http://www.theexaminer.org/volume2/number4/rule.htm

Rich, thanks for those links. Would you mind re-posting them on the new thread?

http://www.tracts.com/2XT3B(x243).pdf

http://www.tracts.com/2XT3A(x243).pdf

Unfortunately there ARE a lot of Christians who will believe anything they hear without question; but there are also a lot of Christians that DO think for themselves, and question and compare what they hear to scripture on a regular basis.

Thanks to the internet, I honestly believe the body of Christ is more “Berean” today than it’s been in a long, long time. The average “layman” has more information available to him than EVER before. These pastors (the “big dogs”) had better wake up. The “Berean population” will continue to get bolder and louder, questioning the “big dogs” take on things and holding them accountable.

I’m afraid many of them are in for a rude awakening. It’s going to take some of them by surprise. And those poor guys that only have a “Pastors’ College degree”…they’d better keep hitting the sheep over the head with that “submit and obey” stuff.

How is this possible?

Is it that nobody actually “hears” what his words really mean? Are they so captivated by the rhythmic cadences of his speech patterns that they shut down and don’t really listen? Does nobody go home and search out the book of Hebrews for themselves, to see if “submitting and obeying your pastors” is REALLY the “main point” of Hebrews?

Hasn’t anyone ever noticed the strange implications of talking about Judgment Day in relation to a pastor’s role and how well a member submits to his pastor?

I’m really puzzled by this. How could Mark Dever and John MacArthur sit through this teaching and be OK with it?”

I agree!!! I keep asking folks the SAME THING!!!

You know, I “poo-pooed” the whole “rhythmic cadences of CJ’s speech patterns” putting people into some type of “hypnotic” state back when we were discussing it on some old threads…but I’m honestly starting to entertain the possibility.

You would think MacArthur and some of the others would do a better job at “guarding” their flock.

It’s sad!! These guys are starting to resemble politicians. They should be holding one another accountable. THEY should be the ones “watching the watchers!”

Like I was saying yesterday, I am very confused about how CJ can go around preaching this message all over the country, even to non-SGM churches, and NOBODY sees ANYTHING amiss with what he teaches?

How is this possible?

Is it that nobody actually “hears” what his words really mean? Are they so captivated by the rhythmic cadences of his speech patterns that they shut down and don’t really listen? Does nobody go home and search out the book of Hebrews for themselves, to see if “submitting and obeying your pastors” is REALLY the “main point” of Hebrews?

Hasn’t anyone ever noticed the strange implications of talking about Judgment Day in relation to a pastor’s role and how well a member submits to his pastor?

I’m really puzzled by this. How could Mark Dever and John MacArthur sit through this teaching and be OK with it?

…their concern is to prepare your soul for that final day, their concern is for your soul in relation to heaven and hell.

made me realize something.

If you really think about that statement – that pastors “prepare our souls” for “that final day,” and that they are concerned about our souls “in relation to heaven and hell” – it most DEFINITELY implies that there’s something way beyond the work of Christ involved in what happens to us on Judgment Day.

But the Bible never tells us that pastors “prepare our souls for that final day.” The Bible – especially (and ironically) the entire book of Hebrews – tells us that JESUS does this!

When did SGM pastors get so confused about their job description?

I find it particularly interesting to hear feedback from folks who used to attend CLC and listened to CJ week after week – I think they have a unique perspective on the nuances of this teaching.

Like Wanda, I’m really glad that you’re in a better place, with a pastor who has a better grip on what his role should be. It must have been painful to feel like your faith was based upon your performance rather than Christ’s.

5years,

I agree with you, I definitely see major elements of shepherding in CJ’s teaching, as well as some of the Roman Catholic ideas about priests as being a different class of believer than the average church member.