Right, totally understandable. As I said further down the post, I do fully realize that many here were part of SGM long before I had ever even heard SGM, and were involved way further up in leadership than I may ever be.

I am simply trying to express that, as One Mom alluded to, sometimes the stories hurt, and I can’t always laugh at the jokes, (though sometimes they get me rolling, did you guys read JP’s comment yesterday about the hippies getting converted and ordaining themselves? That was really great!), and sometimes I have to say, yeah, we stink at that. But I do hear all these things as someone who is still in SGM, and am happy where I am, I see God working where I am. Maybe, as Tony said on here somewhere, my pastors just happen to be “spiritual studs” and so we are not experiencing some of the abuse you have shared.

The main point of my comment above (or at least what I wanted the main point to be) is this: I am here as someone who is in SGM and is not experiencing most of the things described on this blog. I am not here, though, to cast stones or judge you for anything- not my job. I do care for you, many stories shared here have broken my heart. I do hope that you experience God’s grace wherever you end up. I also know that SGM has faults, and so I am here listening (reading) to see where we need to change (though again, I am not a leader within SGM, so my influence may be more limited).

I hope that helps to clarify a bit?

Thanks,

Philip

The discussion continues here, at “Fear, Control, and ‘Cultic’ Tactics”

Just as I, in choosing to stay, know I will read things that are hard for me to swallow, that I will have to spend time considering about, and that may ultimately cause paradigm shifts in my thinking… I am here open to that possibility.

One Mom:

Having had some paradigm shifts myself in the last year or so, I can appreciate that.

Though at times, I do feel as a son whose family is being attacked, and I am tempted to try to defend my families honor a bit. Not in the sort of way that someone mentioned that I need my family to be perfect or anything, I know there are areas that we need to change, and some areas that we may just downright stink at.

Philip,

Don’t forget that for some of us, this is/was OUR family, too. And some of us see what has happened over the years as a betrayal of the “one big happy family” image that we thought we were a part of. Some of us tried to deal with the changes, trying to “think the best” while others were brought into the family and took over.
So, any protectiveness or any sense of family was probably a part of some of US first.

LOL. I love your cake and muffin analogy. “Minion Muffins.” Funny!

You seem very open to the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to you, and that is a tremendous blessing. May God open the eyes of our understanding as we seek Him and His truth. Thank you very much for your openness.

Ok here’s one for the weekend:

Charles Joseph Mahaney = CJ’s a Money Pleaser Hahh*!!!

*HAHH (from the Urban Dictionary) – “Something I say when I’m laughing!”

Wish I could stay but I gotta run…..cya all later! ;-)

Admittedly, I have an active imagination. But I just picture the Father and Jesus in heaven, with the angels who have been assigned to help clean up after our messes (heh) — in conjunction with the Holy Spirit’s efforts here on earth — cheering us on and celebrating all the little victories along the way: the times that hard hearts have been softened, wounded hearts have been comforted with His healing salve, opinions have been challenged and mollified, Bibles have been cracked to search out issues that have been brought here, isolated (and sometimes “recovering”) SGM former members have found a forum to work through their experience with others who have experienced similar injuries, etc., etc.

I think one of the coolest things is we’ve seen firsthand that you really don’t just need more rules, tighter restrictions, and highly regulated policies and procedures (replete with sundry legal documents) to attain unity of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit really is very effective at accomplishing that on His own.

I agree with your comment: “oh, so to complete that thought — some of the defenders who come here might be fear-driven: they are frightened that we might actually be right.”

This makes the most sense to me, because Fear and Control are the two main ingredients of their Cozy Cultlike Cake. Infact, they are like the cream of tartar and egg of the batter, as without them the place wouldn’t hold or rise in power. Fear and Control are also the main ingredients in an abusive marriage or abusive relationship of any kind. The misuse of authority, whether you call it an apostle, prophet, or priest, as the head cook at the bakery,….only produces one product…..a bunch of minion muffins. So most of the SGM defender’s (except for a few) are M.&M.’S.

Phillip, you said:

“Also, in everything I do, I seek to balance my take on things with opposing points of view. So, for instance, as a Christian, I read the works of agnostics and atheists. As an evangelical, I read the works of left-leaning christians and writers of “quasi-christian” groups. As a calvinist, I read the works of arminians and open-theists. As a baptist, I read a lot of presbyterians (and am really, really almost convinced so many times!!). And so here, as an “SGMer”, I read your stories and arguments against our particularities and try to discern where we (more specifically I, since I am not a leader in the movement) need to change. I don’t suggest that I do all these things right, but I do think that we are all responsible for the things we say and do, the decisions we make, and I am trying to do the best that I can with what I have.”

You are one of the few!
This comment made me recognize that is why you seem so balanced and healthy in your reasons for joining the blog. You are a rare jewel, and personally someone like you, who is open, compassionate, well studied and not led by fear, seem more qualified to pastor a church than some ruling within the SGM ranks. If you ever do decide to take a Java Jolt, and flee, you really should consider it. You truly are a breath of fresh air on our little blog. Please keep sharing!

And Kris, could we do a thread on the use of fear and control….maybe we could all even do a little research on that topic. Although, I agree with all the discussion going on about Apostles, I don’t think they consider themselves like the N.T. Apostles, and they have said this over and over in writing, sermons, tapes, etc. Whatever rank they choose to wear, their abusive authority is rooted in control and creation of fear.

i was just recently “kicked out” of the church. not only was i kicked out, but at what they call a ‘family meeting’ they have about every 3 mos. pastor joshua harris handed out a list of all those who had left the church.

Do they realize how crazy that sounds, keeping track of people who left and who left on good graces vs bad? I understand its part of their “loving pursuit” practice but it sure sounds like damage control.