Rachel Denhollander Appears on Fox News
March 17, 2018 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
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C.J. Mahaney used the situation with JT to BLACKMAIL LT. You do raise a good point that C.J. Mahaney was willing to not do anything about what JT did as long as LT went along and didn’t leave. C.J. was especially demanding LT be quiet about his disagreement with the group moving towards Calvinism. It is likely that C.J. would conceal other things if it would protect the image of Sovereign Grace.
I said this a long time ago that is C.J. Mahaney was willing to blackmail someone and hide his sin then I wondered what else Mahaney had done and thought was OK? Now it sounds like this was concealing cases of children being molested.
We already know that C.J. was able to conceal his son’s pot smoking when it would have been a disqualifier for any other leader within SGM. Mahaney showed there he had no issue with rules not applying to him.
R Denhollander’s proclomation that in the Evangelical church structures there is: “a systematic burying of reports of sexual abuse; forgive and forget; not reporting to police; moving leadership around who either were involved in abuse or knew of abuse….continues and there is NO accountability.”
In the interview on Fox she states: “….if my abuse had not been Larry Nasser but instead was in Sovereign Grace Ministries under the leadership of CJ Mahaney….I would not only NOT have evangelical support, I would be actively VILIFIED AND LIED ABOUT by every single evangelical leader out there.”-
SGM pooh-poohed Denhollanders request for G.R.A.C.E to open an unbiased investigation on behalf of victims. However, it looks as though the (genuine!) Gospel-centered, Jesus loving Denhollander has (graciously!) (appealed!) for justice on behalf of the weak, the victims, the silenced — as Christ has exhorted us to do.
Upon any responsive investigations, the controlling polity and structure of SGM will then be exposed in the light of day—ie, in the national news. This would open opportunity (again) for leaders confessions, and true repentance. Will this happen??? Jesus came to “bear witness to the Truth” —always, there is the battles for the truth.
Brent – I think it would be more productive for you to work on your book.
Waters – Good to hear from you again! I believe an independent investigation of SGM/SGC will largely depend, as it did in Rachaels’s sexual abuse case, on the collective outcry and support from those in the shadows who found courage to come forward as she led the charge. There was a rally cry of injustice and people responded.
I realize all of us who have experienced various forms of abuse from SGM are probably exhausted from the long battles we’ve engaged in over the past decade. I know we have been disappointed, discouraged, and disheartened many times over the years when we thought justice would finally prevail, only to see our hopes dashed.
However, I trust we can see how God has been faithful to not let SGM out of the heavenly headlock He’s had them in for so long.
Because of God’s tenacity, I believe we will surely see justice prevail and more importantly see God glorified by either the repentance or the undoing of SGM.
I think it is very important all SGMSurvivors make their voices heard via letters, emails, interviews, etc to whatever media source is carrying her story, … which has now become our story; so that an overwhelming outcry will resonate and gather momentum throughout the Christian community.
There is more at stake here than our own abuse, as Rachael has so well demonstrated. She has used her experience to gain a platform from which to have an exponential impact.
Like Waters said, not only will the cover up of sexual abuse be exposed but the “controlling polity and structure of SGM will then be exposed in the light of day.”
Systemic spiritual abuse precipitated by a perversion of spiritual authority is the head of the snake. I believe it is what creates the opportunity for all other types of abuse to occur in the church.
Brothers and sisters, we have another opportunity to before us, an opportunity for our voices to be heard, as well as to make a difference for the next generation, a generation who has likely been disillusioned and confused by what has taken place regarding Christianity in their lifetime. This includes SGM, Mars Hill, and many other organizations who’ve also experienced spiritual abuse.
I’m praying this will be the decisive episode for SGM. I’m praying those who’ve been adversely affected by SGM will see God’s justice prevail. I’m also praying that somehow all of this will cause our children and the younger generation to sit up and take notice ….. God is faithful and He can be trusted to vindicate His name.
5years and Brent,
I have removed your back-and-forth. As much as I think it’s interesting and worthy of discussion, and as much as I absolutely believe SGM’s/SGC’s issues are FAR GREATER than the abuse coverups (which are really just a symptom of the dysfunctional system, not the main problem), it’s better to keep the super lengthy accusations/refutations out of this conversation for the moment. Maybe later.
Kris- no problem!
B Donkey- nice post. “Systemic spiritual abuse precipitated by a perversion of spiritual authority is the head of the snake. I believe it is what creates the opportunity for all other types of abuse to occur in the church.”
Yes. Setting up strict guidelines for the future about how to immediately deal with pedophiles and other sex abusers doesn’t get to the root, or suddenly make a place safe and acceptable. I wonder if Rachel knows that or if she just knows about the sex abuse cases.
forgot to add….
I do hope this link can stay, it got erased with the other post.
https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?14,113601,page=1
19 page collection of SGM related material. A lot of posts Kris made as opening posts are in there, and it paints a picture of the overall SGM atmosphere. It is more concise than trying to send somebody to this website. And it has statements by CJ, Harvey, Harris, etc so its reasonably representative of all sides although not up to date. Right now it would be my “go to” link to learn about SGM. I reread the whole thing the past week and it does not take an unreasonable amount of time to do so.
One of the problems I see with people’s desire for an investigation is – the attention span of the internet. Rachel spoke, a lot of people listened but in this era of crazy politics, that’s yesterday’s news and we’re on to the NEXT BIG THING – whatever it is.
Other than “survivors” who has any real desire to pursue a long, drawn out investigation of what has happened in the increasingly distant past. C.J., Dave Harvey, Harris, et al. are gone. Do the surviving SGM churches have any desire to bring to life sleeping dogs? Probably not.
So thinking that this is going to crest in an investigation of SGM’s past seems highly unlikely.
My thoughts only.
Drew C.J. is not gone. He is the Sr. Pastor of the Louisville KY Sovereign Grace Church. Though perhaps not technically in leadership of what is now called Sovereign Grace Church (formerly SGM) I am sure he still has significant power leading this group.
I do see your point on “attention spans.” My guess is that the leadership of SGC is doing whatever they can to hold off with hopes that the attention for this will die down. Hopefully it will be different this time but sadly in the past this spotlight has had limited results. A significant number of churche$ did leave $GC and their contributions.
I still really wonder how SGC can claim they are a Christian group with all the action/hiding/inaction that I have seen over the years and especially since Brent’s documents came to light. They will have to give an account one day to God for their actions. I really wonder if they have taken this to heart at all.
ONE other things: Independent investigation require $$$$$$.
So, who’s volunteering to pay for this? Kris and Guy? [ a little humor there ]
_____
I could be wrong but I thought a couple years ago somebody started a “gofundme” page to pursue a lawsuit against SGM. I don’t know what became of that but probably not much.
I agree that it is unlikely another investigation will be done, as long as SGM / SGC is the one footing the bill. However, what this whole conversation has done is discredit the so-called “independent” investigation done in the past, and which SGM / SGC has relied on as proof of their cooperation and evidence that the leadership never did anything improper.
Rachael Denhollander dissected it in such a way that it should be difficult for non-SGM/SGC organizations to continue supporting SGM/SGC without questions being raised about the basis for such support and their own credibility.
And whether the spotlight fades or not, people outside SGM / SGC plus people within SGM / SGC who are not afraid to read things critical of SGM/SGC, will at least have a tool to help them better understand something fundamental about SGM/SGC history.
Also, different line of commentary – if Ms. Denhollander’s perspective is biased/unreliable because of her status as a victim (as SGM/SGC leadership stated), what does that say about their perspective being similiarly biased because they are the accused?
Or don’t they see the correlation?
Drew said, “Other than “survivors” who has any real desire to pursue a long, drawn out investigation of what has happened in the increasingly distant past.”
Who has a desire to see justice done to victims (and additionally, who else desires to see the church as a spotless bride?) I guess I’d start out with God. Then to that list, I’d add people who value justice.
I’d say that list is pretty sufficient right there.
Drew, I’ve never heard of an independent investigation fund raiser. How sure are you that that actually happened and never took off? I do know that Boz’s group GRACE has said they would do one, but am unaware of the costs.
I had an interaction with an SGM pastor this weekend. 1. It reminded me how glad I am no longer dealing with SGM. 2. It showed me that SGM’s response is to double down and actively choose to ignore any evidence presented. Given this seems to be where things are, I expect Denhollander, after some time will present other evidence, that she has alluded to, beyond what has already been made known. I believe this stiff-necked behavior will eventually lead to a long, slow death for SGM. At some point, if the evidence is bad enough, T4G will have to sever ties or they will all suffer financially.
Rachael D. actually committed to spearhead the necessary fundraising for the independent investigation if SGC were to agree to it and donate to it herself so that there is no extra cost to SGC. It’s in the 5th paragraph of this Facebook post on her account:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/rachael-denhollander/public-response-to-sovereign-grace-churches/1694664773947169/
Balaam’s Donkey, I LOVE your inspiring words! Those were some of my initial thoughts as I watched Rachael’s story, but you brought even more inspiration to it. While I have not been “involved” in these issues lately, I have continued in prayer regarding all of it,for all of those victimized-not just my family. I have been, and continue to do a lot of still necessary healing. I am confident that God will heal my family from all of those years, and am so encouraged to see Him bring this back to the forefront again!I also love how lovingly and gently my Savior is, as He shows me where I went wrong-not for judgment, but for growth and for me to see His everlasting faithfulness; His persistent love. I don’t have as much time to read and respond to things, but I spend a lot of time in prayer. I am encouraged by what I see on this page today, and just wanted to say thank you! <3
“Who has a desire to see justice done to victims (and additionally, who else desires to see the church as a spotless bride?) I guess I’d start out with God. Then to that list, I’d add people who value justice.”
+++++++
God doesn’t need an independent investigation and He doesn’t actually need people who value justice [ as they see it. ]
___________
All I’m saying; more than just a few times in the last several years people have gotten their hopes up that justice would be served – as they saw it. To some extent, at least, they won. C.J. really doesn’t appear to be a factor in SGM polity, I don’t think SGM is “sheperding” any more; home-schoolers are no longer deified as the only way to go and people like Harvey, Harris, Detwiler et.al are gone. The Washingtonian is NOT going to do another article on SGM’s past and SGM leadership has NO REASON TO THINK their detractors would actually change their minds if an “independent investigation” cleared them.
BTW, I don’t think any SGM churches were actually charged with a crime were they? Others may know but it appears only Morales was ever charged with a crime [ very guilty ] and I don’t think he was paid staff was he?
Drew,
Foundational Christianity is…God ‘works’, moves through His people.Through prayer and action.
God places great value in justice – “Righteousness and Justice are the foundation of Your throne.”(PS 89:15)
Working out justice is one type of ‘good works’ we do. For example, the decades long battles to stop abortion has included vigilant and consistent prayer, and legal actions. Of course, not every Christian is called to every battle. I have learned, if a particular battle has entered my ‘field’, I listen for and obey the Lords directions. He is the Captain, He knows the end from the beginning!
Balaams Donkey,
Your post on 3/17 is an excellent synopsis for the battle we are currently in. Highlights:
“I think it is very important ….to make our voices heard to whatever media source is carrying
her (R.D.) story.” — Currently, that would be World Magazine and Fox News…any others?
“SYSTEMIC SPIRITUAL ABUSE PRECIPITATED BY A PERVERSION OF SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY IS THE HEAD OF THE SNAKE. I BELIEVE IT IS WHAT CREATES THE OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL OTHER TYPES OF ABUSE TO OCCUR IN THE CHURCH.” The head of the snake must be axed to stop the slithering PERVERSION of spiritual authority.
Drew, if you think CJ isnt involved with major decisions regarding SGM, you are naive. If he isnt the face of SGM, why isn’t the new SGM leader the one headlining big events, instead of CJ?
But, more to the point, it was never about getting rid of CJ. It was always about open, honest, transparent discussion about the wrongs that have happened, accompanied by true repentance, and to protect other kids from being molested. Some of these examples of moving pastors because their sons have abused other kids are not old and their are kids still at risk. Moreover, until SGM comes clean and also actually try to understand pedophiles and their behavior, every kid in an SGM church is at risk, IMHO.
Besides, if, and I am say I’m not if, because I feel as though this has not been confirmed in a capacity that would stand up in court (but believe there is a possibility that it could be) but if CJ bribed LT, threatening to reveal a situation where sexual abuse went on reported, then there is evidence that contrary to his claims, CJ did cover up sexual abuse. Furthermore, others have reported his firsthand involvement in covering it up in Fairfax. Why does this matter? CJ is the senior pastor of a church, where this type of behavior could likely continue. The SGM loyal have made it clear that they put, “protecting an elder” above everything else.
Drew, genuine question, why do you participate here? The underlying message in so many of your posts seem to say, “Please, everyone, shut up and go away now.” They come across to me as really negative of anyone here trying to do what they feel convicted that they should do or to discuss. Can you help me to understand what your motivation for being here is? I’m not saying you don’t have a right to be here and participate, I’m just confused as to what I often see in what you write. Like that time recently when you asked a very direct question about Rachael Denhollander, which seemed to throw her into a bad light, only to say in your next post that you already knew what the answer was.
What’s happening with you which makes you participate here if you just think everyone should shut up and leave SGM alone? I remember the day when people from SGM / SGC and the pastor’s college would allegedly come here and pretend to be someone else to discourage open discourse, and it often feels the same way when I read your posts. Am I way off?
I went back and read something that makes me realize that the independent investigation only covered CLC, not SGM. Of course I knew that, but I guess I had CLC and SGM/SGC blurred in my mind (I had that problem even when I went to CLC). So SGM has never undergone an investigation at all, even though many of the leaders who went to Kentucky were named in the lawsuit because they were leaders at CLC when the events occurred. I think that is a distinction worth emphasizing.
Out there, SGM had a $400,000+ investigation by AOR. And SGM is ok but this blog is bad.
Then there was the independent investigation related to the lawsuit. Look how that went. Wasn’t it another hundred grand at least?
Do we really need to waste money on another? Isn’t Grant Layman’s statement under oath enough to show the lies?
I think Justice is best served by finding some foreign mission group that works with street kids and tries to keep them out of a life of prostitution. If CJ goes to jail that doesn’t help the millions of victims all over the world. Hubby and I help out one group in one city in one country, and there are countless others. I think more healing and happiness would come from sending money to good Christian missions than blowing more hundreds of thousands on CJ. I hate to watch another cent be wasted. Maybe a collection for Wallace and Happymom and the others would be nice.
Maybe I will change my mind on this but right now I think money could be better spent.
Keep in mind our nation faces potential severe hyperinflation, with the collapse of the Petro dollar, and unfunded liabilities for future social security, Medicare, etc. Unless they default on bonds and plunge many people into ruin, they have to print more money. Within 10 years our standard of living could drop in half. CJ stole so much of our money, don’t send another nickle in his direction, even for one more investigation. Pay off debt, save the best you can. Hey, I could be totally wrong, but at least think about it.
I am not necessarily endorsing future investigations. My main point is that the previous investigations should not be used to reassure people. And of course SGM/SGC will not permit outside investigators to come in, because they know they do have situations to cover (moving pastors around, CJ’s attempt at blackmail, etc.).
But I do not subscribe to any of your reasons for not having an investigation. I think we do have a responsibility to hold SGM/SGC accountable in some way (to the extent that many of us once supported them with money or simply attendance/endorsement). And your last paragraph seems irrelevant to this discussion – or at best, it sounds like an excuse to not do anything (which I don’t think is really your attitude).
5year, to quote RachelDenhollandwr, “How much is a little girl worth?” In SGM it could be asked, “How much is a little girl or boy worth?”
That is why an investigation is still necessary. It’s not just about justice for the past. It’s about protecting children, now. I honestly worry for my friends who did not leave SGM and the safety of their children.
SGM has shown no demonstrable change in their attitudes towards handling of abuse situations and I believe many, if not most of us believe children are still at risk.
A new Facebook Support Group for PARENTS of sexual abuse victims started by Ann and Richard Cook, parents of a courageous sexual abuse survivor from the Nathaniel Morales’ trial.
( http://wjla.com/…/nathaniel-morales-of-covenant-life-church… )
Often, dads and moms of sex abuse victims are left on their own struggling with years of grief, anger, stigma, sorrow and the emotional rollercoaster that can follow the trauma of sexual abuse occurring to one or more of their children.
This is a safe space for them. #MyChildToo
https://www.facebook.com/groups/OurChildToo/about/ (from the group’s description):
“Our Child Too. With just three words you know who we are. We are parents whose child was sexually abused.
Inspired by the social media tags such as MeToo and TimesUp we choose these three words to identify our outreach to other parents whose child or children were sexually abused. We hope to provide a place for parents to give voice their own struggle, their own pain, and their own healing, as together we guide and care for our precious children to healing.”
Is it too late to have a criminal trial? The lawsuit was a for a civil trial. I don’t know all the legal technicalities of the subject, but wouldn’t justice be better served by a criminal trial? Or were they allowed clergy confidentiality privilege back then and a criminal trial would be a waste? A verdict could make them pay out restitution money even if they don’t go to jail.
Jenn- I think churches all over the nation will handle these things better. I think the internet probably scares them. People are fed up and very quick to post online. In that sense I would not worry about SGM kids more than any other church. I would think SGM is being very careful to avoid anything else. The new book of church order has a short phrase about calling the cops but I don’t feel like looking for it now.
The real problem is that it happens in the first place. So much pedophilia is being exposed nationally and SGM stories are a drop in the bucket. I don’t know what the answer is except to pray for revival and do whatever you can to guard kids in your sphere of influence. It is all so horrible.
By the way for clarity- my crack about CJ stealing money does not meant theft in the legal sense. I am sure it was in keeping with statute law. It was a reference to the way the cult operated to drain your finances, and let him give huge financial gifts to his buddies and children. I just don’t want to see God’s people drained of more money if it is not God’s will.
I think I am wrong about verdicts. Criminal trials you only go to jail, but civil trials you pay fines? Is that right? Well anyway, can there be a criminal trial?
Jenn,
I agree.
Gang… no matter what, there WILL NOT be an independent investigation. It is a losing proposition in the eyes of Mahaney. He KNOWS he is guilty, as do the rest of that leadership team. They won’tdo anything.
That said, I do envision “Lig”, Mohler and the rest of the enablers of Mahaney to get a ton of pressure to leave SGM in the dust. I believe that will happen.
Eventually SGM will change their names again and continue their man- centered worship of Mahaney and future leaders. Those that will remain will continue their ungodly support of their idols.
5 Years said, “The lawsuit was a for a civil trial. I don’t know all the legal technicalities of the subject, but wouldn’t justice be better served by a criminal trial?”
I think only God knows which is the better way. I find God seldom moves in a straight line, and what we think is best is often not what He thinks is the best way. (So much higher is the sky above the earth, are His ways above our ways. OK, I didn’t actually look it up, so I can’t remember that scripture word for word, but ya feel me, right? ;) )
For that reason, I think supporting people in following God however He leads them is really the best thing, rather than trying to figure out if they are doing the best thing or not. I often think of the scripture in John where (I think) Peter is asking Jesus about another disciple and Jesus essentially says, “What is it to you? You follow me.” I’m not sure how God wants to do this work of healing and redemption. Maybe here on earth for man to see, or maybe on the other side of the veil. But I do want to be the one encouraging my siblings in Christ to follow Him and Him alone, even if it means seemingly completely disagreeing with my thoughts or even what He is telling me to do. I figure, what is it to me, I am to follow Jesus and love as He calls me to love.
I wish all those called to follow Him, to do so with all of your hearts, and soul and mind.
“better served by a criminal trial?”
_______
My guess, police never thought there was a crime committed by SGM pastors/leadership.
Accusation isn’t proof.
Drew, again, not sure of your purpose in what you just said, but your guess would be way off.
The police DID think there was a crime committed? What SGM paid staff was arrested? I wasn’t that close to know who got arrested.
Drew … please save all of us the time and please read Brent Detwiler’s site. He has tons of emails from SGM Leaders who implicate THEMSELVES for multiple offenses including blackmail, lying, protecting SGM vs. protecting those that were injured, etc..
Crimes were committed. Grant Layman even stated UNDER OATH that they knew that they should have reported pedophiles to the police but they DID NOT.
The only reason SGM got “off” was because of the statute of limitations in the state. Sad thing for SGM is that there is no statute of limitations in heaven. They will answer for all the harm that they caused those that were hurt because of their crime.
stunned, if you think I was criticizing the civil trial that was not my intention. I have the highest regard for Susan Burke. Boz would perhaps be a great idea but as “somewhere” said, it isn’t going to happen.
We’ve spent years criticizing SGM for keeping these problems in the church and dealing with them in the church, without going to the civil authorities. So why do we want yet another para church organization involved to handle it within the church? Isn’t that inconsistent? If perps should be turned in to the cops right away, then in the current call for justice why aren’t we calling on the law? Why are we asking for another Christian investigation that has no legal clout?
Genuine question I am asking here. There must be a reason this never went to a criminal trial. Money? Statute of limitations? When they let Morales go away and said nothing, so he could repeat his evil deeds again and again, was that legal at the time to not mandate reporting a perp? So is there no criminal case? Or no money for what it would cost?
Since I assume Brent is still reading here I suppose he would know. Or maybe Pam Palmer. If a collection is going to be taken for an investigation that would probably run well over $100,000, how much money would a criminal trial cost? I have no idea. But why do yet one more investigation if they can be taken to court and tried as criminals? What about the hush fund thing BD wrote about, isn’t that criminal? Wouldn’t that send them to jail? Detwiler has all the emails, so there is a proof.
There must be a reason why it is not a criminal case, but I don’t know what the reason is.
In defense of Drew, this isn’t too clear. If the statute of limitations has run out and clergy were not mandated to report, then maybe there is no crime, according to statute law. Moral law is God’s true law, and yes there were crimes and sins, but the cops operate according to the statute law. No arrests have ever been made, so I wonder if technically no crimes were committed. Churches have quite a bit of immunity, or did. Maybe there is no criminal case. Drew is correct, there have been no arrests.
5years, just because the statute of limitations has expired does not mean a crime never occurred, it means that they can no longer prosecute the case.
5years, not all of this is ancient history, some of it is still recent.
What recent crimes?
I feel like we have had this discussion before. Obviously, the cases of abuse are crimes. As for not reporting – I don’t think CLC leaders were obligated to report, so I don’t think a crime was committed there. I think – but I’m not 100% sure – the situation Grant admitted involved perjury or lying to the police about what was known when. And blackmail is a crime, but who is going to lodge a complaint against CJ – Larry? That would involve discussing the issue that was being used as blackmail, which I feel quite certain he will not do.
There are other situations in other churches that are fairly recent – there is one that I think occurred in Pennsylvania (not Philadelphia) in which a pastors son abused another boy, so the pastor was moved to another church – is that right? Brent keeps track and I am sure can summarize the events and break down what is criminal, etc. more succintly than the rest of us.
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/the-differences-between-a-criminal-case-and-a-civil-case.html
Civil vs criminal trials. Interesting.
Here is a recent example. http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/hush-fund-set-up-by-top-sgm-leaders-to-meet-the-demands-of-a.html
And that example occurred in a mandatory reporting state.
Has Brent has taken this to the police?
Brent’s post was 3 years ago. So, he didn’t report this or he did and nothing has happened.
I don’t know the answer. Sometimes investigations span multiple years and if a juvenile is involved we might never know the results, especially if the victim’s family did not cooperate.
If the child victim does not want to go public that needs to be respected. No matter how much counsel they get that it wasn’t their fault, it can be a very embarrassing and difficult thing to have to testify in court and talk about it. That limits prosecution. Even if you think they should report it, and try to get them to so others will be protected, at the end of they day if they want to keep their trauma private you can’t force them to do otherwise. This is one reason why statutes of limitation for this should be very long (if they exist at all). It can take decades to get up the courage to go public.
somewhereintime- On another subject, what still bothers me is the Gospel Coalition statement. Out of all the thousands of posts on this blog, they select this one quote to represent the vindictive bad blogs.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/why-we-have-been-silent-about-the-sgm-lawsuit/
“One of the so-called discernment blogs—often trafficking more in speculation and gossip than edifying discernment—reprinted a comment from a woman who issued this ominous wish, “I hope [this lawsuit] ruins the entire organization [of SGM] and every single perpetrator and co-conspirator financially, mentally and physically.””
Do you know where that quote came from? From somebody molested at age 13 against the outside wall of an SGM member home. Can you understand the strength of their feelings and desire to see justice…even if it sounds harsh?
I know TGC and Carson, etc were confronted about this. I doubt they picked out that one quote, they probably had a ghost writer help and just signed off on it. But I am not aware of any retraction despite numerous pleas for an apology. You can’t ignore all the posts here by former SGM staff and members, many of which are not the slightest bit bitter, and pick out one quote from a sex abuse victim as representative, and show no compassion for their trauma.
You say “That said, I do envision “Lig”, Mohler and the rest of the enablers of Mahaney to get a ton of pressure to leave SGM in the dust. I believe that will happen.” Maybe. But it is hard to picture any true blessing on their ministries if they don’t apologize for the enabling.
Sadly they had to pick out one of the more extreme comments vs. the more typical comments.
Even though I kind of see their point on bitterness using this quote shows just how lacking in empathy the Gospel Coalition is on the affect Sovereign Grace Churches has had on people. Shouldn’t TGC show some concern that the organization lead by C.J. Mahaney has produced such extreme cases like this where someone was so badly abused that they have these long term feelings?
Just so callous to use this statement but then again many in these groups are masters at deflection and finding excuses to not look internally.
PDI – “If the child victim does not want to go public that needs to be respected. No matter how much counsel they get that it wasn’t their fault, it can be a very embarrassing and difficult thing to have to testify in court and talk about it. That limits prosecution. Even if you think they should report it, and try to get them to so others will be protected, at the end of they day if they want to keep their trauma private you can’t force them to do otherwise. ”
_____________-
PDI, that option has been taken away. It no longer matters what the victim wants. They are no longer allowed to keep their trauma private if they chose to talk to their church staff about it.
If you’re the counselor/pastoral staff, you pick up the phone then and there and call you state child protection team. Then the full bureacracy will get involved and who knows what will happen next.
Drew- from what I know from one good source, the state has to have evidence in order to prosecute, which means victims have to talk, or, if the state can get a warrant to go into the perp’s house, they can get the perp’s computer which invariably has child porn on it. But I guess you have to not let the perp know you called the cops or they can toss their computer real fast.
Obviously, in an effort to aid law enforcement, you want to encourage victims to talk. Which means you don’t make up a moral equivalence and tell the kid that they are a sinner too and heap guilt on them. You tell them it is zero their fault what the grownup did, zero, and they can help other kids if they will testify. There are ways to stay private, like screens and so forth.
I don’t know how it works if parents tell the church, the church calls the cops, but the kid does not want to talk. A lot of fear can be involved. All that to say in retrospect I don’t think churches were well equipped to deal with this, and I don’t just mean SGM. One hopes that all that has transpired will cause changes in the future, at least in this area.
All that to say in retrospect I don’t think churches were well equipped to deal with this, and I don’t just mean SGM.
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Absolutely true.
Public schools, private schools, state agencies, police departments etc. ALL did the same thing. It wasn’t just the churches.