Dave Harvey Departs Covenant Fellowship Church

It was announced at a members’ meeting yesterday that Dave Harvey, longtime pastor and Sovereign Grace Ministries leader, resigned effective March 15.  Reasons cited for the departure included family issues and allusions to other problems.

Members were asked not to talk about the situation.

258 comments

  1. Foot says:

    Another one slithers away…but he can’t run from the HEAD of the Church. Diamond Dave will give an account of ALL he has done in the lives of God’s people and the money he has taken, year after year, minute by minute. Lying, defrauding, stealing…your sins will find you out Mr. Dave Harvey, false apostle…

  2. Steve240 says:

    It really is sad that SGM/CFC is being “tight lipped” about this. Is this really fair with all the pastors that Harvey forced to step down and there being some discussion why should Harvey’s actions be hidden?

    Is Harvey resigning his membership at CFC or just his leadership position?

  3. Foot says:

    Steve Shank, your time is coming soon…footsteps…

  4. Marie says:

    Steve240 #1, yes I agree this is very sad. I wonder if SGM will now wipe out evidence of DH’s connection with them – remove his blog posts over time, remove his books from the online bookstore, etc.

    I truly hope and pray that he can be genuinely “loved on” by whatever church family he visits. I have had close friends point out some harsh realities in my life, and I know how hard it is to hear these things from people when they try to point them out. I hope he can develop some trustworthy close friends who can help him to weather this storm. While he has not been my favorite person at SGM, I wish him no ill will. I am genuinely sorry for him. I never would have predicted that things would have to end this way for him at SGM.

  5. Diego says:

    Immediately when I heard of Dave’s events my mind went here:

    There is mention of a king of Israel in Micah 9:16 (See Micah 6:9-16: Israel’s guilt and punishment)Omri was a king of Israel who established a kingdom and bequeathed the kingdom to Ahab. (kinda like “transferring” the gospel) Listening Jared…

    Israel’s Guilt and Punishment

    9 Listen! The Lord is calling to the city—
    and to fear your name is wisdom—
    “Heed the rod and the One who appointed it.
    10 Am I still to forget your ill-gotten treasures, you wicked house,
    and the short ephah, which is accursed?
    11 Shall I acquit someone with dishonest scales,
    with a bag of false weights?
    12 Your rich people are violent;
    your inhabitants are liars
    and their tongues speak deceitfully.
    13 Therefore, I have begun to destroy you,
    to ruin you because of your sins.
    14 You will eat but not be satisfied;
    your stomach will still be empty.
    You will store up but save nothing,
    because what you save I will give to the sword.
    15 You will plant but not harvest;
    you will press olives but not use the oil,
    you will crush grapes but not drink the wine.
    16 You have observed the statutes of Omri
    and all the practices of Ahab’s house;
    you have followed their traditions.
    Therefore I will give you over to ruin
    and your people to derision;
    you will bear the scorn of the nations

  6. Steve240 says:

    Marie said:

    Steve240 #1, yes I agree this is very sad. I wonder if SGM will now wipe out evidence of DH’s connection with them — remove his blog posts over time, remove his books from the online bookstore, etc.

    My issue is more that Harvey appears to be getting a “free pass” while others that he has removed their issues were pointed to some degree. What is even worse is the allegations of Harvey’s family issues being covered up by himself and others over a period of time that were posted as comments in the last blog post.

    If what is alleged is true, it is a shame that Harvey and others couldn’t have seen Harvey’s family issues as a way of God pointing out that they weren’t always attainable.

    I do feel for Harvey. I am sure this is hard after being in leadership for so long but this may be consequences for his actions, especially if the alleged cover up is true.

  7. Foot says:

    Jonah 2:8 “They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.” (KJV)

    Let it be known to the Body of Christ that these false PDI/SGM apostles have shown no repentance from dead works. These false apostles, and past and present PDI/SGM board members, have set the example of what NOT to follow. You that continue to support them are partakers of their deeds. You have to take responsibility for your actions and realize that this will not stop until all funds are cutoff. If these false leaders want to truly repent, they need to do it in writing and verbally in public, confessing what exactly they have done. By doing so they would give glory to our Lord Jesus Christ and SHOW LOVE to God’s people by protecting the sheep from their horrible example. We serve the God of Truth (John 14:6, John 4:24), not the father of lies!!!

  8. Cult Watcher says:

    “Dave’s family was coming apart at the seams” Define coming apart at the seams.

    “allegations of Harvey’s family issues” Specify allegations.

  9. Steve240 says:

    Foot

    A good example of what you mentioned is a recent message C.J. Mahaney gave at SGM Louisville:

    Mar 17 The Provision and Priority of Gospel Unity | Philippians 4:1-3 | C.J. Mahaney

    Hard to believe C.J. with any kind of a straight face could preach on “gospel unity.” Isn’t he the major cause of all these splits within SGM? Maybe Mahaney should listen to his own teaching.

  10. Stunned says:

    Cult Watcher,

    I have absolutely no desire for the kids of Harvey’s to be exposed like that. They were never in leadership and never sought it. It wasn’t their fault to be born into a family of SGM leaders nor to have had the upbringing they have had. I don’t believe for one second that it is anyone’s business what their sins are. It would be different if their sin needed to come to public light so that others could be safe, as in the case of pedophiles. But none of the Harvey kids ever sought the leadership. If someone wants to expose their dad’s sins, fine but I don’t believe we have any business doing that to the kids of leaders who never asked to be in that position.

  11. Stunned says:

    PS. For that matter I find it disgusting for the times Dave Harvey and others stood around and let other leaders’ children take the blame for their parent’s failings. It reminds me of Saul/Paul who stood by and watched the coats while Steven was stoned to death. Saul/Paul should have been crying out, “No! Stop!” DH should have been doing the same. Find fault with a leader all you want but do NOT call the kids out. That was some of the most evil I found at Cov Fel. My heart still aches for some of the leaders and ex leaders kids. Can you imagine being responsible for your dad’s livelihood? That is messed up. And a pressure no child, adult or underaged, should ever experience, let alone in the “name of God.” Let’s hope Dave’s kids are afforded more grace than he gave to other people’s kids.

  12. Jenn Grover says:

    Stunned #10 – perfect response – thanks!

    Let me add, if someone wants to take t task the CFC pastors for the way they have deal with this, it is fine. This story is about Dave, not the kids.

    Cult Watcher – let me challenge you to show actual care about the people involved and not just interest in exposing people. You were not a part of SGM so I can understand the disconnect. However, most of were heavily invested and even if we think things have turned the correct course of action, it does not mean we do not care about the individuals involved. Dave’s departure is another sad chapter in a pretty dismal book.

  13. Waters says:

    THANKYOU,STUNNED —- #10 & #11

  14. Kris says:

    Stunned said,

    My heart still aches for some of the leaders and ex leaders kids. Can you imagine being responsible for your dad’s livelihood? That is messed up. And a pressure no child, adult or underaged, should ever experience, let alone in the “name of God.” Let’s hope Dave’s kids are afforded more grace than he gave to other people’s kids.

    I agree with everything you wrote in your last two comments. I don’t really care what the Harvey “kids” (it’s my understanding that his offspring are actually all either older teens or young adults, possibly even adults in their mid-to-late 20s?) may have done. This was one of the pieces of SGM’s dysfunction that should have been addressed and corrected a long time ago – this idea that leaders must exert (or even CAN exert) control over their adult children’s spiritual destinies and decisions.

    I remember how, when we were first part of our SGM church, a couple different people shared with us the story of Benny Phillips’ temporary fall from grace because of his adult daughter’s elopement. The way these SGMers spoke of the situation, it was obvious they greatly admired the way SGM leaders took their parenting duties seriously. Initially, I admired what seemed like their integrity, too. Having come from a church where a lot of longtime members’ kids were really badly behaved, Guy and I thought it sounded like SGM had this area under better control.

    But when I thought about the Phillips family’s situation later, I started thinking it involved a weird overreaction. I mean, Benny temporarily lost his job and his status (to where he worked as the church janitor for awhile) because his adult (18 or 19-year-old) daughter ran off to get married? Wasn’t that actually a sign that the daughter had internalized her parents’ teachings about the importance of marriage? It wasn’t like she ran off to just “live in sin” with some guy – she eloped.

    Yet people in the SGM organization thought this “scandal” was worthy of the temporary step-down. They spoke very admiringly of Mr. Phillips’ great humility, of his willingness to walk through a season of correction, of his restoration.

    All the while, his daughter had to watch her dad temporarily lose his job and his status because she wanted to have some control over her own life and marry the guy she wanted to marry when she wanted to marry him.

    This level of legalism needed to be addressed openly a long time ago. Instead of openness, though, it appears that the SGM decision-makers have quietly changed things behind the scenes, without ever apologizing to all the pastors who were censured under the old thinking…or, more importantly, apologizing to the adult children who had to endure the organization’s harshness.

  15. Elle says:

    Forget about Dave’s kids…Foot said (comment #1) that Dave Harvey has taken money from SGM? What is that about? Or do you just mean all the trips to Wales and elsewhere that he took where his wife came along? Or the conferences,lunches and retreats the CFC wives also attended?

  16. Steve240 says:

    I would also agree that Havey’s kids issues shouldn’t be exposed. As pointed out, they didn’t ask to be born into an SGM Leader’s family and are not pursuing leadership within SGM.

    What nees to be exposed if it happened is the alleged coverup of Harvey’s family issues while Harvey was disciplining other leaders.

    My understanding is that Harvey participated in C.J. Mahaney blackmailing Larry Tomczak and agreed to the coverup rather than exposing the sin. Thus it wouldn’t suprise me if the allegations being made about Harvey are true. After all, if Harvey thinks it is OK for blackmail to occur and be covered up then chances are he wouldn’t have any issues hiding his own sin.

    Maybe this is why Harvey went down to Richmond and gave a message that was seemed to extend a lot of “grace” to Gene Emerson?” Maybe Gene had knowledge of Harvey’s issues or Harvey felt he had to do a “favor” for Gene in case he might need Gene’s help one day if/when Gene became aware of his sin. Again this is just conjecture in this paragraph but is plausible.

  17. Steve240 says:

    Kris said:

    I agree with everything you wrote in your last two comments. I don’t really care what the Harvey “kids” (it’s my understanding that his offspring are actually all either older teens or young adults, possibly even adults in their mid-to-late 20s?) may have done. This was one of the pieces of SGM’s dysfunction that should have been addressed and corrected a long time ago — this idea that leaders must exert (or even CAN exert) control over their adult children’s spiritual destinies and decisions.

    As I have said before, this is quite a contradiction to the group supposedly believing in Calvinism. Calvinism teaches that it is God alone who decides if someone is going to be saved. Those who God doesn’t “elect” to salvation have no chance of becoming a believer. Those not “elected experience preterition or being passed by for salvation.

    Just baffling that they have never addressed this contradiction of practice vs. supposed belief.

  18. Cult Watcher says:

    Didn’t mean unnecessary exposure of other people. Just something more specific than “family issues.” So he has children who aren’t serving God and therefore isn’t qualified to be an elder. But before his children went astray, he removed other pastors who didn’t have their children under control. Including the most famous case of all, Larry Tomczak. Got it.

  19. Jenn Grover says:

    What I have seen in SGM, as a reaction to leaders having issues with their own kids, is a reaction that goes to the other end of the spectrum. This is what the Bible says about leaders:

    1 Timothy 3:1-7
    The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,[b] sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

    Shouldn’t this be the standard?

  20. Kris says:

    Like I said, when Guy and I first arrived at SGM, we thought the attention paid to a leader’s family’s behavior was a good thing. I still feel that way, to a point. But the idea of holding a pastor accountable for when his adult child deviates from SGM norms like courtship seems way too legalistic and harsh.

    The bigger issue is, if SGM has indeed moved away from this harsh legalism when it comes to leaders’ teen or adult children, then they need to say this. They also need to apologize to all those who were disciplined under the old policies. If they don’t do that, then those times when, for instance, the president’s son’s pot use is unremarked and overlooked, make them seem like they are just showing favoritism for certain leaders at the top.

  21. turtle says:

    The president’s son’s pot use is unremarked and overlooked because the president dosen’t believe it’s true. All were lying

  22. Jenn Grover says:

    I would say if the adult son is no longer part of the household, you are current, unless the parenting issues where raised while the son was growing up and those bringing the concerns were rebuffed. That is the unknown in the Harvey story, although Deut. 32:35 alluded that this might actually be the case.

  23. Kris says:

    The president knows it’s true. But he’s created a world where he can play his Jedi mind tricks on his followers, to where if he tells them it’s not true, they won’t challenge him.

    And again – for the record – I don’t care if the former president’s son had issues. But considering the culture the former president created and enforced, his hypocrisy is stunning and should be enough to disqualify him from having influence in the organization, even if all he’s doing is preaching at a new local church and pulling strings behind the scenes.

  24. formersgmer says:

    Kris:

    Benny Phillips removal as the fairfax senior pastor involved much more than the behavior of his daughter. That incident merely alloed SGM to dive more deeply into many staff issues which had long gone unaddressed. In fact, the issues raised by Todd Twining in his resignation were very similar to the issues in Fairfax.

  25. turtle says:

    Kris, I totally agree with you. I heard that said son’s parents don’t believe he did pot. If CJ dose know, then he’s worse than I could ever have imagined.

  26. Jimmy says:

    Kris,

    I know you are the moderator, but for crying out loud, how could you possibly know that the president (CJ) knows it is true (Chad his son smoking pot)?

    Were you there? Are you inside of CJ’s head?

  27. Sam McGee says:

    Jimmy #26

    Some of us were at CLC long enough to know of several instances where CJ was confronted about Chad’s drug use. (For example, one time was in the grocery store). For a place that so condemned gossip and slander, it had one of the most advanced black markets of information out there;) How else were folks supposed to find stuff out? And, no, the irony doesn’t escape me.

  28. Jenn Grover says:

    For the record – re: criteria for being a leader – I was mostly speaking in generalities or as they relate to Dave, not the former president. I think we mostly agree Kris.

    My concern is that in an attempt to appear as though they are moving from legalism to grace in this area, they seem to be throwing out legitimate biblical standards.

  29. formersgmer says:

    Did Dave resign as a pastor or as a member? Whatever the case and whatever his sins may be, as Brent pointed out, Dave Harvey was the most gifted church planter in SGM and that is a big loss for SGM. However, the truly sad part is that a man who wrote a book on rescuing ambition appears to be undone becasue his pursuit of seminary degrees and ministry fruitfulness (ambition) caused him to neglect his family during their formative years.

  30. Bridget says:

    Jimmy –

    It is beyond me why the only folks you ever seem to want to defend are CJ and his family. You never seem too worried about the “truth” or “who knows what” about any other family discussed, especially the everyday/lowly members of SGM. Don’t the Mahaneys have enough friends in high places (RBDs) and money to defend themselves? Seriously, they seem to have their backsides covered pretty well compared ANY OTHER person that has been damaged by the SGM machine.

  31. JesusIsMyCovering says:

    Kris said: “But the idea of holding a pastor accountable for when his adult child deviates from SGM norms like courtship seems way too legalistic and harsh.”

    I’ve been pondering that subject myself as it’s typical in the family-integrated church culture to have grown (18 yrs and over) children living at home. And I’m not opposed to that, but it opens up the question of “how long are pastors responsible for their offspring?” When the children reach “adulthood” at 18? (Incidentally, in some countries you are deemed an adult at 15. In Jewish tradition 13 begins your adulthood.) Does the fact that you still live at home mean that your father (pastor) should continue to have you in subjection? (1 Tim 3:4)

    And, by the way, has anyone read the book, “Authority, Accountability and the Apostolic Movement” by Dr. Stephen Crosby? On pages 192-194 he talks about having the home in order. His take is that once children are adults, pastors are no longer responsible for having them in subjection. And he writes, ” Adolescence didn’t exist in the first century. It is a modern twentieth-century phenomenon. For a Jewish male you went from childhood to adulthood at your bar mitzvah….If you want to be strictly “biblical,” having an adolescent in the home is having another adult in the home, not a child.”

  32. Jimmy says:

    Bridget,

    I was not actually attempting to “defend” CJ. I have no idea of whether Chad was into pot or not.

    My point was that the “reading of the minds and declaring what is in their hearts” of those who are hated on this blog is an unbiblical practice. I am opposed to this for all (not just CJ).

  33. turtle says:

    Jimmy, I was at CLC for years. My kids have hung out with Chad and seen him personally misbehave for years. I’ve been living through all this garbage for years.
    An older child of mine was shunned and kicked out of covenant Life school for trivial matters at a young age. Certainly nothing like what Chad did. So, no, this is not ok.

  34. Steve240 says:

    Kris said:

    The president knows it’s true. But he’s created a world where he can play his Jedi mind tricks on his followers, to where if he tells them it’s not true, they won’t challenge him.

    Good point about Mahaney. Even if they know it is true they trivialize what he has done while they wouldn’t do the same trivializing if it were another leader, especially a lower ranking leader (for example regular or assistant pastor vs. on leadership team).

    – Mahaney’s son smokes pot and Mahaney is allowed to cover it up while other kid’s incur penalties including expulstion.

    – Mahaney doesn’t attend Care Group for a year or so while it is an imposed requirement on others that C.J. the leader must have instituted.

    – When Mahaney’s sin and hypocrisy was exposed he flees to another church when in the past he has made other pastors forced to step down remain at their home church.

    – When Mahaney’s blackmailing of Larry Tomczak came out they call it “coercion” and showing “bad judgement” and see no reason why he should be disqualified.

    For the first 3 items, too bad Mahaney couldn’t have used them as an eye opener and learning experience to determine that maybe the standards he set were too high etc. A shame he didn’t. Sadly Mahaney took the Pharisaical approach.

  35. Kris says:

    This is the Achilles heel of SGM leadership – the fact that the farther up the leadership food chain one goes, the more all accountability hinges on the leader’s own willingness to admit culpability. If the former president wouldn’t admit something – if he just pretended he didn’t think it was true – then nothing could be done about it and the truth would never be known.

  36. Kris says:

    Jimmy,

    I object to your phrase, “all who are hated on these blogs.”

    I don’t hate anyone. I don’t know any of these guys personally. I have dim views of many of the decisions they’ve made and how they have handled their leadership responsibilities. I don’t like the way they have treated people and believe their authoritarianism is wrong.

    But I don’t hate them. Calling them out for what I don’t like about their behavior is not “hating.” If so, then Jesus Himself was guilty of “hatred” in how He treated the Pharisees.

  37. Steve240 says:

    Jimmy

    Maybe should remember the old phrase that SGM taught which was:

    Hate the sin but
    Love the sinner

    I am sure that is the motivation of most of us that post here. We hate the hypocrisy especially the hypocrisy of leadership.

    Steve

  38. Mr Stretch says:

    I don’t hate anyone. My heart cries out for thier blindness and the destruction they leave in their wake. How many families must SGM destroy for the sake of the purity of the gospel?

  39. Mr Stretch says:

    I give you some possible reasons for Dave’s leaving.

    a.) he stood up to CJ too many times and was run out of town.
    b.) Dave sees the writing on the wall and wanted to get out before SGM imploads
    c.) Dave is beginning to see SGM for how it really is
    d.) the sandbox that Dave and CJ play in is no longer big enough for the both of them
    e.) he’s tired of the whole thing and just needs a break

  40. Jenn Grover says:

    Jimmy’s comments reveal the heart of the problem in SGM: leaders feel no compulsion, whatsoever, to be transparent and therefore leave people to find out truth via these “awful blogs” and draw their own conclusions. They feel they have special discernment that puts them above transparency. Therefore, culpability and accountability diminishes in significance as they, unknowingly, see themselves as not subject to others.

  41. Cult Watcher says:

    “I know you are the moderator, but for crying out loud, how could you possibly know that the president (CJ) knows it is true (Chad his son smoking pot)?
    Were you there? Are you inside of CJ’s head?”

    She’s been doing this for 5 years. For every one person who posts, 10 contact her behind the scenes. She’s not in the habit of making claims without sources.

    Furthermore, C.J. is obsessed with knowing and controlling everything in SGM that affects him. And like Kris and Brent, he has his sources. He’s even got people monitoring this blog and reporting to him what’s said. And Chad’s pot use has been discussed plenty on this blog. Especially after Chad and Dad hypocritically bashed Lance Armstrong for lying about drug use. So it’s inconceivable that other people know what his son did, but he doesn’t. His son was tranferred to another school. Other boys who smoked pot with him were expelled. You think all this happened without C.J. knowing and being involved? His own son? Seriously.

  42. Steve240 says:

    You think all this happened without C.J. knowing and being involved? His own son?

    Good point. If nothing else C.J. didn’t want to investigate because he knew he wouldn’t like the answer he would find.

  43. Debra Baker says:

    After all these years, a body would think that I could sit back and be satisfied but I’m not.

    I am grieved to my core and I agree with Stunned’s statements. Please-please do not speculate about the children. I was at CFC when three of the four were babies and, let me assure you, they bore the brunt of harsh teaching.

    They knew they lived in a parent-centered home. They did not enjoy the privilege that Chad has been afforded.

    I noticed that Dave has weaknesses where the rest of us have sin. Methinks in their paradigm, some animals are more equal than others but the real issue is that we all sin and fall short. (that is why Jesus came and died for us.) It is the sin-sniffing, the legalism, the never being good enough, the woman issues, speaking words into me, kicking my family out and not one of these leaders can live up to their own standard.

    A man-made paradigm.

    A toxic paradigm.

    Do not make it worse for these poor kids, they need a break and their family needs to heal.

    And someone over there needs to acknowledge this issue and start owning their own issues and leave a smaller toxic spiritual footprint behind them in the future.

  44. seeking the city to come says:

    #29–formersgmer–
    I find it ironic that Dave Harvey could be regarded as “the most gifted church planter in SGM” considering that, to the best of my knowledge, he himself never planted a single church. (I was at Covenant Fellowship for 8 years. I graduated from there in 2001.)

  45. KAZ says:

    I consider this to be good news. If Dave has left and is having problems he may now be open to non-SGM methods. While being a SGM pastor he would have no choice but to try and solve his problems the SGM way using SGM people. Its a start in the right direction and hopfully God will lead him to a place where he can receive Gods Grace …….

  46. Jenn Grover says:

    FormerSGMer and Seeking the city:

    I couldn’t agree with Seeking the City more. I think it is a stretch to even refer to him as a church planter, let alone an expert. He never had to do the work himself. Some of his great wisdom included having the tone deaf Mark Prater lead worship during the Pittsburgh church’s first year so Mark could establish his authority as a pastor.” Praise the Lord that his then 15 year old daughter had enough judgement to turn him down at the soundboard when he sang. But that was nothing compared to his bright idea to drag Mark Prater back to Philly when the church was still fairly new. Then there was his fancy new evaluation sheet for helping determine if people are “gifted enough” to plant a church. That list had a lot on it but not a lot to do with the 1 Timothy passage I cited earlier.

    If he was their expert, SGM had little business planting churches. Truth be known, of the, “SGM Apostles” Larry was the true church planter. It wasn’t well-known, but Larry wrote a book called the “Church Planter’s Handbook” and he drew from his actual experience versus his experience telling other people what to do.

  47. Sick With Worry says:

    Some thoughts on my man Diamond Dave…. and “An Honest Take on a Tough Week”

    It appears that one-by-one the old guard has been disposed of, and it is being done incrementally rather than all at once. Like we will not notice. The board is doing what many of us want, but not being honest and not confessing the sins of the past or repenting to individuals. This is marketing at work – the only way that they can attempt to appease the pro CJ crowd the the “CJ must go” crowd.

    If you think CJ is disqualified…. you got your wish. If you think CJ should still be president… the Board did not fire him, he stepped down. Diamond Dave… he just kinda faded away.

    I think Dave is smart… probably smarter than CJ when it comes to actual leadership and executive ability. With CJ gone, and Dave not being the heir apparent any longer, it makes sense for him to leave. I believe that there is some truth to the fact that he stood up to CJ and got burnt, but since he was already interim president and will not become the permanent one, he needed to fall on his sword. His salary as a regular elder was probably out of whack from the others due to his years on the board and tenure at the church. How could Jared be an effective Sr Pastor with Dave still roaming the halls? Dave had to leave.

    Dave’s kids are none of my business, but at the same time the I Timothy 3 requirements are pretty straightforward. Dave’s sinful practice of holding up double-standards has left his family exposed to inevitable criticism and questioning. Jesus warned that we will be judged according to the way that we have judged others. SGM leadership is experiencing this now. My guess is that many pastors have been removed over the years in order to make room for friends and family, and when this was done the removal was justified by putting the person’s life under a microscope. It has been documented here. It is a faithful narrative of a sad tale.

    I agree with Kris that the amount of “judging” that goes on here is pretty light considering the free nature of the internet. I think most of the regular commenters seem to be pretty fair, and I have not noticed much of what I would consider “hate”. I think we all know that Diamond Dave is a human being, and I personally with him and his family many years of enjoying God’s grace. I think we almost all agree with that. This will all pass in time, and Dave will have grandkids and great grandkids that I wish all the best.

    By the way – what is up with the stupid pastors’ photos on the CFC website where each pastor has the same dumb look on his face and part of their head is missing. Is this some silly marketing trick?

    Also – can someone please tell Tim Shorey to get back to his church? Hey CJ – if you have a reader here…. can you consider sending Tim back?

  48. Ellie says:

    Mary,

    thank you for the link in #44, that was excellent!

  49. Jenn Grover says:

    Sick With Worry – what a great post. You are quite right about just because they are doing certain thing it does not reflect change because they are not doing the important things.

    I wish Tim would go back to Trinity Fellowship – is that an option? Don’t they have another guy as Sr. Pastor now?