Awhile back, I put up a post about the many ways the churches of Sovereign Grace Ministries differ from the rest of “normal” Reformed/Evangelical Christian churches. #33 and #34 on the list were as follows:
33. In “normal” Christianity, if one ponders leaving one’s church, one’s first reaction is not FEAR.
34. Similarly, in “normal” Christianity, if one decides that one needs to leave one’s church, one does NOT need an “exit strategy” in order to avoid being talked about, disciplined, black-listed, or otherwise made to feel bad.
Lately, as I’ve been carrying on some interesting email conversations with a couple of different individuals who have written to discuss their exit strategies, I’ve been thinking more about this particular SGM abnormality.
Something suddenly hit me that I’d never thought of before…a way to explain why the whole “leaving well” thing can seem so strange and cult-like and abnormal to outsiders.
And that is, if you’ve decided to leave an organization, then you no longer need to follow the organization’s rules and procedures. The organization no longer gets to set the terms for what you do. The organization no longer has any authority over you.
I think that’s what people (outsiders) don’t understand about the seeming drive to seek one’s pastor’s permission to leave SGM. Or even, to seek one’s pastor’s approval of one’s decision to leave. If you’ve become convinced that you no longer want the organization ruling over you, and that they have no authority to do so, then…they truly don’t have authority, and you don’t need to follow their rules.
So the whole “leave well” thing is weird. It’s like SGM teaches its members that the organization retains control over them even if they have become convinced that God Himself is leading them to leave.
Of course, there’s really no reason to be so surprised. This thinking is, after all, spelled out right there in the membership covenant, where members sign off on the idea that their pastors will always have the last word on discipline matters – to the point where they can contact your future non-SGM church to poison your new pastor’s thinking and share all about what they think you did wrong. Here is the statement, which you can find in Appendix C of Covenant Life Church’s Starting Points manual (available here for download):
If a member leaves the church while he is under the scrutiny of the disciplinary process or while a censure against him is still in effect, and if the leadership team learns that he is attending another church, the team may inform that church that the person is currently under church discipline and may ask that church to encourage the accused to repent of his sin and to be restored to the Lord and to any people whom he has offended.
Yes, finding yourself worrying about making sure your soon-to-be-former pastor will approve of the manner in which you leave, and – more importantly – believing that this pastor is the one who gets to define what ”leaving well” looks like…well, some people may get mad at me for saying so, but this is one of those things that makes SGM seem more like an aberrant group than a “normal” Christian church.
My dear young brother/sister, could you please clarify?I can't tell, did you mean that sgm is too... 
March 16th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Jedi. I am so sorry about the pain that you are feeling. And the confusion. Normal life is hard enough, leaving enough confusion without adding to the confusion and pain of something such as a church that is suppose to be safe, that is suppose to be a sanctuary and then to find out that it isn’t. That in some cases it is actually more dangerous that “outside” the church. I recently left a church that I had been at for all of my life (58 years), it has been painful. But the weird thing is that it has also been freeing. I can’t get over in fact how it is so freeing that I feel a lightness surrounding me (know that sounds like nonsense but it is what happened to me). Without telling you to leave the church, for that is not up to me to do, but could you perhaps take a break from it to clear your head? Perhaps just visit some other churches in your area for awhile and gather your thoughts? Then you will know more of how to proceed and will feel more able to do what you feel that will be right for you and your family.
March 18th, 2010 at 6:59 am
Thank you all for this incredible help! I am still finding my way through all these tabs and drinking in all this life. I have tried to attend other churches. I have no peace, because I think something should be done. I cant explain that exactly right now. I guess also because I am still a member of SGM and have been for many (25yrs) I am still experiencing alot of what is being talked about here. I am still afraid to speak about the things that are so freely discussed here. I am still afraid someone may recognize who I am by my examples. I have been spending much time reading and praying. I want to find a way to help; not only myself right now but my sons and their friends, some who are still here and some who have left and are wandering, hurt and angry. The many faces of the people that I know who are staying because they have been here for so long. The fear they have and for that reason, their inability to talk about anything that sounds negative or slanders the pastors or their leadership, because for so long we have been told the pastors “represent God” and we are ultimately then slandering God. I am very angry. (I know all the verses on anger). I have forgiven many people who have hurt me over the years. I have had much grief and much sadness in my life. I have forgiven and I have been able to move on. God alone has made this possible.., even when those who deliberately hurt me did not ask for forgiveness from me, and as far as I am aware, were not even sorry for what they had done to me. I forgave them all because God told me to… and for my own peace. This is DIFFERENT. This is an Ongoing problem! People are being hurt all the time, every day. I am angry because I have been manipulated and lied to. I want to leave because I am unable to wear the mask I used to wear and it is very hard to listen on Sundays and even be a part of it… or respond to the many many many wrong things that are said to me when I am there and interact with people. I am exhausted trying to find the sin that is deeper than pride…I am exhausted living up to “required committment” to show I am a true believer. But I dont want to just leave. Something is missing and I cant just leave. I want an apology from them. My sons should have an apology from them. I am on a mission and I believe God is truly with me on this. I dont want to hurt or slander anyone, I dont want to hear malicious things said about people in anger. I think something should be done. My soul is hungry and I do not want to be fed aarogant, self exaulting, food any longer. I pray something happens in the “family meeting” that will shed some hope/light on their plans to correct these things. I am not afraid to stand up and ask important questions! I have much to read about here, pray about and learn. “He will temper the winds of the Shorn lamb”.I know He will take care of me. This SECRET society needs a Light from Gods Holy Face! Come Lord Jesus.
If my son reads this….You Rock and you are Right!……..
March 18th, 2010 at 8:49 am
Jedi, I understand your words. I will be praying for wisdom for you. And healing for your whole family.
Hugs,
Stunned
March 18th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Jedi, I want to add my welcome and whatever comfort we can offer. And I know what you mean about fear. When we (Defender and I) wrote our story (April 2009) we hinted at initials, and locations but now we don’t mind, or don’t care, as courage has grown and God’s Light is shining brightly. And about visiting other congregations… Why is it that we feel dishonest? We’re all part of the Body of Jesus Christ! Yet it lingers with me, I admit. (We’re planted in another congregation now and I still wonder why would I visit some other place?)
I’ve offered it before but we have an email address we’ll give out if you want it – Defended1@gmail.com It’s safe, I promise.
March 19th, 2010 at 11:17 am
thankyou all.
I want to see what happens in this next family meeting. I want to see what they say and if I get an opportunity to ask questions or if they already have a question and answer set up…thanks again
Defended, I do have your email address thank you. When you say you are in another congregation.. Im not sure what you mean when you say you are feeling dishonest? Did you attend a SGM church? I will go to read your story (April 2009). Is it in SGM Refuge? I guess right now I am yes, afraid to give out my email address..but I appreciate it very much. The more I read and talk about the things going on, the more I think I will have to give up any thoughts or hopes of an apology or even a verbalized sadness from these men. It is so difficult to get any answers. I was told if I leave SGM (my church) I will be lost, unless I go do another SGM church. I know a small group of my friends that want to leave but they dont know where to go. After being here for all these years it is very hard to leave. They will probably follow their children because most of their children are now leaving. I do admit some of the close friends I have even tell me that I have to evaluate my motives and if I am sinning because of self sufficiency and arogance thinking i know what is best. I dont know how to follow men who dont tell me where they are going, why they are going, or when they are going…
March 19th, 2010 at 11:21 am
In order to clarify,, the secret society I was referring to in a previous post is the SGM church I am attending at the present time, not this site,
March 19th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Jedi-
All those things your friends are telling you (arrogance, self sufficiency, etc…) will only keep you in this limbo.
What’s the worse that could happen if you leave and then realize that you should have stayed in SG? You could always go back and tell them that they were right and that your back for good, right?
But what if they’re wrong….? In healthy churches, people leave and sometimes come back without the fear of losing relationships. The fact that you and a group of friends are so distraught about just leaving to check out another church is a big indicator that you are not in a healthy church.
Just my 2 cents, of course, I’ll be praying for you guys and for your next step.
peace to you-m
March 19th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Jedi –
Ah, my heart goes out to you. We recently left an SGM church we attended only briefly, but even then, in that short amount of time, something incredibly bizarre and hurtful happened.
/I think I will have to give up any thoughts or hopes of an apology or even a verbalized sadness from these men/
Yes. I know exactly how you feel. You want some kind of verbalized sadness and when you don’t receive it, you feel that you simply ….. do not matter.
It affects my relationship with God because it makes me wonder if I don’t matter to him as well. Intellectually, I know that’s wrong. Emotionally, not so much.
My heart and prayers go out to you, Jedi.
March 19th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
I wish I could say who I am, and what happened to me. Ususally I only post the effects and after shock of Sovereign Grace Ministries.
But it really is weird, when you think about it, how twisted this church and its “Sound Doctrine” is, I KNOW for a fact, as my mom usta say…this is only the tip of the ice burg.
March 19th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Renee #108 wrote “I think I will have to give up any thoughts or hopes of an apology or even a verbalized sadness from these men”.
Yes, give it up. Apologies or expressions of sadness like you refer to seem to be uncommon in men and women within SG. To do so would imply (a) that they had done something wrong and/or (b) you were in the right. Their view is that those of us who depart are defective.
If I remember correctly you attended a church in the West and your chances of an apology from the apostle out there are close to zero. Three things you are not likely to hear out there are (1) “I was wrong and I am sorry”; (2) “I have sinned against you and ask for your forgiveness”; (3) “Let me get this check”.
There was a staff person at my exSGc that acknowledged offending/sinning against me to my wife in writing. The same staff member never said a word to me and apparently was content to let conflict go unresolved. In like manner the pastor acknowledged to (a leadership team member) that he had not shown care and pastoral concern for me while I was on staff and after I resigned and was still a member. He, too, apparently was content to let conflict go unresolved.
SGM is like that old Elton John tune – Sorry truly does seem to be the hardest word!
Sad, so sad,
Former SG Pastor
March 19th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Sorry; Renee was quoting Jedi #105. My bad!
March 19th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
Jedi, email me/us at the address above anytime. I would never make someone else’s email address known.
Also, let me explain my comment about feeling dishonest – I was trying to say that right now I would like to visit other congregations, besides the one we’re committed to right now. We’ve been gone from SGM for 6yrs now, I think. But the idea of looking around or visiting someplace new still lingers as some sort of disloyalty to our current congregation. Does that help explain?
One tip – there are lots of good churches that meet on Saturday nights! You might not even have to skip your SGM gathering if you don’t want to!
and other idea……
Can I suggest that if you do go someplace sometime that you do NOT look for doctrine, but maybe the goal could be, or might be to identify people who ENJOY Jesus and their wonderful salvation and Savior?! That is a fun thing to look for and doesn’t cause a conflict of interest in identifying acceptable doctrine. Just people who love Jesus.
This is a brainstorm, not something I’ve spent time preparing for you or anyone. But I hope it is an idea to look at visiting outside of SGM in a different light.
March 20th, 2010 at 12:33 am
FSGP –
That’s okay! Your words ring true for me too.
March 20th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Pastor Former,
We might be speaking of the same congregation, or similar, but it really amazed me how people would let conflict go without resolution! And then, if someone did make some effort it would always wait until the next “meeting” – nobody called and met privately! So when we were meeting every 3-4 wks with KJ, I couldn’t help but wonder, with how angry he was at us, was he (or anyone else) taking communion during this unresolved time? While harboring such (imaginary) ill against us? Amazing. What about DH and his crew while persecuting Noel’s family? Communion? or no? This speaks of a lack of the fear of the Lord to me, but that’s just my way of thinking.
I know that in SGM the Lord’s prayer isn’t prayed out loud very much but I would wonder, does anyone in leadership pray it? “Forgive me of my sin as I forgive others?” just makes me wonder.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Defended -
As I read what you and Defender write I see similarities in my SG experience and am certain that we have had the displeasure of dealing with some of the same abusers. Yes, I found it unbelievable that SG leaders, pastors, and staff members could carry on public activities of Christendom (“ministry”, preaching, communion, leading worship, etc) while engaging in known sin and conflict. It was also unbelievable when leaders in the church knew what was going on and allowed the offenders to continue without correction or rebuke.
I found it unbelievable; my wife found it disgusting. And that was why we finally left. The glaring disparity between what was preached/taught versus what was practiced and lived was too much.
Glad to be out,
Former SG Pastor
March 24th, 2010 at 8:08 am
Anyone who is still in SGM needs to just leave. Those false hypocritical shepherds have no real authority over you – it’s all self-appointed, un-Scriptural garbage. Satan is using them to keep you in bondage. Get out of there as quick as you can and let your Defender – Jesus Christ sort it all out for you. Their threats are empty anyway and if they try to follow you at another church, turn it back on them. Most other churches “know” the cult-like operations that SGM employ and if they’re a church worth going to, they’ll help you break free however they can. As long as you submit under SGM covering, Satan is going to reek havoc on your mind. When you leave and renounce them – you will see how much clearer you think, pray, live, have joy – everything will improve. SGM is a cult masquerading as a church. The more people that leave and expose it for what it is, the more God will get glory and His people will be set free!!! Get out of the hell-hole. To God be all glory for setting me and my family free ten years ago!!!!
March 25th, 2010 at 12:06 am
Renee #108 wrote “I think I will have to give up any thoughts or hopes of an apology or even a verbalized sadness from these men”.
There was a great country song out a few years ago called “The Truth About Men” by Tracy Byrd –(if you were in an SGM church it was probabaly a sin to listen to it)… but how well it applies.
“We ain’t wrong — we ain’t sorry — and it’s prob’bly gonna happen again.”
When it was proven that we were not wrong in a particular SGM incident, I thought surely that the pastor would come running with the kind of acknowledgment or apology that would match his “transparent worst sinner” image. Didn’t happen. Ain’t gonna. He ain’t wrong — he ain’t sorry — and I guarantee you it happened again and again. These guys could write themselves a happy ending, but pride and arrogance deceives them into thinking that their authority is the most important face to save.