Josh Harris Says He’s Not a Christian
July 27, 2019 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
Yesterday on Instagram, Josh Harris shared the following:
My heart is full of gratitude. I wish you could see all the messages people sent me after the announcement of my divorce. They are expressions of love though they are saddened or even strongly disapprove of the decision.
I am learning that no group has the market cornered on grace. This week I’ve received grace from Christians, atheists, evangelicals, exvangelicals, straight people, LGBTQ people, and everyone in-between. Of course there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people. While not always pleasant, I know they are seeking to love me. (There have also been spiteful, hateful comments that angered and hurt me.)
The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.
Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance. There’s beauty in that sentiment regardless of your view of God. I have lived in repentance for the past several years—repenting of my self-righteousness, my fear-based approach to life, the teaching of my books, my views of women in the church, and my approach to parenting to name a few. But I specifically want to add to this list now: to the LGBTQ+ community, I want to say that I am sorry for the views that I taught in my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality. I regret standing against marriage equality, for not affirming you and your place in the church, and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive me.
To my Christians friends, I am grateful for your prayers. Don’t take it personally if I don’t immediately return calls. I can’t join in your mourning. I don’t view this moment negatively. I feel very much alive, and awake, and surprisingly hopeful. I believe with my sister Julian that, “All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.”
Covenant Life Church, where Josh was senior pastor for several years, sent its members the following email late last night:
Dear Covenant Life family,
This week our former Lead Pastor, Josh Harris, shared some significant news. First, he and his wife Shannon announced that they’re separated. Then in a follow up post, he said “by all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian.”
These updates are hard to hear. We love Josh and Shannon. For most of us, Josh isn’t just some distant public figure. He’s a beloved former pastor and friend. So this news isn’t just a lot to process theoretically. It hits home personally.
How do we process the news that someone who was a spiritual leader in our community, who taught us God’s Word, who ministered to us, no longer considers himself a follower of Christ?
Today, after I got the news, I read through Paul’s first letter to Timothy and found it very grounding. Several times Paul mentions former Christian leaders “swerving from,” “wandering from,” or “making shipwreck” of their faith. So while this is sad and confusing, it isn’t new. Christian leaders occasionally veered from faith at the very beginning. Paul says some had gone off course theologically. Others behaved in ways that violated Christian conscience. For others, it was greed. In every case, Paul’s hope was for redemption and restoration. That these leaders would develop “love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.” (1 Tim 1:5) That should be our hope and prayer for Josh as well.
Paul’s primary instruction for us when leaders swerve from faith is that we make it an opportunity for greater resolve in our own faith, not less. Seeing leaders who taught us the gospel veer from it should deepen our commitment to “guard the good deposit” entrusted to us. And “pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.” (1 Tim 6:11)
So, Covenant Life, pray for our friend Josh. Pray with sincere hope for a redemptive end. And ask the God of all grace and power for fresh resolve in your own fight of faith. “Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called.” (1 Tim 6:12)
In Love,
Kevin
P.S. – If you’re having particular trouble processing this, any of the pastors would be glad to talk with you. If you’re specifically wrestling with how to process teaching you heard from Josh, you may find this video from John Piper helpful.
I realize my opinions don’t carry any particular weight, but still. I have all sorts of thoughts on these developments.
I actually really like CLC’s email. And…it just goes to show, churches would do well to follow scriptural guidelines for elders. It’s generally not a good idea to hand-pick a very young man and place a ton of responsibility on his shoulders.
Furthermore (and probably most importantly), we need to be praying for Josh. As an outsider who has observed him from afar over the years, he strikes me as someone who has always been eager for approval, first from his father and then from his mentor. Unfortunately, in the land of CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace churches, that compliance and desire to please were misconstrued as “humility.” Josh’s bosses thought his submission to their authority made him more godly.
And yes, it can be a good quality, to want to please. When SGM’s problems came to light, Josh seemed much nicer than many other leaders in how he responded.
At the same time, though, put a person like that in an open-ended academic environment, and it’s highly likely he will end up absorbing the beliefs and values of his professors and fellow students, particularly if he has reason to question his original beliefs, or if his original beliefs were built on a shaky academic foundation. Factor in our sick culture today and the additional peer pressure to disavow any non-woke views, and honestly, I’m not surprised at all to read Josh’s latest statement.
The good news is, if the Holy Spirit has been at work in Josh’s life to regenerate him at some point – back when he was still a professing believer – then the Holy Spirit is still at work, and eventually, Josh will come back around. As I said, join me in praying for him and Shannon.
Cee, thanks for the explanation. I usually do not hold much stock on the, “everything bad is because SGM believed inapostles” but that does not seem to be the nature of your explanation and likely has some merit, here, despite Brent’s FB claims that his posts about Joshua are out of friendship.
If I could offer my take on Josh’s announcement, I’d say, “Hallelujah and it’s about time!”
Now, before you start getting too worried about me, I love Jesus. Moreso, Jesus loves me (thank you, Lord!) He is my savior, and I value His word (though frankly, I think if anyone thinks they understand the word of our amazing God fully, then I wouldn’t trust them, ’cause let’s face it, the word itself tells us that so much higher are his thought than our thoughts, so much higher his ways than our ways, we ain’t just gonna ever be able to fully comprehend Him. So anyone who thinks they always or even mostly KNOW what God is meaning in His word, I steer FAR from them. That level of arrogance mixed with stupidity is more dangerous than mixing ammonia and bleach, then taking a swift inhale.)
Back to what I was saying, “Praise God!” It’s about time.
This poor man (no, I’m not coddling him more than I would anyone of us. If you look at my record, I have DEF publicly taken him to task for NOT speaking up, not exposing truth, etc.) was raised by a man, by what I have read, was full of legalism. Or at least, had some of that Pharicuetical (hmmm, not spelled like pharmaceutical, after all) leaven laying around the house, and we know what the word of God has to say about that. It doesn’t just leaven part of the loaf, it leavens the whole thing. (I know, because I’m often finding that stuff laying around my house, too, and sometimes those lumps grow so big that I trip over, or stub my toe. Aka I get really self righteous and ugly and don’t even know it until the Holy Spirit or one of my kids points it out. Hate when it’s my kids, though at their ages, they have no illusion that I’m anything but a broken down Christian. Praise God! He seems to like broken things.) Then upon not even reaching adulthood yet, he goes from that father, to CJ, whom we mostly know of as someone who doesn’t know God, at least, in the way we do. Aka leaven on steroids.
So what do you get when you have those two backgrounds; two men intentionally grooming you and giving you what they have? You get a loaf of bread that AIN’T leaven free. It ain’t worth eating. It ain’t good for nuttin’. Except to create more legalism, more law. More death. Only good for throwing out and starting, again. What was once leavened can never be un-leavened.
I’m not saying that Josh didn’t try not to be legalistic (frankly, I don’t know him from Adam so not trying to be a Josh apologist here, and I was never a big fan- couldn’t get through that book to save my life and I was horrified by his ignorance the first time I heard him speak and yada yada), what I am saying is that we can’t pour new wine into old wine skins. (I’m not making this stuff up, Folks; it’s the word of God.) For Josh to get to know the REAL God, the God of love and holiness (as opposed to law and self holiness which is as filthy as really unpleasant rags), he MUST throw out everything he knows about God.
He MUST throw out the old wine skin (which kept legalism perfectly safe). He MUST throw the entire loaf out of the house and start over, again, but not until after every nook and cranny has been scoured, and every bit of legalism/ leaven has been eradicated. And you know how I’ve seen God do that? (Not in every case, but He is God and HE gets to decide HOW He’s going to do His work.)
It is often exactly as we are seeing done with Josh now.
Josh MUST throw out everything he knew about God, because the god he knew was twisted and ugly (my God is too holy to be OK with being perverted, and it’s God’s game to fight, not mine. I just get to sit on the sidelines and watch His almighty work, cheering God on, and tending to those who are carried off the field of battle with His love, tenderness, grace and Word.)
If Josh DOESN’T throw out God, Josh (and God) risks Josh’s new god having that same leaven in it. He risks trying to pour new wine into old wine skin.
Look, God can do what He wants. But as for me, I cheer this on. Yes, I too mourn, but not so much mourn what is happening now, as what has led to now. As why now has to happen in order for the true God (the one I don’t even really know, because, really how much can a mite understand a mountain? I can only know Him as He, the almighty, holy God has chosen to reveal Himself to me today, but He is powerful and bigger than anything or anyone I could ever understand. Yet, I trust that He cares about me SO MUCH, oh brothers and sisters, He cares about us SO MUCH, that He is not willing to leave us in our misperceptions about Him. (Think of all He’s already done in each and every one of us in delivering us from the God of SGM!) He is not willing to leave us in our beliefs about Him today. I believe He is wanting for us to grow to know Him more and more intimately every year. (I’d say every day, but let’s face it, I’m often two step forwarding and one step backwarding.)
He has not left us in our ignorance of Him.
He has not left us in the same box we were in ten years ago.
He is not done with any of us yet.
Is He done with Josh?
Not by a long shot.
Does Josh NEED to go through this? To throw out everything he knew about God, so that God could build something new? Something true? I don’t know. But I know God had to do that with me. (Maybe some of us are harder to work on than others. I’m pretty sure with me, sometimes He’s had to use spiritual dynamite equal to what they used to make Mt Rushmore.)
But would I go back to the person I was before I threw away everything I knew about God? Back when I was still the extremely faithful, extremely prayerful, extremely extreme person of God?
I say this quite seriously: not for all the money in the world. You could not even begin to tempt me to go back to that person. Because HE IS THE PEARL WORTH ANY PRICE. Knowing Him the way I know Him now, is worth more to me, than every bit of money this world has to offer.
Would I have seemed like a MUCH better Christian before? You know it. But He is the pearl worth any price, and I am telling you, that I wouldn’t exchange the God I know now for the God I eventually rejected (though it broke my heart like you can’t even imagine- or maybe you can imagine). I just wouldn’t. I wouldn’t reject this amazing, wonderful, loving GRACE FILLED (like the real kind of grace, and not it’s cheap substitute I knew) for ANYTHING. ANYTHING.
So am I rejoicing in this new move in Josh’s life? You bet I am. (Am I rejoicing that it had to come to pass? Not in the least.) I don’t know where Josh will end up. But I know, if he is lucky, he’ll end up knowing a new God. I know if Josh pursues truth, he’ll end up at the feet of Jesus, but it’ll take many twists and turns and it won’t look anything like we think it ought to look. We know at the end of all this, God will still be on His throne, mighty and able to save. We know that despite any influence we fear this may have over vulnerable people, weak in their faith, it is NO MATCH for our God. Our God is so good, so strong and so mighty, there’s nothing our God cannot do. I know the lies are nothing in the face of truth; in face of love; in face of true grace.
What was that quote? “Preach the gospel at all times, and if necessary, use words.” Maybe God is calling some of us to speak to Josh, or others directly. If so, I encourage you to obey His promptings. But, please, if you are tempted to fear or panic, or anything producing fear or anxiety, remind yourself that love is our first calling, and perfect love casts out fear. He is mighty. It is His to complete the work He has started. I don’t know who/what is a wheat and a tare. So until He decides to reap HIS harvest, I can just try to obey; love, speak when lead, and not fear. God has this.
One thing I meant to say earlier: if Josh’s self-proclaimed apostasy is related to his journey away from a biblical sexual ethic, I have to say I respect him for intellectual consistency. At least he’s not trying to make the Bible say something he knows it absolutely never says.
So I can see the complaints that Josh does everything publicly and kind of who cares? But wasn’t that how he was brought up?
Also, I see another side of this. Joshua’s brought up very sheltered and in a very legalistic system. His father then sent him to a very legalistic Church, and he essentially became a clone of CJ. Josh was groomed for the senior pastor position of CLC and never really had a chance to decide what he wanted for himself or really what he believed. So he is kind of doing everything in his life backwards. And then he inherited all of the problems in CLC and went through trauma there. Did he deal with it perfectly? No, but who would have because life doesn’t prepare you for that kind of stuff. Just some of my random thoughts about this.
Kris, a few months ago he said he did not agree with the Bible. So, I think he is not trying to reinterpret Scripture. https://sojo.net/articles/questioning-faith-after-purity-culture-conversation-joshua-harris
Jenn,
That’s what I mean. At least Josh is being intellectually consistent. If you’re not believing the Bible about a topic as basic as its teachings about human sexuality, then why would you believe what it says about Jesus?
Kris, I agree. I smelled trouble when I read that article a few days before he came clean about falling away.
We could sit and talk with Brent until we were blue in the face but we would never convince him otherwise about what he believes.
“It is noteworthy that no major leader in the history of the church – not Athanasius or Augustine, not Luther or Calvin, not Wesley or Whitefield – has taken to himself the title of “apostle” or let himself be called an apostle. If any in modern times want to take the title “apostle” to themselves, they immediately raise the suspicion that they may be motivated by inappropriate pride and desires for self-exaltation, along with excessive ambition and a desire for much more authority in the church than any one person should rightfully have.”
(Systematic Theology, 911)
Brent has a remarkable brain and God uses it in spite of his pride and self-exaltation. It will be just as interesting to see how his story turns out as it will be to see how Josh’s turns out.
Steve240 wrote: “It is interesting how Brent seems to be forgetting about what Calvinism teaches. After all Calvinism claims is it is God who determines if one is saved or not. Also the doctrine of perseverance of the Saints claims that if one is truly elected by God they will persevere in the faith. According to their teaching it could be Josh was never really elected to salvation. This isn’t the first time a contradiction between what is claimed to believe and expected with those claiming to believe in Calvinism.”
Based on Brent’s FB post, it seems that “Brent Kissed Calvinism Goodbye.”
Poffy
I think Brent fully embraces Calvinism, but when people “fail” within calvinistic theology, it always ends up being the person who is the failure, never saved etc.
When you take Calvinism to the core there is no freedom of choice in matter.
That’s why I think it was such a shaking when Josh publicly stated his current position in his faith or lack thereof.
For now not only the person (Josh) is being tested and examined, I believe the SGM theology ,rooted in (Calvinism) is as well.
It might be a while, to see how this shakes out.
Regarding apostles, it occurred to me it is a lot like communism: completely dependent on the integrity and benevolence of those who hold power. I will be honest, if there is a Biblical model for polity, I believe it to be in the SGM original model. But, I cannot reconcile that model with what I know of people and all of our flaws. Therefore, I am a Congregationalist. However, I don’t blame the problems in SGM on apostolic leadership. We saw similar abuses exposed in the SBC, which I believe is more of a congregationalist model. The SGM issues go straight to integrity. Do leaders present as they really are or do they present a more polished version of the public?
I have heard people Express concern about the potential trial for people to follow Josh in his abandonment of Christianity. If they do, they will show that they learned little through the SGM scandals. To me the biggest lessons are in seeking and developing an individual relationship with Jesus and rejecting the celebrity pastor (or former pastor.)
Gen 1 wrote: “I think Brent fully embraces Calvinism, but when people “fail” within calvinistic theology, it always ends up being the person who is the failure, never saved etc. When you take Calvinism to the core there is no freedom of choice in matter.”
I was speaking (writing) tongue-in-cheek.
Calvinists and Neo-calvinists are usually quick to argue that someone who “falls away” was never a Christian to begin with. But what do they do with Josh’s situation? Are pastors at CLC such who are hard-core Calvanists (think Robin B) going to admit that they were completely lacking a mustard seed of discernment when they hired a non-Christian (Josh) to be their pastor? And then sit under the teaching of a non-Christian for so many years? Hello CJ, what say ye? I think hard-core Calvinists owe a Biblical explanation. Brent? Or maybe you temporarily “kissed Calvinism goodbye” for this particular situation.
Kris’s discussion of JH’s personal branding was most enlightening and made sense to me in the context of the branding of church systems such as 9Marks and Sovereign Grace. I cannot imagine the dependence upon others buying into one’s brand that JH grew up in; the sense of loneliness and isolation that would result from trying to live one’s life in the privacy that most of us are accustomed to. I fear for him, a bit, that this new foundation is not as stable as the one he is leaving, flawed though those systems of family and Sovereign Grace were. It will be interesting to see if this new brand flourishes as much as the old one did. My guess is that the secular thought systems that are celebrating him now will lose interest rather quickly…
Kris,
You said “Regarding apostles, it occurred to me it is a lot like communism: completely dependent on the integrity and benevolence of those who hold power. I will be honest, if there is a Biblical model for polity, I believe it to be in the SGM original model. But, I cannot reconcile that model with what I know of people and all of our flaws. ”
I 100% agree with you. THE ISSUE is that leaders MUST be saved and filled daily with the Holy Spirit, completely and utterly dependent upon Him for everything! When SGM started running the ministry like a business, it destroyed everything. Leaders were “promoted” because of their business skills, not their walk with Christ. Not with their ability to listen, hear and OBEY the Holy Spirit!
Now, you have what you have. A man-made festering sore that is slowly, but surely, on its death bed.
We see it. The world sees it and SGM leaders remain blind.
Very true, Rick…the secular world will definitely lose interest fast.
I’m wondering if Josh will quickly move toward targeting the LGBTQ crowd.
I won’t get into a debate about apostles, church polity, etc… it’s been debated on this site and others Ad nauseam. But I can’t for the life of me see how ANYONE who understands the sin nature would put their trust in a mere sinful human (I don’t care what their title is) over their own personal access to God Himself through the Holy Spirit. That is just beyond me! The Holy Spirit assured me as a young Christian that He would be my guide and He has NEVER failed me or guided me in the wrong direction. NEVER! Pastors and well-intentioned family and friends have failed me LOTS of times, but never the Holy Spirit. How fortunate for me that I got that as a young Christian. There have been very few times that I’ve been duped by anyone, and if so, not for very long. When you have the grid of scripture to sift everything in life through, it’s a beautiful thing.
I was reading in II Peter this morning, and I’d encourage everyone to check it out, even if it’s a familiar book to you. Especially in light of the Josh stuff, it is a great encouragement. It speaks to the notion of both election and the need to remain diligent in our pursuit of virtue, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, and love. It talks about how we pursue those things to “make your call and election sure.”
Election as it interacts with our apparent ability to make choices is a great mystery, but it is nonetheless a biblical concept. We will never fully grasp how it all works…but II Peter is tremendously appropriate right now, especially as Peter continues with his assertion (in chapter 1 verses 16-21) that we don’t believe because the gospel is some “cunningly devised fable.”
As we continue into chapter 2, things get really interesting:
I won’t quote it all, but chapter 2 just feels so timely, especially if (as I sense is the case), Josh’s self-proclaimed apostasy is connected to his desire to embrace our culture’s ideas about sexuality and sexual immorality. Check out 2:18-21
As I’ve said, I hope and pray Josh is just going through what should have been his teen or young adult rebellion to make his faith his own. Otherwise…what a frightening thought, to walk away from Christ for the “freedom” of different ideas about sex.
Proffy
Well said.
Luke 6: 46-49
46¶And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Hello all:
The news about Josh, hit Fox News.
https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/christian-author-joshua-harris-kissed-dating-goodbye-faith.print
Stunned- encouraging post, and I do hope that this is a case of somebody weak who only knew a set of laws, and all that is being torn down so he can meet the true and living God. If not, as Kris said, this is frightning.
Tim Keller always says that when people tell him they are having doubts about their Christian faith, he replies “who are you sleeping with?”. In my personal experience, every person I know who “backslid” had gotten involved in an immoral relationship or addicted to porn. Every single one. Not saying this is the case here, but for me there is that question.
Re Calvinism: Spurgeon put it well. There all all kinds of verses about election and predestination, and also all kinds of verses about obedience and commands to believe, and moral culpability for our own unbelief. He describes it as two parallel train tracks that looking to the horizon seem to never meet, yet they meet in God. The bible teaches both and we must believe both. People are chosen, yet stand guilty for their unbelief. As Romans 9 says when we ask how that is just- “who are you oh man to answer back to God”.
If Josh was born again, then God gave him a new heart and new spirit and made him a new creation and he has passed from death to life already, past tense. That can NEVER be undone. That is what Calvinism teaches. The new work that God does in a Christian is one that can never die and never fail. It can go through periods that look like it, as a prodigal leaves in rebellion, but they WILL return to the Father. If on the other hand his Christianity was some sort of cultural and mental thing he grew up in, without truly experiencing a reborn life, than this is no surprise, and we should pray that he does get saved.
The following will be long so just skip it if you don’t like long theological posts, and don’t get on here and tell me my post is too long. Just skip it. This is for Cee primarily.
Cee- your posts were fascinating. For the longest time I thought SGM was the first cult group I knew of who managed to hold to basic creedal/confessional positions about Jesus Christ and Christianity, unlike say the JWs or Mormons the UPC or other groups who have a different Jesus.
Then the ESS thing blew up and I read a lot about it. You had all those Reformed guys trying to explain why ESS is wrong and how it attacks the very essence of the full deity of Christ. As far as I know Grudem and SGM dug in their heels but I really am not sure where they are at now.
There is understandable confusion about this because of Jesus’ earthly ministry versus his divine nature. Here is one quote I lifted from a Reformed forum called the Puritan Board:
“(1) the subordination of the Son and the Spirit is temporary and functional (not eternal), for the period and purpose of their special ministry in the accomplishment and application of salvation to the human race;
(2) the Father’s authority cannot be taken in isolation from the authority possessed by the Son and the Holy Spirit;
(3) Scriptures that speak of the Father commanding and the Son obeying are to be understood as referring to the time of the Son’s earthly ministry;
(4) the Father’s will, which the Son obeys, is actually the will of all three members of the Trinity, administered on their behalf by the Father;
(5) for those claiming eternal functional subordination, the difference of role within the Trinity requires that one person have authority—per an assumed ranking over the other—has yet to be substantiated, rather merely stipulated as a new definition for personhood which requires a ranking, and ignores the possibility of a jointly decided covenant between members of the Trinity before creation;
(6) if the eternally functionally subordinate Son was never equal to the Father, the matter of the humiliation of the Son in the Incarnation as to exactly what He gave up requires a demagnification of Scripture’s teachings concerning The Son’s present glorification;
(7) if the eternally functionally subordinate Son could not do otherwise, then the Son’s coming was not really a free act, nor, with respect to this one action, was God free;
(8) given the assumption by the eternal subordination proponent that the Son’s subordination is similar to that of human sons to human fathers, then the Holy Spirit’s relationship to the Father—proceeding from both Father and Son—is either something akin to a second son or a grandson;
(9) given that each action of the members of the Trinity is an action by all members of the Trinity, the substitutionary penal view of the atonement is not laid open to charges of injustice for the punishment of an unwilling innocent;
(10) if the Son is eternally subordinate, then prayers directed to Jesus, such as the maranatha prayer asking His return, ought logically to be directed instead to the Father, since the Father sent the Son the first time, and prayers should be for the Father to send the Son the second time;
(11) if the Son is eternally subordinate, praise and worship of the Son is penultimate, not ultimate as that given to the Father; and
(12) if the Father is eternally and necessarily supreme among the persons of the Trinity, if the Son eternally is subordinated to the Father, then the Son is essentially, that is, not accidentally, subordinate to the Father. Therefore if there is a difference of essence between the Father and the Son—that the Father’s essence includes supreme authority—while the Son’s essence includes submission and subordination everywhere and always, then there is an ontological difference between members of the Trinity which would lead us back to Arianism.
Patrick”
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Cee- you posted this:
“To understand Brent’s mindset as to why he feels empowered to state what he has done requires reading his beliefs on apostolic authority. Brent believes the church structure should be based on a doctrine known as “The Eternal Subordination of The Son” (ESS). Just as Jesus as the Son is eternally subordinated to the Father, the congregation (the son) is eternally subordinated to the Apostle (the father). There are a lot of theologians who consider ESS to be heretical.
In the subsection of the blog post titled “C.J.’s Conundrum Regarding Apostles” titled “No Biblical Grounds for Use of Fatherhood Metaphor, item #1” Brent states a belief in a doctrine known as “Eternal Subordination of the Son to the Father (ESS) to defend his position:
1. Jesus Christ is eternally, not temporarily, subjected to the Father. Citation
Brent further cements his belief in ESS in a November 15 2016 blog post defending Wayne Grudem and Bruce Ware. Grudem is widely acknowledged as the “father” of ESS and both he and Ware are key proponents in ESS. Brent agrees with Grudem and Ware: ” I agree with Grudem and Ware.”
Proponents of ESS believe that the Father and the Son are eternally distinguished by an “authority-submission structure” such that the Son eternally submits to the Father and the Father eternally has authority over the Son (as well as the Holy Spirit). Using this model of the Trinity, they claim this eternal, ontological functional subordination is the pattern for all created male-female relationships as well as authority and God-given order in the church. All women are subordinated to all men and everyone lower in the hierarchy than apostle are subordinated to the apostle with no free will to decline that oversight.
Brent further elaborates in Items 2 and 3 his belief that, because the Fatherhood of God continues throughout the believer’s life, this is a paradigm for how the father rules in the home and by extension how an Apostle (the church father) has “authority and responsibility” that continues throughout the life of the congregation (the son). “Obedience and honor are expected from the son”, according to Brent.
Brent’s belief in ESS gives him what he believes to be the biblical mandate and authority to be in a position of rule where everyone below him in the church hierarchy has a God ordained obligation to “function in submission” to him while Brent is not subordinate to anyone below him in the organizational hierarchy.
So, if you apply Brent’s ESS based, authoritative apostle beliefs to how he relates to people who were once in subordination to him as pastors, congregants, etc, you can understand why he feels it is his God-ordained right to disciple a “son” who can never remove himself from the authority of this “father” he is eternally subordinated to.”
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I don’t feel like going back and checking out your specifics. If you are wrong, I am sure BD will get on here and tear apart your post. But if you are correct, then his mindset about apostles being based on the doctrine of ESS means his entire polity is based on heresy.
There are different FUNCTIONAL properties in the Godhead. We speak of the second person as eternally begotten, and the HS proceeding from the Father and Son. The son did something the Father did not do when He incarnated.
But their divine ESSENCE is one and equal and have always been and always will be. And authority is part of that essence. ESS takes away from the ESSENCE of Jesus Christ in power and authority.
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Here is RC Sproul:
http://heartandmouth.org/2017/01/28/subordination-of-the-son-ligonier-and-the-economic-trinity/
DEC 22, 2016 | 03:18PM EST
Here is the official position of Dr. Sproul and Ligonier on the Eternal Subordination of the Son debate:
Dr. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries deny the doctrine of the eternal subordination of the Son and the idea that the Father eternally has greater authority than the Son. The Bible clearly teaches the deity of Christ (e.g. John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8–9; 2 Pet. 1:1), and there are no degrees of deity. All of the attributes of God belong equally to all three Persons of the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is why we confess the Nicene Creed, declaring that the Son is homoousios (i.e. same nature, same substance) with the Father. To use the language of the Athanasian Creed, the Father, Son, and Spirit are “co-equal with each other.” The fifth ecumenical council in AD 553, elaborated on the implications of the homoousios doctrine, explaining that the Father, Son, and Spirit “have one nature or substance” and that they have “one power and authority.” There can no more be levels of authority within the one divine being than there can be levels of deity. The biblical doctrine taught in the early creeds is taught in our Reformed confessions as well. The Westminster Confession declares that the Son is “equal with the Father” (8.2). The Holy Spirit is also equal (WLC Q. 11). The Belgic Confession concurs, saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are “equal from eternity” (Article 8). All of this is what it means to confess, along with Scripture, the true deity of Christ and of the Spirit.
*************
There are like a bazillion posts about this online and I will stop here. And let me say that if BD comes on to argue, I will post links to the classic orthodox position of the church for many hundreds of years at most but I am not going to get into a match with BD about it. LOL. Don’t worry Kris! There have been all kinds of efforts by Reformed theologians to confront Grudem, Ware, and the other proponents of ESS in their heresy or bad semantics (not always easy to tell which it is). I don’t need to add to what they say.
Cee- I think your posts rank among the most insightful ones ever posted here for 10 or so years, and it was like a lightbulb going off for me about not only Detwiler but the SGM cult. It is a different Jesus if he is not ONE with the Father in full authority and rule in his eternal divine nature. People are preaching a different Jesus, and we do well to repent if we fell for it. I read ESS years ago and figured it was true if the CBMW ( Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood) was teaching it, ie Grudem and Piper. I just didn’t know and I thank God for opening my eyes to the truth.
If that is the root of BD’s position on apostles, or anything SGM, then run!
I first encountered Josh Harris when I was in college around 2005ish and single and desperately wanting to be in a relationship and just feeling angsty about it, and also knowing that God might not have marriage in the cards for me. So I read IKDG and quickly moved on to the much better book Boy Meets Girl and I never read them as legalistic (though I can see how some could). I just saw a passion that the author had for Christ that was good and that I wanted for myself. I heard a message of the cross and grace in a way my dad (pastor at my church) never taught. I felt fired up and hungry for more and started listening to sermons online from Josh and the others at CLC. I just couldn’t get enough of them.
So it’s crazy to me that Josh is doing what he’s doing. It’s not about wether you believe the Bible or not, do you believe the core foundation of what the bible is pointing to? That you’re lost and sinful and Jesus died for you and you didn’t deserve to receive His Grace and forgiveness for you but He’s offering it anyway in SPITE of your sin?
What Jesus did on the cross for us strikes me as so obviously GOOD that anybody on the planet who understood what he did could never reject it. Has Josh just forgotten? Distracted with trying to please his new friends? It’s just baffling. Surely he doesn’t think he can be righteous on his own or that righteousness as a concept doesn’t exist.
Does he just need a good reminder like in 2 Peter 1:12?
Josh is apparently not doing so will. Guilt, shame, and harassment have obviously taken their toll. He is apparently attempting to take his life back in a very public way. Prayer is what is needed. Pray for him. Who has stones to cast? No wonder he’s run away from the ‘Christian’ nightmare on judgement street. Even this blog comment section is viably no longer ‘safe’…
Y’know, Sopwith, I don’t see anything “unsafe” here. Yes, there’s some “judgment,” but it’s the kind of judgment – righteous judgment – which Jesus told people to use. I am a Christian who affirms all of the scriptures as perfectly sufficient for life and godliness. As such, I compare stuff like Josh’s self-proclaimed apostasy to the scriptures and discern from there.
Yes, that was also how many abuses happened within SGM, as people sometimes overzealously applied their erroneous interpretations of scripture. BUT, just because something is mishandled does not mean the thing itself stops being good or correct.
I do not condemn Josh Harris as a human being before the Lord. That – OBVIOUSLY – is God’s job and not mine! I also would never say that Josh’s story is finished. If his original profession of faith was genuine, the Lord will continue to work in his life to bring him back around.
I do condemn the choice to walk away from so great a salvation, and I pray for him. I also condemn a flagrant disregard for the scriptures.
If THAT is “unsafe,” oh well. Then this is not your safe space. No one ever promised that it would be.
This was posted on Michael Ferris’ Facebook page. It really speaks from the heart…
A Letter to Josh Harris
Josh,
My first memory of you was in Olympia, Washington standing in my driveway as a grinning kid when you were about nine years old. I saw you many times as your dad and I spoke at many conferences over the years.
How can I forget that meeting in the lobby of a hotel in Rochester, New York when you told me you had signed a book deal for “I Kissed Dating Goodbye”? I told you it was a bad title and wouldn’t sell. Of course, it outsold everything I have ever written by a wide margin.
The last time I saw you was at your dear mother’s funeral. (I can’t recall if you were at your brothers’ graduation from Patrick Henry College.)
We knew each other very well for many years. And I loved you like a younger brother. And still do.
I don’t think I can reach you in private and what you have said and done is very public, so I am reaching out to you in this way.
You have walked away from your marriage. That’s not right. You have walked away from your faith in Christ. That’s even worse.
This says nothing about Jesus and a great deal about you.
Jesus told us there would be false prophets and teachers among us. Your story doesn’t invalidate Christ’s message because He predicted that people would do exactly what you have done. I just didn’t expect it would ever be you.
I do commend you for the intellectual integrity for recognizing that your secondary views (embracing the LGBT agenda, etc.) are utterly inconsistent with Christianity—as is your view that it is ok to walk away from your marriage for the reasons you have stated. Both of these proved that you had renounced Christianity before you said so publicly.
My heart aches for you in so many ways. It seems that you thought that Christianity was a series of formulas. Formulas for marriage. Formulas for systematic theology. Fear of choosing the wrong formula. Fear of failing to live up to your formula.
You know that I believe in the general approach to courtship that made you famous and pretty rich. You included the story of my oldest daughter and her husband in your second book.
I still believe that purity of mind and body before marriage is the right ideal. But it is not a formula for a happy marriage. It is simply a guiding principle that has to be applied with wisdom, grace, and often forgiveness.
I would never reach this conclusion about you on my own but what you have said yourself can be fairly summarized as this: you thought your faith and your marriage were based on formulas. They never went deeper than that.
Jesus says about people like you that in the last judgment, He will say, “Depart from me, I never knew you.”
You know that this means you never actually knew Him.
As immersed as you were in Christian culture and a career as a pastor, you never actually knew Jesus.
It gives me only heart ache to say these things to you. And Jesus will take no pleasure in pronouncing those words in judgment of you or anyone.
You haven’t walked away from a relationship with Jesus. You have walked away from the culture you were raised in.
Jesus still loves you at this moment. And so do I and countless others. And I will love you no matter what in the days ahead. But my love is tinged in deep sadness.
Josh, you and your story are not the measure of the validity of Christianity.
Jesus is real. He doesn’t want you to return to your prior formulas. He wants you to come to Him for the first time and learn to love.
I am praying for you, Josh.
With love and sorrow.
Mike Farris
Larry shows us what we always appreciated about him: a winsome appeal that s Josh to repentance with kindness.
https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/heres-the-deal/77369-a-heartfelt-appeal-to-my-friend-josh-harris
5yearsinPDI,
The 12 points from the Puritan Board were excellent. I had not considered those points at all but they make sense.
My information regarding BD’s position on ESS came from two sources:
http://abrentdetwiler.squarespace.com/brentdetwilercom/2012/5/16/cjs-conundrum-regarding-apostles.html
Brent wrote, “The fatherhood metaphor has been used by SGM as the dominant illustration for explaining its diminishing role in churches but there is absolutely no biblical basis for such a use. The paradigm is unbiblical.”
But you have to understand what he is rejecting as unbiblical. SGM was using the fatherhood metaphor (the apostle is the father, the church is the son) to explain why autonomous churches “mature” from having constant “father” oversight from an apostle just like adult sons are autonomous from their father once reaching adulthood. It isn’t that Brent dislikes the fatherhood metaphor in general, it’s that he doesn’t believe the relationship between the father and son diminishes as the son matures but rather uses ESS belief that Jesus is eternally subordinated to the Father to reject this particular use of the metaphor. Brent wrote,
“In fact, I would argue that the metaphor can properly be used to argue for the on-going involvement of an apostle throughout the life of a church. Here are the main points in support of this position.
Jesus Christ is eternally, not temporarily, subjected to the Father.
The Fatherhood of God continues throughout the believer’s life.
The authority and responsibility of a natural father continues in a son’s life until he leaves to be married. Obedience and honor are expected from the son while at home (cf., the patriarchal pattern of fatherhood in the OT shows an ongoing involvement in the lives of the children/grandchildren even after marriage; for example, Jacob with his 12 sons). ”
That is about as clear an ESS statement on the role of the apostle to the church as you can get.
http://abrentdetwiler.squarespace.com/brentdetwilercom/an-open-letter-to-todd-pruitt-regarding-his-unfounded-attack.html
The latter is BD’s response to a post by Todd Pruitt (http://www.alliancenet.org/mos/1517/what-is-a-gentleman-to-do-or-i-agree-with-wayne-grudem#.V_kTF-ArKUk) regarding the 2008 Trinity Evangelical Divinity School debate between Grudem, Ware, and Yandell and McCall on the heresy of the ESS. Some notable quotes from Brent:
“Personally, I think Yandell fails to see the inconsistency of his argument. He said in the debate that he sincerely holds to one God in three persons but he does not believe there are any eternal differences between them. Not even the self-evident differences that exist in a father-son relationship.”
“I totally disagree with Yandell and McCall logically, biblically, historically, and theologically. Jesus is God the Son. Therefore, he is equal to Father with respect to his deity. He is subordinate to the Father with respect to his person. He is both eternal God and eternal Son.”
“You (Todd Pruitt) are a false witness not only in respect to the TEDS debate but in general concerning the charge of heresy against Grudem and Ware and all who believe the Scripture teaches the Son is submissive to the Father given their differing but complementary roles and responsibilities.”
I do think SGM was ESS based in the beginning. Grudem and Mahaney were good friends and SGM paid for Grudem’s sabbatical while he wrote “Systematic Theology”. Grudem is very much into ESS, in particular how the Trinity is a metaphor for male-female/husband-wife relationships to biblically equate Jesus’ eternal subordination to the Father as being a metaphor for how women were eternally subordinate to men. God the Father was the “husband” and Jesus the “wife” which left the awkward question of what role the Holy Spirit is supposed to be in this metaphor. Grudem resolves this by referring to the Holy Spirit as the “child”. Just too creepy for me. It’s there in black and white in the ST book.
The ESS doctrine wormed its way into complementarian beliefs and practices in the churches, in large part because of SGM’s affiliation with Piper, Grudem and the Council For Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. If you want to read how far off into the weeds CBMW went with ESS, read Pastor Mark Walton’s article titled “Relationships and Roles in the New Creation” in the September 2006 issue of the Journal For Biblical Manhood and Womanhood which is a biannual publication of CBMW: http://cbmw.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/11-1.pdf Walton argues that in the new heaven and earth with our resurrected bodies, women will be subordinated to men just as Jesus is eternally subordinated to his father. It screams Mormonism. There is no much wrong with this article and I can’t believe it made into publication. What were senior editors Grudem, Ware, Ligon Dunson and Rebecca Jones thinking?
How this doctrine influenced the churches is evidenced in an audio copy I have of a teaching taught at a SG church Men’s meeting in 2004 in which the pastor states that “Adam was the dominator”, that “male headship reflects the Trinity”, “What we are affirming when it comes to male headship is none other than what the Trinity is like in its very relationship. If it is there in the Godhead, it has a place in our home.” and finally, the creation story in Genesis 2:23 “communicates the priority of men over women, the domination, in the best sense of the word, of men over women.” Pretty disturbing, isn’t it?
The good news is that with the new polity SGM appears to be moving away from this doctrine. Ian McConnell, one of the elders for SGM, appears to have firmly rejected ESS based complementarianism.
* that calls Josh to repentance.
Leighton Flowers has written an excellent book that refutes Calvinism called The Potter’s Promise. Among other topics, it also tackles the issues of free will and perseverance of the saints. Well worth the read and very relevant to many questions raised in this thread.
Not sure I agree with Mike Farris‘ statement that Josh never knew Christ to begin with. That sounds like he’s clinging to an irresistible Grace Calvinist trope. I think it’s possible that Josh knew Christ and was filled with the Spirit, but that he’s let the world’s mindset on sex creep in on him through massive amounts of media pressure and people saying he “harmed” them by writing a book they didn’t like (what a joke). So he’s just let the spirit get diluted to the point where becoming “woke” and repenting of christian morality looks like salvation. But I don’t know where his heart is at. Maybe he never did truly know the gospel he so effectively communicated. I guess that’s proof there’s power in the word, not the preacher.
David Joyce said,
Yes! There’s power in God’s Word. Sometimes the people God uses to communicate His Word end up walking away from it themselves. But the weaknesses and shortcomings and even outright unbelief of the messengers don’t negate the message.
Can one say,That Josh, did not. Ever believe his Gospel message?
I can’t say I haven’t known others, who have professed to believe in God, read and memorized scripture and even led others to Jesus and yet somehow, they were able to walk-away from Him, after being hit by hardships or loss. I can’t say I have ever totally understood it but it seems clear that trials either draw you closer to God or drive you farther away. In any case, it grieves me to the core and I have been mourning since hearing the news about Josh and Shannon. Very nearly the same thing happened to the person who led me to the Lord and now, it has happened to my former Pastor and friend! I can’t think of anything more sad. Still, I encourage myself with the thought that each of them knows the Truth and one day, they will be given another invitation. This brings me a measure of comfort in the midst of profound grief.
We wnt to belive the best, pray aginst the worst, hopping that the best outcome prevails.
It’s truly in The Almighty’s hands.
Lots of People watching and waiting to see the outcome of this turn of events of late.
Cee-
Your posts are fascinating and for me it is like the light is finally coming on about why Brent is the way he is, and why certain other SGM things happened. It is possibly the most momentous breakthough in my outlook on SGM in two decades. I can’t thank you enough for coming on here and posting.
I skimmed the Walton piece. In heaven, in my female glorified body and sinless state, I will still be a “weaker vessel”. LOL, how do they come up with this stuff? I am complementarian and think the verses about wives submitting to husbands mean something…but all women submitting to all men? No wonder some wives react so negatively to this subject.
To be fair, my husband pointed out that in the same way we will have indwelling sin all our life, but SGM weaponized that doctrine to gain control, not everybody into ESS has weaponized ESS doctrine to gain control the way BD has. Hub agrees it is wrong teaching, but assumes not all of the ESS teachers are control freaks. Back in our shepherding days, two men could hold the same views on authority, but one was kind and caring and the other just wanted to be the boss. So I don’t know how much blame is to be placed on the doctrine, and how much on the fallen heart.
You might like this site. I read some of it a while back but not nearly all of it:
http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2016/10/the-best-of-the-trinity-debate.php
Thanks again, your perspective has been most helpful!
Bob- you can’t refute verses about election and predestination. They are in the bible! All you can refute is the hyper Calvinistic false idea that our obedience does not matter, and scriptural calls to repent and believe don’t really mean what they say. I would suggest you read Spurgeon before making any final conclusions.
But the enemy’s of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, are going to try to make a field day of this news, of Josh’s recanting of the True Christian Faith, and of His Statements of deannouncing The Truth of the One and True Messiah Jesus Christ and His Good News to the Nation’s.
How God will redeem this, it will be to His Glory and Prase.
In addendum to what I had written quite a bit above:
My brother-in-law is a pastor. The man who led him to the Lord, and discipled him, later on, stopped believing in God. He wasn’t sleeping with anyone, except for his wife, and he wasn’t living in the bastion of liberalism. Quite the opposite. He was living in the center of what was then the most conservative county in the entire US. This county was even written about in law books/political books for it’s conservatism. But this man still ended up not believing in God.
It was hard on my brother-in-law to see his former mentor walk away, or believe something different. Moreso, it wasn’t easy on the man’s wife, now raising their two young boys with someone who no longer believed. More than 30 years passed, and, praise to the Lord, this man has returned to Christ. Returned to belief. It warms my heart to see him sitting in a pew, worshipping Christ. (Though, I am sure it warms his wife’s heart even more!)
I pray that for Josh, his family, and all those who are walking with Him.
I have been out of the CLC/SGM circus for some years now, and I rarely give any of it a passing thought these days. However, reading Harris’ statement leaves me freshly astonished. I get that he finally grasps the notion that ideas have consequences, and that the ill-conceived Courtship Cult that followed hurt a lot of people. But the whole 180 degree turn on homosexuality and Christianity in general…I cannot even begin to conceive a response.
Perhaps the CLC/SGM Courtship Cult was as cruel a master to him and his family as it was to everyone else.
Sadly, there is likely at least one more bombshell to fall.
Houston said,
My gut keeps telling me the same thing. Radically changing one’s views on sexual ethics, to the point where it necessitates walking away from the Christian faith, typically does not happen in such a (relatively) sudden and dramatic way without some sort of personal catalyst, either from one’s own life or the life of someone close.
Ugh! I’m holding my breath in anticipation of another bombshell, too.
Josh was doomed the moment he asked for feedback about how his books effected people…..as a person devastated by his courtship cult I find it hard to forgive him but I really hope he figures out that the real God and the SGM god are not one in the same
When one has to apologize to a particular group of people, and that their lifestyle is categorically opposed to the Bible and Christianity general, (Romans1) it makes you really wonder if there’s something more under the surface that’s brewing.
The judge of time will tell.
Chris Kasdorf said, “I really hope he figures out that the real God and the SGM god are not one in the same.”
Me, too, Chris, me too.
Chris, also, said, “Josh was doomed the moment he asked for feedback about how his books effected people.”
I think he was doomed the minute he was taught that the god of his childhood, and the god of SGM is the true God. I rejoice in this “falling away” so he can discard this old, wicked god of his, and hopefully, find the true, living, good, gracious, loving Jesus. You just can’t pour new wine into old wine skins.
Gen-1 to Rev-22:
Precisely.
For anyone interested in listening to Shannon’s music…
https://shannonbonne.bandcamp.com/
With warm vocals and imaginative lyrics, Shannon offers listeners an intimate glimpse of herself in this debut EP – an eclectic mix of pop and 70’s infused soft rock. It was produced by Scott Mathews (www.Scottmathews.com) in Mill Valley, CA.
Shannon performs all vocals and piano on the six tracks.
credits
released May 3, 2018
Shannon Bonne EP
All songs, lyrics & music by Shannon Bonne
{copyright Shannon Harris}
Produced by Scott Mathews at HitorMythProductions, Mill Valley, CA.
Mastering by Thomas Luekins, Mill Valley, CA
In light of the Harris’ separation, Shannon’s songs feel downright tragic. Those lyrics – so much melancholy and sadness.
I agree, Kris :-(
“Josh was doomed the moment he asked for feedback about how his books effected people.”
I was thinking something similar this AM. It seems as though all feedback was given equal weight. I witnessed people taking Josh’s book way beyond what he wrote and injecting their own legalism into it that brought it to a whole other level. Those were the adults. I watched him at a Q&A anger people for not agreeing with their hyper-legalistic comments about his book that made it into a religion. Some people were so hot about it, they left. Seeing it in person was eye-opening.
Chris Kasdorf, I am sorry if the book led you or those who influenced you or someone you cared about astray, but it was not his courtship cult and if you were devastated by it, you should blame the ones actually responsible. The Bible charges us to be discerning and if we, or those responsible for us, if we were kids, are not discerning, blaming the author of a book does not really do justice to the root issues. Those people would have likely found another way to I reject legalism or control into the situation. Yeah, there were some issues with Josh’s book, but none that should have done the damage it has purportedly done. That damage belongs to the throngs of parents, pastors, and and other adults who used it to add to Scripture. I actually think that Josh’s book is tangentially associated with the whole purity culture. I never heard about a purity ball within SGM, or the type of crap that Doug Wilson spews or the garbage that always makes it’s way into a tv spot on the purity culture happening in an SGM church. Yes, there were some serious issues with the way it was modeled and upheld, but not like the true purity culture that seemed to take root in some churches. The guys afraid to talk to girls thing was real and it was dysfunctional.
My brother used to have a saying for feedback about the songs he wrote, “All feedback is welcome. Not all feedback is equal.” What he meant was that it was equally important to differentiate which feedback added value to his work from that did not. This requires discernment, and SGM pastors, across the board, were very short on discernment, to the degree that it felt like it was by design. Josh seems either uninterested, unwilling, or unable to discern which stories he heard were valuable and which ones were not, in terms of evaluating his work. If his book was used as a weapon, as Elizabeth Esther stated, that is not Josh’s fault! People use the Bible as a weapon! Where are the people railing agai st the originator of this whole courtship idea, Elisabeth Elliott.
I am not sure if it was Josh’s sincere desire to empathize with the injured that led him down that path or what. Maybe, he saw so many injured in the wake of SGM, where he did not have the power to empathize and apologize that he felt a catharsis in being able to own everything people said about his book to the point of casting aside discernment. I don’t know, maybe there is more to the story and Josh just wanted an out.
I haven’t read this website in years, but recent events have sucked me back in the last few days.
A little background before I say what I want to say: My family started going Crossway in Charlotte when I was in high school and as a lifetime homeschooler I was ecstatic to be around a lot of other homeschoolers, and save for a few exceptions I swallowed nearly everything hook, line, and sinker while we were there. I totally bought into the idea of IKDG until a boy actually liked me–then I started secretly dating BD youngest son when I was seventeen (fun fact: BD’s son once told me that his father thought I was stubborn and I said that was the pot calling the kettle black).
Anyway, we went on the Grace church plant but after I sobbingly disclosed our plans to elope my family pulled out. That was over a decade ago (holy cow, time flies).
Currently, I am in flux, I love Jesus—but I am sorting through my own life and beliefs. Which is a wonderful but challenging thing to do.
Navigating out of fundamentalism is not for the faint of heart.
So, now what I really want to say:
I recently read this book entitled, “The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog: What Traumatized Children Can Teach Us About Loss, Love, and Healing” by Bruce Perry and Maia Szalavitz.
It’s changed the way I think about the choices people make. I found that after reading it, I am far less judgmental and far more compassionate.
I do believe in free will, I do. But as I hold in one hand the belief of individual choice, personal responsibility, and consequences for actions—I hold in the other hand the belief that not all choices are equal and the knowledge that we are often at the mercy of things we cannot control, life itself and the delicate dance of neurotransmitters in our head. We do shape our life, but life also shapes us.
I could be wrong, but as I unwind my own making and discover lies I’ve believed about myself and about God because of it—I believe there is enough grace for us to be wrong.
I believe with every fiber of my being that God is love above all else and that it might not be my job to figure out whose pain is worthy of my compassion.
Could Josh Harris be making a mistake? Maybe. But I don’t know what it was like to grow up in his family, I don’t know what lies he believed about himself and God because of the experiences he had (especially abuse).
Could BD be making a mistake on how he’s handling this? Maybe. But I don’t know what things he shouldered as a child. I don’t know what lies he believes about himself and God because of the experiences he had.
And at the end of the day — I believe there is grace for Josh, grace for Mr. D., grace for me, grace for all of us—when we are wrong. I believe we are held, always.
And at the end of the day, regardless of how it all ends—I trust that a multidimensional, outside of space, and time Being who created and holds and cares and loves every good thing (including me and you and Mr.D and Josh) in his hand is going to do what is best.
That to me is faith. The humility to acknowledge that at the end of the day—we’re all just trying to get home and trusting that the One who started all of this–is good.
Thoughtful, that is just too funny about you dating BD’s son behind his back! I pray you’re over him now! Lol! ;-)
I know another young lady who dated one of his other son’s behind his back, too. Just too funny!!!
While homeschooling, did you read many of C.S. Lewis’s books?