[Kris says: I found the following list on a site called Provender.]
Red Flags
No one ever wakes up one day and says, “Hey, you know? I think I’ll shame and abuse the flock today,” or “I think I’ll become a cult leader.” Instead, gradual changes take place, usually involving the lure of power that slowly takes hold.
If you study spiritual abuse, you can get a feel for how this happens: despite differing manifestations of abuse in churches, there are common denominators. Several sources cited on this site point out the following traits and show just how it is a church can move from a healthy body to a dangerous one.
1. Elitism: We’re more special
One common finding in cults and spiritually abusive groups is something called “elitism.” It’s a feeling that your vision for the church is superior to that of others. Though all churches, and most leaders, feel that they are on the right path, that their doctrines or practices are what God wants, that alone isn’t elitism. Elitism happens when you look at other churches or individuals and believe that your vision or your practices are among the very few that really please God. It is comparative. It is a superiority complex. This initial pride and puffing up – that can begin so very subtly — ends up justifying any abusive behavior that follows.
2. Information control: Don’t trust the members
Another common denominator in cults and abusive groups is something called milieu control. It is an attempt to control information available to members. This may start out as an innocent desire not to have heretical teachings invade the body. But this control becomes deadly in abusive groups. Before long, only those things approved by church leaders, and only material that portrays the church or leaders in a good light are allowed. Information is censored. Everything must go through the hands or control of the leader to make sure it is “appropriate,” “healthy” or “not divisive.” This can lead to tight control of information and eventually isolation from society at large, as certain information is deemed unholy or worldly and forbidden from members’ hands.
Anything the leadership wants you to believe is allowed and anything harmful to the image of the church, no matter how accurate or useful, is kept from members. In some cults, only certain translations of the Bible are allowed. In others, only “correct” interpretations of scripture are tolerated. In some groups any information not originating from the headquarters is deemed unsafe. How does this start? How does this control over others’ lives and minds begin?
With a desire to control – perhaps at first a healthy desire to keep doctrine pure – that gets out of hand. Sometimes it begins as a shortcut to keep hassles from members to a minimum. Innocent beginnings, but they can lead to tragic endings.
3. Image, image, image
Milieu Control is strongly related to another red flag: Image Consciousness. Abusive churches are concerned about image. Sometimes, image is everything. This church has a vision superior to other churches. To preserve that lofty status, anything negative must be quashed immediately, even if it is true. If a leader is caught in sin, the sin is quickly swept under the rug. If many members have left, no one is allowed to talk about it. The church “represents Christ to the community” and you can’t let the public know that the church has a problem or people will think Christ does. This is COMMON practice in abusive churches and is close to idolatry, equating the church, or church leaders, to Christ himself.
4. Shame, flattery and manipulation
Image Consciousness, in many abusive churches, leads to harsh treatment and manipulation of members. To keep negative information from leaking out of the body, members are sometimes shamed or spoken against — sometimes from the pulpit. Ministries are whisked away from those who begin to ask questions, and ministries are used as rewards to “loyal” members who know how to keep quiet about the misdeeds of leaders, or who prove useful through slavish work or flattery of leaders. And in abusive groups, flattery goes both ways. Leaders know how to flatter and how to shame to keep the image of the church polished and gleaming.
5. Authoritarianism: I’m in control; you shut up
Another red flag is authoritarianism, the concentration of power in the hands of a few or sometimes even one person. That power can start out used well. The maxim “power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely” is especially true in churches. It corrupts leaders in different ways.
6. Two kinds of corruption
Some are lured by the financial aspects of power and begin to lavish on themselves gifts and luxuries. How does this happen? Possibly, these once godly leaders have sacrificed much over the course of their lives while watching other Christians live luxuriant lives. When the church begins to do well, they see this as a sign that it’s “their turn now,” that they deserve some blessings because they have served so long and so hard for very little. Soon, that feeling of dessert takes over and they feel entitled to more and more. Eventually some may even feel they deserve other men’s wives or multiple wives.
More dangerous, though, than leaders who fall to hedonistic ways are those who believe that because their vision for the church is direct from God that God’s mind and their mind are becoming fused. They soon begin to see their own actions as God’s. Anyone who opposes them is opposing God. When this happens, watch out. They won’t phrase it that way. They may not even realize what they are doing. They feel they have a special place as God’s best spokesperson. Because they are so special, they will steamroll over anyone in their way. Because they are anointed, they soon feel they have a role in rooting out imperfections among lesser Christians.
7. Excellence, or legalism?
These leaders can become more than just haughty; they can become harsh and demanding. They look down on others around them and puff themselves up, all the while stressing the need for humility. They begin to practice a perfectionism that kills. It won’t be called perfectionism. It might be called “striving for excellence” or “pursuing a holy life” or “giving God His due.” It becomes legalism and it drains the life out of individuals and churches, as members try harder and harder to meet standards that become out-of-reach. While members are whipping themselves for failing to perform, the preaching will be on grace. While members are burdened and shackled to legalistic aims, the sermons will be on freedom. But members are not feeling free or forgiven. They are loaded down with guilt and work and feelings of failure.
8. Calling concern “divisiveness”
Another red flag is a false call to unity. When authoritarian pastors want to quell dissention, they label even legitimate questions “divisive.” You are interfering with the unity of the brethren if you raise issues of concern. This tactic ensures a lockstep, zombie-like following and cements the cult leader or abusive pastor into his place at the top. Who wants to be divisive? Who wants to cause trouble? Who wants to be spreading heresy or harboring a critical spirit or injecting division? (These are common phrases used against those expressing concerns about abusive leadership and serve as giant, fluttering red flags.) Most humble, sincere Christians concerned about wayward leadership will be cowed by such tactics. The abuses of the leader will continue unchecked.
9. When people slink out
The final red flag in this short overview is the telltale indication of trouble signaled by people leaving a congregation. If spiritual abuse is taking place, you might not catch on right away. People in manipulative groups will have been warned – subtly or otherwise – not to talk about church problems. They will be called weak or gossipers or immature if they mention why someone left. Those who leave also may suffer residual effects of controlling mechanisms in the church and say little about why they left.
If you notice an exodus of people from a congregation, it’s a sign to dig further and check for other signs of spiritual abuse.
These are just some of the roots of spiritual sickness to watch for in your congregation, but they seem the most common.
I never got the "meeting" thing, either. 
November 28th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Isn’t it funny how many times I thought of Sovereign Grace Ministries while reading that list?
Hmm wonder why
November 28th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
This article hits the nail on the head.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:02 am
Well done! I think back to a cult a friend of mine was involved in back in the 70′s — a “textbook” example.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Kris, this “Provender” site has some good stuff!
It’s sad to see so much on the internet and in the bookstores on spiritual abuse these days, but I’m glad it’s there. This stuff has been going on in varying degrees in various forms for years as a result of the influence that the shepherding movement and folks like Bill Gothard had on the church. I’m amazed at just how often you can still find a “shepherding practice” within a church. No one has any idea that the practice has it’s roots in the shepherding movement. If there was ever a time to be a “Berean”, it’s now!
Within CW, I especially saw #1 – “Elitism: We’re more special” and #7 – “Excellence, or legalism?” The “elitism” was unlike *ANY* I’ve ever observed. I’ve observed people who felt elite due to money, professional status, academic degrees, etc., but CW’s spiritual elitism has been the worst, and the most toxic. Their elitism and legalism have damaged a lot of people through the years.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Excellent. Thanks for providing information on this subject. Too many believers think that they would never find themselves in an unhealthy or cultic group, but it happens more often than we think.
Every believer should know the red flags.
Thanks again,
Wendy J. Duncan
Author: I Can’t Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult
November 29th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
All of this sounds so frighteningly familiar.
I still have family in Old Church.
It’s shocking to see it presented to me all in one place.
It’s weird that it can be so familiar and such a slap in the face at the same time.
Does that make sense?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Yes it does, Cheryl.
Welcome to the site.
I saw where you asked about a place to share your story. Just jump in “anywhere” and share. Right here is fine.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Thanks for posting this! It’s clear, concise and, above all, very real. There certainly is a subtle elitism in SGM. Also, I’ve noticed that whenever another pastor comes to a church, they spend a while letting everyone know what great friends they are and then patting each other on the back for their greatness and humility. It’s so fake and disgusting and resembles #4. And #8 is so true! People get hammered all the time at “church family meetings” about how talking about what the leaders are doing is “gossip” and “divisive” and spreads negativity and it all gets tied back to their ridiculous concept of “church discipline”.
As for #2, I’ve gotten so tired of SGMers giving people looks when they quote a translation other than the ESV (cause its the “true Bible” according to one young 20ish devotee [sadly I'm not joking]) and of course Wayne Grudem’s 5th Gospel (Systematic Theology) which is so full of obvious theological inconsistencies. Ugh! Sorry, I’m done venting.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Spot on. Again.
It’s true of SGM, and true in too many churches from sea to shining sea.
The way I see it, we (the Church) have a problem on a very large scale.
So, what do we do?
Some are praying for a national revival, but isn’t it true, that if God sends His Spirit to bring revival, it starts with setting His own house straight?
I’m just asking.
??
November 30th, 2009 at 12:20 am
I just realized, as I read my post, that I might make more sense if I put a little context in.
The church we now attend, is the one we sought refuge in after escaping SGM. The pastor here just loves CJ and SGM. He knows all the details of our life in, and escape from, SGM and could only be perplexed at our story when compared with what he sees by his observations of SGM.
This pastor is implementing more and more SGM practices, and knows that we are watching closely.
Every one of the 9 points mentioned in this article are already identified (by us) in this church.
How do we know this?
Been there, Done that.
So I am wondering, is SGM the problem, or just a conduit for a larger cancer in the Church?
(I personally think SGM is just a part of a larger problem.)
I’m just thinking…………
November 30th, 2009 at 1:51 am
Defender,
Sometimes I wonder–with regard to churches and the Church–if there is a safe place on earth.
I have been learning to find my safety with Him, first and always.
(But someone dear to me has begun going to a wonderful little warm and quirky church that makes me think there’s still hope for the whole concept… I go there sometimes too.)
November 30th, 2009 at 8:03 am
Hi, Cheryl -
I loved your comment on the other post. Thanks for that, and welcome to the site!
I think what you share is absolutely relevant to our discussion, because one of my biggest concerns – one of the things that drives me to continue here even sometimes when I get tired of the whole subject – is that it seems to me like SGM’s influence among a certain segment of Bible-based churches is only growing. And these churches only seem to see SGM’s shiny and attractive outer shell. It’s like they have no clue about the destruction that can be wrought if SGM’s approaches are implemented across the board.
So I’m glad that you’re here and hope you share your own story with us in more detail.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:04 am
Wendy -
Thanks for commenting! I so appreciate the resources you’ve made available on your site.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Defender,
It’s so interesting that your post-SGM church is on the SGM love train these days, even though your pastor knows your story. I’m guessing that there are far more pastors (and churches) out there who have never seen or heard anything about SGM’s “dark side.” At least you’ve freely shared with your pastor what he needs to guard against.
I was thinking about what SGM’s appeal is all about. On a personal level, I really don’t get it. Of course, I’m not a pastor. But the first time I saw CJ preach (via an online video), I experienced total cognitive dissonance – where what my eyes and ears were telling me was totally opposite what I thought I “knew” to be true about CJ and SGM. To me, CJ does NOT seem “humble,” not in the least. And I didn’t think that what he taught was very deep or moving, either. He has a way with words, of course, but if you dig beneath the surface of his words, he’s really not saying a whole lot. (I think this is particularly evident in the transcript of the Happiest Place On Earth sermon.)
So I couldn’t for the life of me understand why non-SGM pastors would be so drawn to the SGM way of doing things.
But I’m thinking that non-SGM churches (and pastors) see SGM from the outside and first of all are wowed by the whole package, the picture of (seeming) unity that SGM presents to the world…even in the face of SGM’s counter-cultural hardline stances on sin and church discipline. Pastors read the stuff that SGM puts out on topics as mundane as modesty and think, “Wow – if *I* tried to tackle this subject from the pulpit, half my congregation would take offense and leave! I’ve GOT to find out their secret for being able to get so many people to ‘think biblically’!”
Also, I think SGM holds a special appeal for non-Charismatic “Reformed” churches. They see the (apparent) unity, they see the people’s (seemingly willing) openness to correction and receptiveness to “hard” messages about sin, and then they hear the idea that “God wants happy pastors”…and it is all so opposite to the reality of their current experience…so they look at what might be causing SGM to have such a different level of success…and the one thing (looking from the outside in) that they can point to that IS different is, of course, SGM’s “continuationist” stance on “the gifts.”
And of course, as we’ve discussed before, SGM does implement a lot of things that can be good. In this day of impersonal megachurches, it can be good to have mandatory involvement in small groups. It can be good to have mandated militant friendliness to visitors, where the new person is invited out to lunch on his very first Sunday. Lots of people like SGM’s music, too. If you apply a regular orthodox understanding of terms such as “gospel” and “cross,” SGM’s song lyrics can seem highly deep and meaningful, without all the heaviness that comes with an insider’s knowledge of the redefinition of those terms.
So yeah, on the one hand, I have a difficult time understanding why any pastor would listen to CJ and NOT feel odd about all the fake self-deprecation, the high-sounding but sort of puffed-up lingo that he uses when he preaches…and especially, what is UP with that self-congratulatory cackle as he laughs at his own jokes?
But on the other hand, I can see how non-SGM churches are lured in. SGM invests a HUGE amount of energy into image-grooming, into squelching anything negative, into quickly covering up and rewriting history so that they look perfect. They use all the right orthodox terms…and it takes a very alert and perceptive person to figure out the very subtle ways that those terms get redefined for insiders. Non-SGM churches struggling with all the usual messiness of people see SGM’s smug (yet seemingly humble) and tidy face and long to know the methods for their success.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:10 am
I thought that churches would want to emulate or join SGM partly because of the elevated power that they gave to pastors but what just happened recently at our local SGM church just blows my mind. There was a church about 30 minutes away that was wanting to be adopted by SGM. Our former pastor was meeting with them for a year (?) to discuss this possibility. I just found out that they decided this would not be a good idea because they were already planning on planting a church another 30 minutes from there and they thought that it would be too close SO (and this is what blows my mind) all 100+ people from that said church moved to our old SGM church. They closed their doors and moved the entire congregation 30 minutes away because they wanted to be an SGM church that badly. WHY????
Did the number of people leaving recently cause them to think that they needed more members to support the church financially? Oooh, that sounds bad, I can’t believe I just said that! I really just don’t get it. What made them want to be in the club that badly?
November 30th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Luna,
I suppose I’m an optimist. But I believe that there are “safe” churches out there. I think the keys are:
1) Know that – as you said – our real safety lies in God, and we can trust Him; and
2) That we look for churches that have structural safeguards in place for addressing problems and providing checks and balances.
I’ve said this many times, but I cannot for the life of me understand how ANY church that emphasizes our innate sinfulness as much as SGM does could then turn around and place so much power in individuals. The pyramid structure of church governance simply contradicts everything that SGM pastors proclaim about their “worst sinner” status.
If a pastor is truly the “worst sinner he knows,” then why – OH, WHY – would he ever think that he doesn’t need some form of formal accountability to his congregation?
Certainly, if he’s really the “worst sinner he knows,” then that would mean he’d believe that there are members of his congregation who would know more and have more Godliness than he does. You’d think he’d want those folks to be his “boss” on some level.
I don’t understand why any “worst sinner” would at the same time believe that the buck should stop with him in terms of decisions.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Because he really doesn’t think that. He is only saying it. And that proves it.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Kindred said something in post 4, and your response, Kris, got me thinking.
Our pastor did come from the Jesus People church up in Minneapolis. He was a pastor there. (Shepherding )
After that “blow-up” he came to the baptists, just like Defended and I did. He is a fantastic preacher/teacher.
I think he wants to be essentially reformed, yet charismatic.
Don’t get me wrong, I am reformed (Lutheran), and a Holy Spirit baptized, tongue talking, lay hands on healing charismatic, …. BAREAN.
(I was once told by a Baptist Elder that I am an oxymoron.)
Anyhow, it’s like that shepherding stuff gets in your veins, and if you weren’t hurt by it, you want to reproduce it.
We are watching our little Baptist church go that way, and I am using it as a teachable time to show my kids how it looks when a church goes slowly wrong.
They are getting it.
The youth pastor (Son-in-law to the pastor) can only talk about sin and killing sin.
I keep asking God why we are still here in this church, and He reminds me that we have stable respectful relationships with three out of five of the elders of this church at this time.
I have this little echo running in my head and it gets loud from time to time, “Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect— if that were possible.”
Come Quickly Lord Jesus!
November 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Great post!!!!! SGM does fit in each and every one of the points. In point # 6, SGM leadership totally falls into the second type of corruption, where they believe and have said the leadership/pastors are the ones that stand in front of God for the members. They all believe they have a special relationship with God because they are pastors that the members don’t have and therefore know better.
Defender wrote: Anyhow, it’s like that shepherding stuff gets in your veins, and if you weren’t hurt by it, you want to reproduce it.
Me: Very good point! CJ was never hurt by it, in fact he has done quite well financially off it. He just took it (and Larry at the time) and toned down the language used to describe it – i.e. no longer “you have to get permission to go on vacation/buy a house/change jobs” to “we would like to be able to counsel you on major life decisions”
Gone is the “shepherd” you report to, now it is called a “Care Group Leader”. It is no longer “every aspect of your life will be naked and bare before your shepherd” but “True fellowship in care group will involve sharing your struggles with your care group”. And the thing you don’t find out until you are in leadership is that a written report of the activities of all care group members is to be submitted to the “pastoral team” under the guise of “pastoring”.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Fredom writes: “And the thing you don’t find out until you are in leadership is that a written report of the activities of all care group members is to be submitted to the “pastoral team” under the guise of “pastoring”.”
WHAT?!?!
Are you kidding?
What is your evidence for this? (Is this true?)
November 30th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Yup, this happened at my church too. It was standard procedure to fill out a form on who was there, who wasn’t, why and if anything ‘important’ was discussed.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
About the care group reports/forms…
Some of this depends upon the church – as the SGM defenders tirelessly point out, there can be some variation between various congregations in the Sovereign Grace
denominationfamily of churches – but it is fairly common for the pastors to request that small-group leaders report back to them in some fashion. And of course, as the defenders would also be quick to say, there can be some perfectly good, benign reasons for this.For one thing, it IS a way for a pastor to keep his finger on the pulse of his congregation. It’s good for pastors to know what is going on in their people’s lives.
BUT…
I think an important thing to keep in mind is that most of the time, the members aren’t precisely aware that what they share in the confines of their small group will then be passed on in such a fashion. I’m pretty sure that there’s not full disclosure about this practice.
And I think that’s where the problems lie.
One of the main purposes behind having small groups in the way that SGM has them is to help people become vitally connected to other church members. One of the main goals is to form deeper, more intimate relationships than one would be able to develop during one’s chatfests during the Sunday meeting intermission, or after church. There’s this sense that one’s small-group members are supposed to be closer, more intimate. They’re supposed to know one better. And one is therefore supposed to let one’s guard down and share more personally with one’s group members.
I just wonder how different the group dynamic would be during, say, the “confession” times, if people were reminded that their leader would be filling out a report to hand in to the pastor. I’m guessing that in many cases, people might put the brakes on sharing about certain struggles and sins if they were made more aware of just how that information was about to leave the room. But instead, they’re lulled into a comfort zone brought about by their familiarity and deeper relationships with their group leader and other members.
It’s really not difficult to see how all sorts of issues could crop up with this system.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
That’s like finding out that when you left your neighbor to watch your home while you were on vacation, he bugged your house and has been listening to your private conversations ever since.
It’s dishonest, and creepy.
Talk about the epitome of gossip!
November 30th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
In my own experience (thus far) I had to practically twist my community group leader’s arm to get him to keep quiet about the issues I’m having with the church. It took some serious persuasion to get him to not “get pastoral care” for me. I don’t know the exact procedures, but I’m pretty sure it goes on.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Like I said, I can see some good in the practice of keeping pastors “in the know.”
I think the big thing is disclosure.
And – as Kyle points out – permitting the members to have final say about what gets shared and what does not.
If you think about it, it really would make for a weird dynamic in what are supposed to be close relationships, in a setting where there is supposed to be a much greater level of openness and vulnerability. I guess a person would just have to forever be mindful that whatever he shares in his small group is fair game for his pastor.
Even then, though – it just occurred to me how scary it is to think of a small-group leader sort of summarizing everyone’s “needs.”
Nobody is a 100% perfect listener…let alone a lot of guys, especially the guys who would qualify for leadership roles within SGM.
(No offense meant to any care group leaders out there reading this of course!) How many times have we experienced re-telling someone else’s story and either completely missing the point or else leaving out some crucial detail that changes everything? I just wonder how often this happens in these small-group reports? I’m guessing more often than most people would wish!
I’d MUCH prefer to have some jurisdiction over my own life events, sins, and needs, thankyouverymuch! If my small-group leader thinks I need to run something by my pastor, then he should tell me, and let me use my own judgment about when and how (and if!) I decide to share it.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
I’m a “guy” and I listen…sorry..couldn’t resist
November 30th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Guy…
Heh. You ARE a great listener. But then again, I doubt they’d ever have made you a care group leader, either.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
I was actually voted “Most Likely to Never Be a Care Group Leader” in high school..imagine that.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Y’know, I just realized that I don’t really like my “men aren’t good listeners” crack in comment #25.
The truth is, PEOPLE don’t often listen well enough to be super-accurate in the re-telling of stories and situations and whatnot. After all, what is the age-old childhood game of “telephone” about, if not to illustrate how easy it is to muddle what someone else tells us?
It’s not a man thing. It’s a PEOPLE thing. Sorry, guys. (And Guy.
)
November 30th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
I got to thinking about something. (Dangerous thing, that.)
Over the past couple of years, I’ve heard from enough former small-group leaders from enough SGM congregations all over the country that I think it’s pretty fair to say that the vast majority of SGM churches do indeed practice this “small-group leader reporting” thing in some fashion.
So I’m wondering, all you SGMers out there – were you told that this was happening? If so, how? Was there ever a time when sensitive information (information you had assumed would be kept private among your group members) was shared with your pastor(s) without your knowledge or permission?
Is full disclosure about the reporting practice common in SGM churches? Did it catch anyone by surprise?
November 30th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Kris, I appreciate the link to Provender–which then led me to another interesting site about this whole idea of pastoral authority: http://coveringandauthority.com
Leighton Tebay does a great job of outlining the Theology of Covering (a la Watchman Nee — I think I still have a copy from CLC) — and debunking it point by point with scripture and reason.
Here are some excerpts:
“The challenge in crafting theology is coming up with ideas and concepts that best represent the whole counsel of scripture. To get “Covering Theology” to work requires ignoring significant relevant passages in scripture. It just doesn’t fit with Jesus’ words about leadership. It doesn’t fit with Pauls concept of the church as a body. If submission to church leaders is based on their position is so important why isn’t it clearly laid out in scripture and reinforced by example? Why would Paul go to such great lengths to the convince the Corinthians that they should listen to him because of his life and ministry and not the people who had “letters of recommendation” and judge things according to the flesh? How could prophets like Jeremiah and John the Baptist say such negative things about their leaders if we are called to be unconditionally submitted to authority? Why aren’t we warned in the New Testament that we open ourselves up to demonic deception and spiritual disaster if we don’t submit to the authority of church leaders? This would be a really big deal if it were true and yet the entire New Testament is silent on it? ”
“Being a leader isn’t easy. Watching people make their own choices and their own mistakes is difficult. However we cannot fix that by scaring them in to listening to us. It doesn’t work, it doesn’t help, it is isn’t leadership and it certainly isn’t biblical.”
“Covering Theology wielded in the hands of a secure, caring person will only have a moderately negative impact on people. If the authority in question has issues like dependency, anger, insecurity, desire for control then the abuse can be acute and devastating.”
November 30th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
I new it was happening because I would hear the care group leader say privately to us about someone else’s situation “we need to tell the pastor’s about that”. Or they would tell us about some other problem they heard about in small group leaders meeting that was going on in someone else’s care group. So yeah I knew that the pastor’s were well informed but at the time I kind of liked the “tattling” aspect of it. In fact, to be honest, we did our fair share as well.
I guess we just didn’t think that people were doing the same thing about us. Little did we know…….
I am telling you, we were SOLD OUT! Maybe that is why we have swung so far in the other direction. I am so sick of it now that I can’t even stand to hear old SGM songs when there really isn’t anything inherently wrong with most of them.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
The tattling and reporting is sickening.
The parents of youth and college kids were always particularly bad. They were CONSTANTLY scrutinizing the kids and sharing their “observations,” and the kids knew it. You could watch them and tell by their body language that they knew the adults “were watching.” At times it felt as though the adults almost enjoyed it….it was weird!
SGM teaches “no gossip and slander,” and then they turn around and actually encourage such by implementing some of this stuff..
It’s crazy!
November 30th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Hey Guys,
This is my first, probably only post as I am not sure overall it would benefit me to be on here much, but really wanted to share.
I didn’t know where to put this, so Kris – or whoever- if you could please move this if there is a more appropriate place I’d be really grateful. :-)
I’ve been reading a bit the past couple days and then several months ago, and I’ve been super conflicted, so I decided to share my story and if that could even encourae one person or help clarify anything or give hope I’d like that. :-)
PREFACE: My family is NOTHING like what I will say anymore. The pastors we dealt with I have heard are totally different men now. I am not posting this for a “woe is you – look at what those awful men did to you”, but rather so you can see I know where you’re coming from and I am not unaware of the issues and problems. I am not talkin about all of the GOOD things that came from old church just in the interest of time and such, but God did do a lot through that church and specific peers and adults growing up were great examples of Christ to me, but they don’t get highlighted here. :-p
I am 26 years old, and I have been part of SGM since I was 5 and we were “People of Destiny” :-)
We started attending when I was 5 and it was just me, my mom and dad, and baby sister. I don’t really remember any major changes because I was getting numerous spankings a day before we ever met our SGM pastor. *grin* From 5 – 14 my family was fairly normal. (and increased to several more kids) My dad had an explosive temper and was mildly abusive physically. But,since we were in a church that encouraged frequent and “serious” spankings I just thought everybody’s family was like that. If you got bruises sometimes it’s just part of being spanked. My mom homeschooled us and we went to homegroup and all of our friends were home schooled *i was specifically told not to TALK to public schoolers because they would teach me bad things, and their parents didnt care about their souls* I loved to sing and dance – I wanted to speak in tongues – I wasn’t popular, but I loved my church and my life. Overall…
Then things to started to change… my mom stopped coming to church as much, and when I was 14, a member of our extended family had major health issues, and I got primary responsibility of the house and the kids. By the time I was 15, this family member had died and we stopped doing school altogether. My mom stopped going to church at ALL, stopped leaving her bedroom let alone the house. (but continued to procreate) I wanted to protect my family. ALLLLLL growing up it was “Don’t dishonor your family” “make the family look good” because my mom was always afraid pastors or home group leaders would judge us, would judge her. So, I didn’t say anything – I actually didn’t know anything was wrong for years. I had been taught my whole life that my parents were right, I was wrong, and to make the family look good. So I did… or I tried. I still went ot church, I still went to homegroup – I made dinner ,did dishes, changed diapers, vaccuumed, made my mom all her meals in bed, tried to make my dad happy, but that was a lost cause. I couldn’t make him happy because he thought I was lazy. He thought I was argumentative. He thought I wasn’t good enough. No matter what I did I wasn’t good enough. So, I started being bulimnic. Not eating and then eating a lot nd throwing up. I hated myself because I couldn’t be a good homeschooler. I couldn’t do the right things. I tried talking to my youth pastor’s wife, I said “Mrs. X, if I have to change another diaper I’ll scream!” and she chided me for not wanting to serve and complaining. I asked for prayer every week and then it got to a point where she told me “I am sick of praying for you because you don’t change.” At one point I called my pastor and I said “Mr. Z, I don’t know what to do. We haven’t done school in 3 years and my 9 year old brother can’t read.” and he told me verses about honoring my parents and told me i needed to confess to my dad THAT DAY that i had talked to the pastor and that i had dishonored my parents. (he has apologized to me since) Another time I prayed with a pastor’s wife for what I perceived as lust in my heart, but because the sermon had been on sexual sin my pastor called my parents (I WAS 20!!!) and told them i was keeping immorality from them. and my mom got mad because i had dishonored the family by publically praying after a sermon like that. It was REALLY REEALLY hard. I had people who befriended me, but over and over because I didn’t change they would not want to be my friend anymore. I was told constantly that I was not good enough. I was a bad christian.
Well, in 2004 my parents repented and rededicated to The Lord and started going back to church, but because of the judgement they feared from our previous church, they started going to a new church and that church saved my family and saved my life. Literally.
But, at the time I was still dedicated to our previous church, sort of. I planned to go away to a Christian college and then come back. I had started cutting myself and contemplated suicide every day. I hated myself SO much. Went to Christian college, got kicked out, came home, and first sunday back a girl from my caregroup said “Why haven’t you been at church the last couple weeks – that’s really not good for your spirit.” I politely informed her that she had been at my GOING AWAY PARTY and then I went home and never went back.
My first sunday at our new church – or one of the first – the senior pastor used an example of cutting in his sermon, and i went up to him and i said “Mr. X, I didn’t know you knew about me, but thank you for talking about that issue openly. No one ever wants to admit it’s a problem.” and he looked at me and he said “I didn’t know. But I love you, and I care about you, and I want you in this church.” I couldn’t believe in it. Someone wanted ME!!! Someone felt that I could receive God’s love. I could receive grace. I could be saved. I wasn’t God’s biggest mistake. Over the next several months and years I was welcomed . I had pastors apologizing to me for the wrongs done at my previous church, even though 95% of the time they hadn’t even been involved. I was told the Gospel in a way I had NEVER heard it before – in a way where I didn’t have to be good enough. I didn’t have to be one of the few and select. God loved ME just as much as my pastor. I could walk up to my pastor and TALK! I didn’t have to go through the hierarchy. I could be honest about my family. I had a pastor tell me that if I said the word he’d support me in calling CPS and getting my siblings out of there. MY pastors are FOR me!!! They LOVE me. And the LOVE JESUS more than their reputations, more than their desires and what they want the church to look like – they are not out to impress the SGM big wigs or anybody else except Jesus!! They want to serve because they love us. They want to help becuase they love us. And when they confront, or correct, or discipline it’s because THEY LOVE US!!! There have been REALLY HARD situations in my church. Molestation, rape, audultery, divorce, homosexuality, and then “Every day sins” like cutting, alcoholism, eating disorders, premarital sex, etc… and you know what? Every person has been told “I sin big time too” and every situation has been handled for the glory of God. They have made mistakes. They have hurt people. They have sinned, but their aim and intent has always been for the Glory of God and the good of their church. And when they mess up – they admit it. They ask forgiveness. They ask for help. My pastors are the humblest men I know – and that’s not the empty flattery y’all are concerned about. It’s just true.
*deep breath* I know that was a lot. I know that’s a lot more detail than most people give, and believe me I did think about, but I am not afraid of “SGM Big Wigs” reading what I have to say and being offended because I know it’s true, and whatever may have happened in the past or in specific churches in the present – I know that my pastors and the men who oversee MY specific local church love The Gospel, love the truth, and love me.
Incidentally, my siblings are now in a great homeschooling program, parents have a lot of accountability from friends and their caregroup, my mom and dad dont believe in spanking except in VERY rare sitations.
I hope this was okay to write…. I just want everyone to know that it’s not SGM it’s specific pastors, it’s specific situations and specific sin… I made it through the “SGM HEll Hole” and GOD brought me out!! GOD rescued me, and it didn’t take leaving SGM to do it. It might take it for you, but please don’t hate SGM and all of her churches… there is good… and soooo much has changed!! At least from where I sit… I stil don’t go back to my previous church, but I am sure there is bitterness there. I get physically ill when I walk through the doors, so I cannot speak for them, but the church I am in now is great!
November 30th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
sorry for all of the spelling and grammatical errors :-p
November 30th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
November 30th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Thanks “Acme” I LOOOOOVE your profile pic!!!
Thanks for the welcome – I was really scared posting a semi pro SGM post… 
November 30th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
SGMChick,
Thank you for sharing your story. I’m so glad you and your family are in a healthier place and growing in love with Jesus more and more!
November 30th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
A…HERE
SGMChick…my heart breaks for what you had to go through. I see that crap now and it breaks my heart.
The worst is here.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Hi, SGMChick…
Thanks so much for sharing your story. Like the others, I am grateful that you’re in a much better place these days!
November 30th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
Thanks Bunches Guys!! I feel welcomed- thank you!! i wish i knew where more people were from as they share stories – I have been SO SURE some stories came from FCCers because they sounded so like what I knew growing up :p
November 30th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
SGMChick…
Something I’ve come to understand as I’ve done this site for a little over 2 years is that the stories come from SGM churches all over the country. I know that you believe that the issues are limited to certain churches and certain pastors. Certainly, some names and places seem to come up a lot more frequently than others.
But I think the problems are not really about individuals or particular congregations. The bad things that people have experienced because of SGM happen through what I call the “perfect storm” of things – the first and foremost being SGM’s beliefs and teachings on authority. Then you add to that their firm belief that pastors are called to model very specific behaviors and lifestyle choices to their people, behaviors and choices that leadership deems “more wise.” Then you factor in the “X” factor, which is the individual member’s neediness, messiness, or particular vulnerabilities.
But the bottom line is that about 99% of the wretched stories shared here would not have happened without SGM’s teachings and views on pastoral authority.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
I should add, SGM’s teachings and views on pastoral authority then trickle down into “authority” in all facets of a member’s life. So what parents are taught about their authority, and what young people are taught about how they must respond to authority, all connect to pastoral authority.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:39 am
SGMChick — thanks so much for sharing your journey. I was heartbroken to read about your mom not being able to leave her room. It sounds as if she had no friends around to help her out, pray for her, etc. You deserve much praise for changing all those diapers, and I hope you now realize that your sacrifices helped strengthen your family in difficult times.
Kris — about care-group “reporting”. At one point in time, ushers at the “meeTing” were told to go from merely counting the number of latecomers to WRITING DOWN THEIR NAMES so that their lateness could be reported to their caregroup leaders. Really. But then, one usher said, “No. I’ll count numbers of people who attend; I’ll count the number who are late. But I will not write down their names and tattle on them.”
The practice was not continued. Don’t know if they do it now or not, but if I were a betting man, I’d say that the same people late back then are likely to be late today — whether or not they were tattled upon and received an ensuing “observation” or “correction.”
(Constant lateness can be a sign of rebellion — or a symptom of having multiple kids in need of shoes to re-tie, last minute diaper changes, hairbows, and barrettes!)
December 1st, 2009 at 8:33 am
Nickname,
Wow – ushers who take attendance and report “tardies” to the authorities?
It occurs to me that life in a Sovereign Grace church must be stressful. Maybe not overtly stressful, but stressful on some subconscious level, where there’s that nagging feeling that something isn’t quite right.
I mean, the very definition of “grace” is overlooking the wrong that someone does. Yet so much of what SGM seems to be all about is honing in on the wrongs – the mistakes, the bad habits, the sins. The funny thing is that the typical church-going believer – especially one who has exhibited enough seriousness about his Christian life that he’s committed himself to a church like SGM – will usually have cleaned up his life enough so that he’s no longer engaging (if he ever did engage) in the more blatant sins like lying, cheating, stealing, sexual immorality, drunkenness, or even something like swearing. The typical “serious” Christian (and I’d say that SGM rarely appeals to any other type) has, through the grace of God, already cleaned up his act in those areas.
Yet SGM is way more hyper-focused on “rooting out” sin (as if such a thing were possible) than the average “normal” church. So what’s left to do? It seems to me that people just get pickier and pickier over each other, where leaders hone in on something as innocuous as getting late to church and then attach all sorts of deeper spiritual significance (like the possibility that the tardiness is a symptom of rebellion) to it.
On the one hand, I can see how some people might think that such constant watchfulness from those around them would help them to grow. If your small-group leader comes to you with an “observation” about your habitual lateness, and if you care about what he thinks (and what your pastors think), you’ll probably make an extra effort to avoid the tardiness. And maybe – if getting late to church is really about something sinful like “rebellion” – you’ll attempt to deal with that.
BUT…
Often, chronic lateness is merely a matter of having an inaccurate concept of time and how long it takes to do certain things. It can’t be very helpful to have the “sin” label slapped on to something like that.
It strikes me that such watchfulness is far more likely to cause people to just get paranoid about outward appearances.
I know that Brent Detwiler has detached himself (or been detached) from SGM now. But he was a significant force in the organization for many years, and one teaching that he did – which several people have mentioned here – was about how having a junk drawer was a sign of a lack of integrity. Can you imagine?
Again, like I said, I know that Brent is no longer a leader in SGM these days. But he was enabled and encouraged to give these sorts of teachings because – I believe – this is one of the huge underlying assumptions of SGM’s approach to the Christian life: that anything that falls short perfection is symbolic of some sort of sin, which then needs to be attacked and dealt with in order to please the Lord and (as CJ wrote in his Humility book) “attract more of God’s grace.”
Another underlying assumption – that works in tandem with honing in on the spiritual symbolism of something like having a junk drawer – is that the average Christian is so stupid and so oblivious to his shortcomings that he needs others to point them out. So this leads to a culture where people are trained to beam an ever-stronger magnifying glass on the little things that need fixing. Things like tardiness and junk drawers.
The natural result of such sin-sniffing is going to be a church where everyone is constantly thinking about the negative, about what NOT to do.
I think that’s sort of the opposite of what the Bible tells Christians to do, in terms of supporting each other.
Rather than honing in on what is WRONG, and then magnifying every little short-coming to reflect some larger sinful attitude or thought process, Scripture would instruct us to encourage one another and spur each other on to good works. Directing our attention and our energy toward finding good things to do is very different than being nagged by a constant pressure to avoid bad things.
And, like I said, the irony about all of this is that a continual awareness of sins and shortcomings – our own, or those of others – is the exact opposite of GRACE.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:53 am
Kris — the “constant lateness can be a sign of rebellion” comment was something that did NOT come from SGM — a quote from a preacher elsewhere — so I don’t want to infer that they ever said that if they didn’t.
I’m glad you gave the source (Brent Detwiler) of the “junk drawer” thing — I’d heard that tossed around, but never knew where it came from. Around 20-25 years ago, Gordon McDonald wrote a book with a title that may have been “Ordering Your Private World” — the premise was something like “how can you have order in your spiritual life if your physical surroundings are a mess?” It was a good book, written before McDonald stepped down from being head of Intervarsity.
But those kinds of directives do not take into account that all individuals are not hardwired to be neat freaks — and that being a neat freak can also be a sinful obsession. Some people have an obsession for being “on time”. Others just have habits of being neat and on time. There’s a huge spectrum — and sometimes the working out of such things might be sinful, and other times it’s just LIFE — which, we have ABUNDANTLY!
The hiding of individual personality traits results in “plastic faces.” A woman with a bright, bubbly, loud personality can easily be seen as “unsubmissive”, so a woman with a much quieter personality seems to be spiritually superior. It’s not true. Whew, don’t get me started….
The spectrum idea also applies to the mental health discussion. Often, when folks have mental issues, it’s hard to tell where sin ends and sickness begins. Recently, a counselor friend from the reformed perspective mentioned that they’ve begun to re-think — and realize, hey, if physical body ailments are affected by hormone imbalances, chemical imbalances, etc — it stands to reason that the brain can also be so affected by same.
Grace.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:59 pm
What would I do without a junk drawer, physically and symbolically? I think that allowing for a junk drawer shows that it’s OK to have messes in life that you’ll be able to clean up eventually. It’s better than letting everything hang out all over the place and messing everyone else up too. The junk drawer is the safe place to do that. It keeps it somewhat contained while you’re working it out. Not everything has to be perfect and in place at the same time, spiritually speaking either. Grace, grace, much grace.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Question for those still in — Do you find it difficult to see these red flags and not want to run out the door? I see these things and want to shake people awake! I am also having a hard time trusting — especially those that are still obviously sold out to the SGM way.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:25 pm
SueBee, YES I have felt exactly the same way. For a few years I felt uneasy and wanted to shake people awake when I felt like they were just blindly following… Then I had the urge to run out the door for about 9 months before we eventually left. It was and still is so hard to see people I love so much blinded and not utilizing the discernment that God has given us through our minds and the Holy Spirit.
To leave or not to leave can sometimes be VERY complicated.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:34 pm
SueBee – Sometimes… It can be hard when I remember the things in my past and when I hear of churches currently where grace is not being extended or taught or where people are being hurt by their pastors because of pastoral arrogance or fear. I really do think sometimes it’s fear – fear of man which relates to pride or fear even for the person because THEY see such a “big sin” and are concerned. And that isn’t trusting God and still has a lot of pride because unless it’s black and white in the bible (or red ;-)) then it’s a “disputable matter” and they can trust God can lead that person in a direction different that they (pastors) might see fit.
But what keeps me where I am?? mostly it’s the relationships and the fact that I trust MY pastors – I might not fully trust any pastor in SGM, but I trust mine. I have had many doubts and questions recently – mostly when my pastor says a phrase or illustration that reminds me of “the old days” and i get fearful that maybe they aren’t trustworthy. but then i remember reality – what i have seen and heard and felt in this church and i remember that i was 100% NOT going towards GCC when God lef me there. He specifically told me that apart from all of the things I DONT agree with or all of the questions I had that I was supposed to be at Grace. and I saw more fruit and change and peace and joy in the first 3 months at grace that the last 10 years at fairfax.
my pastors and cg leaders are always open to questions or concerns or “i dont agree with that” and they are ok with that. we have people in our church who dont believe in the gifts or don’t believe in predestination or whatever… and they are full active members – children’s ministry teachers
and it’s ok to disagree and to have different viewpoints.
i am rambling here, but that is why i stay. lately i have felt a strong pull to move to a new church, but as far as i know it’s a pull to plant an SGM church not leave the ministry.
and who knows…it might be PMS that makes me want to leave. there are no concrete reasons. 
