30 pm
Steve @111
I realize that C.J. bears responsibility for retracting his confession and for his subsequent actions. I also realize that Brent’s correction was crucial to breaking the code of silence in SGM, and finally, that C.J.’s account of his interaction with Brent may not be entirely accurate. However, I wonder if Brent’s overbearing, unyielding, and prosecutorial attitude contributed to a hardening of C.J.’s and other’s attitudes toward him and the whole correction process.
Personally, I would dread being in a conflict with Brent and trying to apologize to his satisfaction. Any organization build on Brent’s legalistic approach to religion and relationships would inevitable tear itself apart as leaders and members constantly find fault with each other. Love covers a multitude of sins.
So, the question is, did SGM create Brent, did Brent create SGM, or where they just perfect for each other, resulting in Mutually Assured Destruction? This is a Dr. Strangelove scenario. To use a different analogy, C.J. and Brent are like two macho guys racing each other down an interstate, through traffic, trying to see who can stay ahead. When they lose control, a multi-car pileup occurs. They look back over the miles of wreckage, smoke, and broken bodies and say, “I had nothing to do with that. It was his fault.”
March 5th, 2013 at 7:36 pm
Suzzie Q @114 — Thanks for your input concerning the CovFel meeting of this past Sunday. Interesting that the room was packed. I wonder if they were expecting that since Jared announced that it was for anyone interested, as if there might not be many who were.
Thanks again.
March 5th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
Persona @116 — I think one way for current attenders to have their tithe NOT go to SGM Corp is to designate it for a ministry within the local church, like prison ministry, or Bridge (formerly known as Alpha), etc. I think the whole amount would go to the ministry you designate, without taking off 10% for SGM. But who knows just how they figure things.
March 5th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
On Bob K -- about once a month my Presbyterian church switches from hymns to contemporary worship songs, usually of the SGM brand. It makes me sick to my stomach. I usually can’t sing them. Sometimes I just go to the lobby until it’s done. I get angry about the abuse and that’s no way to worship and focus on God. When I first got there I found the old hymns so refreshing and I still do. They address so much more than just the crucifixion.
I know Bob K very little, he’s incredibly kind and generous in conversation with the little people. I don’t know how he bulldogged the people CJ sicced him on, but he’s utterly complicit in all the sin and abuse. And while I’m not calling him Hitler, it should be noted that being a generally nice and polite person isn’t an indication of innocence -- Hitler was a favorite dinner guest of the 3rd Reich. A more politely pleasant man who was adored by children and dogs could not be found…as long as you weren’t a Jew, gay, gypsy, slavic, senile, deformed, etc. Nice and polite and kind generally are an indication that you don’t fart at the dinner table, not of anything else deeper and hidden, most especially if you exercise any kind of power.
So the board asks CJ to step down, so what? When the whole thing needs to be removed from the earth and the ground salted, it’s not terribly encouraging for just CJ to go. As someone else said earlier, I would assume there’s a Putin like return to power planned anyway.
March 5th, 2013 at 8:00 pm
VL @124 — said “I would assume there’s a Putin like return to power planned anyway”. In fact, have we not seen this once already? There was assurance that CJ would help the board to find his replacement and then step down, BUT, what do you know, the board saw no one better suited and asked CJ to please stay on as president, as many here said would happen.
March 5th, 2013 at 8:01 pm
When my currect church was singing a SGM song our family would leave the room. We were asked why and were able to share the SGM story. Our church no longer sings SGM songs no will no longer go to any of thier conferences.
March 5th, 2013 at 8:02 pm
Oswald@125 -- Exactly. He’s already done the great regifting act once, he will do it again. The power and adulation are a drug for him, he thrives in it.
I mean that in a bad way.
March 5th, 2013 at 8:08 pm
#121 A hollywood formula for many years has been the chase scene. Moby Dick, Ben Hur, Ronin, Road Runner/Coyote…
Sometimes I wonder if CJ is holding an umbrella, looking, hoping the huge ROCK won’t hit him or the umbrella will protect him from the ROCK, while he does what is in his nature to do. The END of the chase does not go well for the coyote. Sometimes I am reminded of this on the freeway. And, see a coyote who possibly thought it could cross the freeway by its own works…not humble, does not end well. Beep Beep…
March 5th, 2013 at 8:14 pm
Concerned for the kids #120 asked:
“How will SGM force CJ to resign because he’s wildly defective but still allow him to pastor SGM Louisville?”
--Because they operate in duplicity. Duplicity isnot TRUTH. Their duplicity is shrouded in camouflage with SGMese speak, which continues to manipulate their congregants into blind obedience and cultural adherence.
March 5th, 2013 at 8:23 pm
Oswald and others on CovFel, we are formers and I’m glad to hear they brought up giving in the context of the lawsuit this past Sun. That lets me know that possibly many people there may be reading the blogs, or else why would the pastors address something they would love to keep to do anything with, i.e. people’s moo-lah? It sounds like there may be a quiet revolt beginning and when it revolves around money, that will surely get their attention. It is also telling that it was standing room only…people are screaming to know the truth.
March 5th, 2013 at 8:56 pm
The ship is taking on water faster than the board can handle. Notice the major rewrite of the polity agreement? Even apostles are back. They are desperate to stop more churches from leaving and will ilkely try to convince some of the departures to come back. My guess is that there serious disagreement among the leadership right now. It wouldn’t surprise me if any delay in dealing with Brent’s leak is not related to disagreement in how to respond. Expect Mark Prater and Paul Buckley to be making appeals to specific churches to stay or come back. On the Worship conference press release SGM now descirbes itself as a, “…a global family of 70 churches…” Remember when it was 90? It was not that long ago.
People need to find out exatly how the legal fees are being paid for both the “church” (SGM/CLC) and the individuals. If you don’t ask specific direct questions, they will continue to only tell you what they think, “serves you.”
March 5th, 2013 at 9:19 pm
I don’t think anyone will force CJ to do anything. CJ is and will always be the leader with or without a title. He will always be remembered as a marytr for the purity of the gospel by the SGM faithful.
March 5th, 2013 at 9:25 pm
Regarding legal fees, even if the insurance pays some of the costs I am sure there will be significant costs that the insurance won’t pay for like travel to Maryland for the depositions and court appearances. I am sure there is also a maximum on their coverage and the award could be more than SGM/CLC has coverage for.
Greg re: 121
Good points. Brent certainly will stick to things.
I would say that most of C.J.’s dealings with Brent were before C.J. gave his “confession” and not afterwards. Thus whatever affect Brent’s “bull doggedness” had on C.J. happened before C.J.’s initial confession and not afterward.
Thus not sure I would attribute C.J.’s withdrawing his confession or trivializing his sin on Brent’s actions. I wasn’t there when C.J. gave his “confession” but seem to recall people claiming C.J. was quick to get out of there. If anything I see the withdrawal of the “confession” as more of a pride thing where it was just too much to step down and give up what it took 35 years for him to attain.
C.J. was suppose to spend the time right after his confession as reflecting etc but almost immediately went back to preaching.
Also realize that C.J. Mahaney fight for power, competitiveness and being “top dog” goes back to the TAG days when C.J. and Larry would hide books from each other etc.
I do though see your point.
March 5th, 2013 at 9:27 pm
have you guys ever seen this? I cracked up laughing at some of the lines.
https://twitter.com/FakeDetwiler
https://twitter.com/fakejohnpiper
March 5th, 2013 at 9:50 pm
5yrs #134….I LOVE it!! Especially:
March 5th, 2013 at 10:07 pm
Actually I think I spoke too quickly. Jenn Grover, are you part of the FakeDetwiler twitter “joke”? Looks like you are referenced there. The other tweet looks pretty mean-spirited…I think the BrentDetwiler fake twitter page is a little much. Somehow the John Piper one does not seem as mean….Anyone else have an opinion?