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“SGMnot’s” Story

[Kris says:  The following was submitted by "SGMnot":]

In 1993 our daughter was sexually molested by the fourteen year old son of a close family friend from CLC, while he was babysitting for us. It was a week before her 3rd birthday. [This was about 6 years after exCLCer’s case]  I thank God I had taught our daughter what “good touch, bad touch” is, so she could tell us and possibly protect herself or others from sex abuse. The morning after this happened she came into our bedroom and told us. We were in shock, but for her sake remained calm, and asked her a few questions to verify. [Excuse my bluntness] He had taken off both of their pants and underwear, laid on top of her, fondled her, and French-kissed her. He stopped at this point and did not penetrate her. Her reaction at the time of the attack was to not move or cry out–she was in complete terror. We immediately called the police. We knew it was the law to report any sexual abuse committed against a minor. 

The first thing out of the pastor’s mouth, when we called him was, “Don’t call the police.” When we told him we already had, he communicated that these “things” should be handled in the church, and definitely made us to feel that he was displeased with us going outside the church to the secular authorities for this crime! The pastor called the father and the boy did confess that morning, after denying it repeatedly. The pastor immediately got on the phone with the police trying to arrange for the family to be able to turn the boy into police, rather than a police car to come to their house and embarrass them. From that point on, we felt that to the pastors, this crisis was all about the perpetrator and his family, to keep his identity secret and rally around him and his family, caring for THEM and counseling them as they navigated through the secular legal system and the crisis WE had caused by turning him in. 

We did have one meeting, within a couple of days of the abuse, with the pastor and his wife. They commiserated with us. We felt the gist of the meeting was “yes, this is terrible, it is OK for us to be angry and hurt for a few days or weeks, but after that you need to forgive and forget”! We were told not to tell our care group or anyone. And not talk to the boy and his family. Besides a brief phone call or two after all of this and the eventual “reconciliation” meeting, 6 months later, with that family and the pastor, we had NO counseling or follow-up care for us or our daughter. We had several close family members in CLC and we had close friends who LIVED with us at this time and we couldn’t even tell them! Essentially, we were on our own with all the deep grief, anger, and feelings of violation. We walked through this horrible crisis completely alone, with close family and friends and our care group all around us, having NO idea what we were going through!! God alone was our refuge and we had each other. 

A week or so after the molestation, one of the other pastors called and shared how sorry he was for what we were going through and then asked me to write a letter of leniency, so that this boy would not go to jail and just get counseling [exactly what happened to exCLCer’s mom]. I agreed, mostly because he was only 14 and it was a first offense. At the time, I was extremely vulnerable with the grief of what had happened to our daughter and what this pastor said meant a lot to me, but looking back now I feel manipulated by his words to make sure that I wrote that letter. What if I had refused? [like exCLCer’s mom] Would we have been excommunicated? 

We did not know and could not find out any details from the perpetrator on the molestation, even through the pastor, until the meeting 6 months later. In other words, we did not know if there had been any penetration or how much fondling there had been—it was torture for me as mom and as a woman to not know. I feel that my emotional needs were given “backseat” status to the other family’s privacy and care. We were not equipped by appropriate psychological counseling or advice on how to parent a victim of sexual abuse. Our daughter struggled as a little 3 year old to forgive this teenager’s crime against her. She had nightmares for months afterwards. Many months later, we went for prayer to this pastor and another, and they did pray for her, but they said the nightmares “might” not be from the sexual molestation, directly minimizing my concerns, even though nightmares are a known effect of sexual abuse! 

This is not over. She is now 21 and is a committed Christian, by God’s grace.  BUT she STILL has trouble sleeping alone. She STILL has had seasons of night terrors. She also has other EMOTIONAL SCARS directly related to the molestation and has pursued psychological counseling, now as an adult. Although, we have forgiven and prayed for this boy, now an adult member of CLC, last I heard, the results of his crime on our daughter may be a lifelong struggle for her to overcome!  

I share this with my heart breaking: for her, for us, and for all those others who have been traumatized by the sex abuse cases mishandled by SGM. And I wanted to share our story so that NO ONE from SGM could use our “case” as a supposed “well-handled” pastoral victory, since we mostly cooperated with their advice. AND I wanted everyone to know that the serious effects of any sexual molestation at any age are devastating to the victim and their family for many years. It doesn’t just “go away” after forgiving!  

We were in CLC for over 20 years and served as CGLs for over 5 years and only left a few years ago. We feel that “going public” with this story, that has been a secret sex abuse case in CLC, will perhaps help others to come forward with any other cases. We have not personally confronted the pastors about this, but after hearing exCLCer family’s HORRIFIC treatment by CLC, we felt that they do not deserve that respect. 

374 comments to “SGMnot’s” Story

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  1. NLR
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    I meant to say in #95 that these WERE NOT conclusions pulled from my back pocket… Ha! :wink:

  2. A Kindred Spirit
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    I am not sure how much it is the culture that fosters the abusive behavior in the first place, certainly sexual abuse takes place in every human social group in existence (I’m not saying it doesn’t either, I just don’t know). But the authoritarian and patriarchal system certainly does protect and enable abusers, giving them a free hand they might not have otherwise.

    Griefofwisdom,

    My husband and I have said for years that these systems actually attract such people. We’ve observed it time and time again, and it’s not just SGM. I dare say that there are SGMers that are surprised themselves by the large numbers of such folks within their churches. They haven’t put two and two together yet.

  3. Lauren
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Seconding Patti’s applause: “SO, a GIANT :clap To those of you who have never been abused but want to see justice and are willing to ‘push the envelope’.”

    Patti, some of the strongest people I know are people who have gone through abuse, done the hard work of therapy and come out on the other side through God’s provision.

  4. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Note to SGM defenders:

    No matter how much you trust your pastors right now, do not sign anything. Ever. Not a membership covenant, any agreement or even anything that looks innocent. If you must sign to be a member, then do not join. If you have signed something then write them and ask it be retracted and sent it certified.

    After this scandal with CJ, things are going to get tighter at the top but you probably won’t see it for a quite a while. But more focus will be on managing the message and image of SGM. Even while they play their fake repentance games with stacked panels and affirmations from the Reformed big dogs. So, it will look more open for quite a while.

    Please, do not enter into any agreements. Even verbal. I know you trust them right now but you must be careful for the protection of your family.

    Do not sign anything. Nothing. Let your yes be yes and you no be no. Stop trusting humans for the things of Christ.

    And above all, think long and hard before you support this system with your hard earned money. Do you realize that by paying them, you have helped predators?

  5. A Friend
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    @Matt: “A Friend, So what do you think about the SGM pastor who immediately told them NOT to call the police?”

    Concerning your specific question, I think I would prefer to hear what the pastor has to say first, since I’m not familiar with that specific circumstance. (i.e. in Proverbs, a person can sound right until another states his case) But your question brings up the larger question, what is a godly response in a case of molestation. What if it was my daughter? How would I handle the situation if I were in SGMnot’s shoes? (I’m not saying in this that SGMnot handled things wrongly – they may have handled everything well.) I probably would handle it in the following way:

    1) I would first go to the parents of the son and confront them. If confirmed, or if I was dissatisfied with the answer, I would express that and say that if I didn’t get a satisfactory answer, I would go to both the pastors and authorities. I would give them a brief time to respond satisfactorily.

    2) If no satisfactory response was provided, I would follow through and call both the pastors and authorities. If I did get a satisfactory response and there was understanding and the parents showed they were willing to discipline/restrain their son, I might wait to go to authorities, but I would still definitely go to the pastors.

    I would take this course because (a) parents are the front-line of discipline for a child according to scripture, and it’s my responsibility to go to them. Notice that I didn’t say that I would go to the teenager first – the teenager is under the parents authority. (b) I wouldn’t hesitate to go to authorities if there was an unsatisfactory response because scripture shows us that government is here for our protection (e.g. Rom 13, etc.) and molestation is a protection-requiring situation. (c) I would also go to the pastors because both families would be under their leadership and they must be made aware of the situation and be ready to provide help to both families.

    Matt, hope that helps.

  6. Lauren
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Adding two cents to Matt’s post advising SGMers not to sign anything, I wouldn’t put my kid out of sight in their nursery or church programs either.

    And seconding Matt here: “And above all, think long and hard before you support this system with your hard earned money. Do you realize that by paying them, you have helped predators?”

  7. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    “We don’t even have to take time away from the discussion to prove that the weird, extreme teachings on guy/girl relationships, courtship, modesty, sex, etc. have messed up a couple of generations of Christian kids. That’s all over the internet.”

    You got it Kindred. It plays right into the power position of predators. It says, my gender is elevated over the other. It is just a girl, after all.

    That is why pedophiles target children. And with SGM you have the whole gender focus (to a salvic level) with specific roles for all things in life. The message is clear: Males are in charge. Women follow males. Males come first, women second. children third

  8. A Kindred Spirit
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    some of the strongest people I know are people who have gone through abuse, done the hard work of therapy and come out on the other side through God’s provision.

    THAT’S A FACT!!!

    I thank God for the mighty restoration work I’ve seen in people’s lives!

  9. Patti
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Awwww..I just went to my ‘happy place’ to lower my BP. And it was remembering this past weekend at the CBEinternational conference.
    I had never in my life been in a group of devoted Christian men and women where I felt complete peace and safety. There was absolutely zero sense of competition. And the few that I did sense something from? I later found out they were still deciding what they believed. The utmost respect between the genders was so refreshing. CBMW would lead you to believe the conference would look like a bunch of radical gay feminists and emasculated men who can’t see a distinction between male/female. Not so, just the
    opposite! CBMW and CJ are guilty of slandering Christian egalitarians. They are NOT a peril to the gospel.

  10. Phoenix
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    A Friend,
    OK, here’s another question. If your daughter was molested would you take her to a doctor? Would you have her checked for physical harm or even an STD? If you wouldn’t you are an irresponsible parent.

    And, would you tell the doctor what happened? Of course, because how could the doctor treat the child otherwise? Well, A Friend, doctors are mandatory reporters, as are nurses.

    So if you are “scripturally” going to avoid going to the police then you must also deny your child medical care. And you are “scripturally” going to allow a predator to predate again on someone else’s child.

    Save the scripture quotes. You are even now complicit in abuse.

  11. Lauren
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    A Friend said, “If no satisfactory response was provided, I would follow through and call both the pastors and authorities. If I did get a satisfactory response and there was understanding and the parents showed they were willing to discipline/restrain their son, I might wait to go to authorities, but I would still definitely go to the pastors.”

    What are you talking about? Are you saying that if a teenager penetrated your 3-year-old and his parents agreed to discipline/restrain him, you might “wait” before going to authorities?

    Surely, I’m misunderstanding.

    If you meant to say that, it might help you to check this site out and delve into more Scripture:
    http://coveringandauthority.com/

  12. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    A friend,

    Wrong. You call the authorities FIRST. Period. Even touching a little child in a bad way is serious stuff and must be reported.

    You just took the criminal law into your own hands. Way to go. But I knew I would get a long gobblygook sgmese answer.

    To others:

    Sounds so reasoned and professional, doesn’t it guys? But it isn’t. You call the authorities for an investigation FIRST because unless you are a professional in such things, you have no idea what you are doing. In fact, you could do a lot of damage doing it YOUR way.

    Friends, this is why the pagans get this right. This was not between believers.

    Believers don’t rape little girls.

  13. A Kindred Spirit
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Isn’t God’s Word amazing?

    If we simply followed the “one anothering” verses there would be no need for blogs and therapy and support groups for those abused.

    How sad that such exists as a result of the church.

  14. Patti
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Lauren,
    Yes, you are right and I have been commended for being strong and I have done lots of help and council myself now. What I wasn’t prepared for however, was the thought of my own daughter who has never experienced any of this type of abuse or gender inequality to fall in love with an SGM lifer while away on the East coast at college. That is what makes me weak. I have to keep trying not to worry about the future and my future grandchildren. But then when I don’t worry about that I get afraid I won’t be as vigilant. Anyway, this is just hard on me right now and I do have to keep my stress down since I just had a coronary stent in April and my BP keeps spiking. So I am depending on the survivors right now. I love you all. Sure can’t wait to fellowship in heaven someday or before if it were ever to work out.

  15. Willie
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    NLR,

    Sadly, in this world we do not get to choose the way that people come at us. We only get to choose our response. I can say anything I want to anybody I want. I can come at you anyway I want to and call you ignorant if I want to. That is the freedom that I have in this country. Don’t tell me how to express that freedom. You are not God and therefore do not control me in anyway.

    I have attended CLC for 32 years and was 14 when this other 14 year old molested the 3 year old. The teaching that I was receiving in NO WAY can be characterized by the claims that you make. Did you attend CLC 18 years ago? NO. Have you listened to all of the messages from 18 years ago? NO. Have you read all of the transcripts? NO. What are the specific sexist teachings? Be specific. Layout for us all the specific teaching that turned this normal 14 year old into a molesting monster. I want to know exactly what, “theology taught by your leaders is inherently sexist.” Give me the details, the facts, the exacts. You must know them all since you have declared the theology sexist all the way around. What are the sexist tenants? Expound point by point based on you extensive knowledge and then prove specifically that each one of these sexist theology points caused the molesters to be created. I called you ignorant for a reason. I did not say you were stupid or lacked intelligence. I said ignorant because you DO NOT know all the fasts or causes, but you speak like you do. Painting with a broad brush is dangerous my friend.

    So the teaching that you have not listened is, as you state, “inherently sexist ALL THE WAY AROUND, BUDDY!” Really? You know this for a fact? You have examined ALL THE TEACHING ALL THE WAY AROUND? Give me a break! You are kidding yourself if you claim to know the motives of a 14 your old boy from 18 years ago. You are ignorant for on so many of the details. Do you know the past history of the child? NO. Do you know the exact teaching that he heard that made his molest? NO. Do you know how long the child had been attending CLC before the event happened? NO. You just don’t know. But that does not stop you from spewing forth your potentially damaging opinion.

    You stated, “stringent teaching on sexuality that represses healthy expression of sexuality within SGM IS ONE PROBLEM AND AN OBVIOUS REASON why many of these young men are assaulting little children.” Prove it. You cannot make a claim like that without proof, facts correlative data, analysis from experts studying each individual case, and interviews with offenders. You know the reasons why this child choose to molest? You have talked with him and he confessed that CJ’s teaching made him do it? Get over yourself. You are NOT that expert and the statements that you make are speculative at best. If you want people to respect the blogs and take the things that people say seriously you need to provide actually proof not just throw out theories that you cannot prove.

  16. Lauren
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    I hear you Patti and empathizing with your pain in this. I’ll pray for your daughter and the whole situation.

  17. A Friend
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    @Phoenix: Yes, I would have a doctor check my daughter. Sorry I forgot that.

    @Matt: A quick question – Are you a parent?

  18. Stunned
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    80sSGM, I am so terribly sorry to hear what happened to your son. I hope he has had lots of help by people who are trained to help victims of abuse. I hope you have also gotten some help to deal with all this sickness.

    Stunned

  19. A Kindred Spirit
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    SGMnot,

    Somewhere a while back you were talking “hindsight and 20/20 stuff.”

    I hope that you’re not beating yourself up.

    If you are, those feelings are coming straight from the pit of hell, dear sister. Don’t entertain them for a second.

    Praying for you today – you’re a good mother, and you were a good mommie then, too. :)

  20. WaitingPatiently
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    First, an observation. The stories of abuse are indeed concerning and painful. But we must always keep instaces of pain in the wider context: in light of our sin, even the pain we go through is much better than we deserve…so we can rejoice even in the midst of pain.

    Condemned No More – Amazingly, it was this exact thought (almost identical) to what CJ preached in a message about 10 years ago and I’ve had no respect for him ever since. These are the trite biblical answers that we the abused are given and must accept and this is why MOST Pastoral staff are NOT trained to handle these types of situations. They don’t know anything other than Biblicalisms. I know many Christians mean well but there are so many wrong things to say to try to help people. “Better than I deserve” is definitely not one of them. The whole sinward, puritan focus is one of the huge things that needs to change SGM-wide.

    SGMnot – my heart grieves for your family and daughter, as it does the many other stories that have been surfacing.

  21. Lauren
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Chill, Willie. This discussion is not about one single incident of child molestation. It is about the pattern of abuse cases which are described by many people on this site, some of which went to court and are documented.

    You don’t grasp the scope of what’s happening yet.

  22. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    “You know the reasons why this child choose to molest?”

    Willie, are you saying you expect the 14 year old to be able to articulate why he molested the 3 yr?

    A friend of mine has interviewed pedophiles in a prison and they could not articulate why they did it…over and over and over.

    You really need to get studied up on this issue. What happened in the RCC system is a good place to start.

    Predators are about power. And they choose their victims accordingly. They have no respect or care for their victims at all. And they choose them for what is convenient and in order of their importance in their minds.

    It is insidious that little kids are thought of that way by not only the predator but the sgm pastor in how he responded. The pastor reinforced the message that the teen boy was more important by the way he blew it off as experimentation and did not want the parents to call the police.

    I wish we could out the sgm pastor. He needs to get out of ministry. At least report him to CPS so they know he is a predator protector.

    I do not fool around this stuff, friends. You take this stuff to the mattrasses as they said in the Godfather. :word

  23. Stunned
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Lauren,

    Thanks for that new stat info.

    I wish it weren’t so! Tragic.

    Stunned

    PS. All those that want to come on here and say that it is sin to be angry about anything, are YOU angry yet? If you’re not, check yourself into inpatient care immediately. You need serious help.

  24. Stunned
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    80sSGM, are the pastors involved in hiding the pedophile from people still in ministry at SGM?

  25. Stunned
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    AKS said, “I’d like to round up every pastor that’s been negligent in such cases and take them to a prison for some of the inmates to “experiment” on!!”

    I had the same thoughts this morning!

  26. A Kindred Spirit
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Patti,

    I’ve got you and your daughter covered in prayer, girl.

    Hang in there!

    God is mighty! He *IS* in control!! He loves your daughter more than you’re even capable of loving her. What you feel for her, He feels even moreso!! Don’t get yourself worked up. Trust in Him. Hold tight!

  27. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    “@Matt: A quick question – Are you a parent?”

    A Friend,

    I am not playing the sgmese game with you. Or, 20 questions so you can try to frame the discussion. I don’t play your game.

    I have read your comments and they speak for themself.

    You gotta remember, you have no credibility with me. You have made it clear on the other thread that you continue to support the sgm system where these things occured and how pastors respond to the predator and victim. In your last comment you made it clear to me, that you still do not get it.

    I simply do not think you are wise or discerning enough to offer me any insight.

  28. NLR
    August 4th, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Willie–

    You make me laugh–OUT LOUD. Like others who come in and insult people and then say that they have the freedom to, I find you laughable at best. If we wanted people to respect the blogs, we wouldn’t let glossed-over drones like you post here–but alas, here’s for equitable discussion. You said you can call people whatever you want, etc… and I’m not God, this is a free country. I like how you used God and Country to assault me. You sound like a spokesperson for Vision Forum short of wearing a top hat, toting an American flag and a picture of George Washington.

    I can say the same about you but I won’t. Not because you haven’t come across as ignorant, but because your words and views simply speak for themselves. I just refuse to waste anymore time responding to your posts. Your lack of discernment and ability to see truth go farther than I would care to “serve” you. If you want to know what I think about the teachings in your church, you can go here: http://www.christiansforbiblicalequality.org and start reading. Otherwise, I’ll let us disagree and continue on about our lives. I simply don’t see you are worth my time. You’re a character, that’s for sure. I’m sure glad I stayed 20ft away from folks like you at church, rolled my eyes and kept it moving.

  29. Ummm
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    I guess you aren’t aware that in most states you can be criminally prosecuted for failure to report a sexual crime against your child. You are considered the most important protector of your children, and authorities will come after you. Perhaps that’s a chance you’re willing to take, but why? Never mind, I know why. It’s because you do as your told. :scratch

  30. A Friend
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    @Matt, I can assure you I’m not trying to play games with you. It seems that you’re very passionate about these things, which is good. Molestation and related issues are very serious and need to be treated seriously. I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from. You make a lot of very strong statements and it seemed maybe you’re speaking either from your own experience or from the standpoint of a family member of yours that has been a victim, or something like that.

    So no, I’m not trying to play an “sgmese” game with you – whatever that means. If I can understand you better, then I can answer you in a more wise way. I answered your question above, so it’s only fair that you answer my question. :-)

  31. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    “@Phoenix: Yes, I would have a doctor check my daughter. Sorry I forgot that.”

    A Friend, Now you are in a pickle of a jam. Your sgm pastor, that you supposedly called simultaneously with the authorities is saying, ‘Don’t call the authorities’! (We have plenty of precedence to predict this reaction)

    So, you obey him because of how he taught you Hebrews 13:17.

    But now you still have a problem because the Doctor is required by law to report it.

    I suppose you could lie to the doctor in order to obey your pastor but then liars do not inherit the kingdom. So, you have to choose, disobey the pastor and go against the “clear” teaching in Hebrews 13:17 OR call the authorities, first.

    This is where it helps to have spiritual maturity. And the indwelling Holy Spirit instead of relying on your pastor or care group person to be the Holy Spirit for you.

  32. Lucy
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    @212 (#87)~ You said:

    //You are speculating to the highest degree there and inferring that SGM raises little molesters and sex offenders… That’s just wrong, unfounded, and hateful.//

    Who knows if “SGM raises little molesters and sex offenders. They DO harbor them, though. So you’re okay with that?

    Condemned No More~

    Ah, yes. “Observations” and “evidences of grace.” I was only in an SGM for 4 mind-numbing months, but I sure got sick of all that SGMese. “Evidences of grace”? Can’t stand that phrase. What? Like we’re searching for a Yeti?

    And “shedding tears of regret” doesn’t do squat for the victims. Big whoop. Spare me the crocodile tears, wieners, and DO SOMETHING REAL AND REDEMPTIVE.

    //even the pain we go through is much better than we deserve…//

    Tell that to all the molested kids. Good Lord.

  33. Guy
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    Hehe…Lucy said “wieners” 8)

  34. HighChurch
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    SGMnot…wow heartbreaking. So sorry for you and your family’s ordeal.

  35. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    “You make a lot of very strong statements and it seemed maybe you’re speaking either from your own experience or from the standpoint of a family member of yours that has been a victim, or something like that.”

    Blog readers: Here we go. This is classic. A Friend wants to make this issue about MY experiences. Therefore he can start in on how I cannot be objective because this happened to me, blah, blah, blah.
    This is all sgm’ers know. Ad hominem. It
    is how they operate and the sin sniffing is nothing but ad hominem. The last refuge of the unintelligent and non thinkers.

    I am passionate because they are innocent children whose lives are affected until the day they die. It never leaves them. You might find that sinful (knowing how sgm teaches) but it is true even with all the biblicalisms you throw out. And it takes years and years for them to deal with it.

    And you support the way the sgm pastors deal with the predator.

    You want to know what seperates the barbarians from the civilized world? How they protect the innocent and disabled of their environment. The least of these.

    SGM is rated Barbarian.

  36. LongingforHeaven
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    “These sgm pastors are pervert enablers who only care about themselves. They have innocent blood on their hands. For them to say this only says a lot about them and how dark their hearts are.” -Matt

    Amen brother! The thing is that most people don’t realize that these patterns of behavior and pastoral ‘wisdom’ isn’t just part of SGM history that they have repented over or even feel sad about. No, It is very much present in the logic of their present day practice, almost to an unbelievable extent. And not just with children either…wish I could say more.

    SGMers please protect your own children from these awful leaders who have no fear of God. They are counting on your affection for them and ties to their church ‘family’ to protect their lofty positions of honor. If you truly love these men you would seek to correct them and have God’s heart of justice and mercy in saving them from their own sins. Don’t let them damage the faith of these precious children and soil the name of Jesus. Love Him first and his word, not your pastors or church.

    “AFriend’ and ‘Condemned’ God forbid it that you would know first hand the pain of sexual abuse for your family or those you love. You shame the heart of scripture with your pithy ‘better than you deserve’ logic. You are certainly no friend to anyone here who has been abused or loved someone who has been abused.

  37. exCLCer
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Matt said “I wish we could out the sgm pastor. He needs to get out of ministry. At least report him to CPS so they know he is a predator protector.”

    Believe me when I tell you, CPS (Child Protective Services)here in Montgomery County is definitely aware of these pastors and their ridiculous support of the molesters in their church. They were completely opposed to their ass-backwards way of thinking, and shocked by thier ignorance, haughtiness, sense of authority (feeling as if they were above the law), and unprofessionalism all which they demontrated very clearly during the many subsequent court procedings and interaction they had with CPS during my familys situation. Willingly committing a felony by clearly trying to NOT report, or keep someone from reporting, is not a lack of judgement, or a mistake. Lets call it what it is, a CRIME.

    When your child tells you they have been abused:
    1. Stay calm. Hearing that your child has been abused can bring up powerful emotions, but if you become upset, angry, or out of control, this will only make it more difficult for your child to disclose.
    2. Believe your child, and let your child know that he or she is not to blame for what
    happened. Praise your child for being brave and for telling about the sexual abuse.
    3. Protect your child right away by getting him or her away from the abuser and immediately reporting the abuse to local authorities. If you are not sure who, to contact, call the ChildHelp National Child Abuse Hotline at 1.800.4.A.CHILD, call 911, or take your child directly to a hospital.

    ****Notice that “confront the abuser or their parents” and “call your church pastors for their advice” are NOT mentioned in the first three most important things to do. Note in number 3 that the words right away and immediately are used.

  38. LongingforHeaven
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    You took the word right out of my mouth!!!!! This is what the brode of vipers will never understand:

    “These sgm pastors are pervert enablers who only care about themselves. They have innocent blood on their hands. For them to say this only says a lot about them and how dark their hearts are.”
    :word

  39. NLR
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Luce–

    Hey friend! Hugs.

    A Friend–

    You said :@SGMNot, I am very sorry that you went through what you went through and I will pray for you, your daughter, and your family. My guess is that we know each other since you mentioned being in CLC for a long time, though I am not personally aware of your situation. Having children, including a daughter, I know such a situation would be difficult for me as well. It is very important to protect our children, so your story is a reminder to be vigilant to that end.

    I want to ask and clarify this… In your statement, you make no mention about the abhorrent behavior from SGM regarding this? Did you do that in an earlier post I did not see? Because here, you did remind SGMnot about her/our responsibility about protecting our children and being vigiliant. It just came across as an indirect but nice way to say that the parent was irresponsible or the opposite of not protecting the child or being vigiliant was the result herel–the abuse. I hope I am most definitely seeing that wrong. I dont’ mind if I am, just tell me that I am.

    Also, are you not outraged at the consistent behavior of your church in these sex abuse cases?

    In a later response, you said that if you got a satisfactory response regarding the abuse of your own child, if htat happened to you, that would determine if you would or would not go to the authorities. For you, what would be satisfactory enough for you not to go to the authorities and turn in a molestor of a 3-year-old? It seems like in your view, the church should also handle what are serious legal matters and deservingly so? Kinda like a theocracy or such. Why does the “church” need to handle all of these matters? Is there any separation between church and state, church and the law, especially in regards to criminals. Do you agree that this person is a criminal? Do you believe that sexual predators and molestors are criminals? And do you believe that criminals should be fairly dealt with in the criminal and justice system that we are told to uphold?

    I’m not sure how knowing if one is a parent or not would assist you into answering them more wiser? Can’t people make objective determinations about molest and criminal sexual behavior without having to be a parent and can’t you answer them objectively no matter what their station in life?

    How would you have answered Matt any differently if he were a parent? I would hope your answers to be based on objective truth, discernment and good judgement rather than the circumstances in Matt’s life that would adjust any wisdom in your answer. Am I getting you wrong?

    BTW, you dont have to answer all of my questions. Some of them might even be rhetorical and I am thinking out loud. But I am finding your statements and questions quizzical.

  40. John
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    PLEASE OUT THE PASTOR. I can barely believe what I’m reading here. This is criminal activity. Whether or not he’s judged by God and eternally D**ned is not our concern. Our concern should be legal justice for those hurt by him and ensuring no future children are subjected to this trauma. Anything less is irresponsible on our part. This guy is still GETTING PAID, for crying out loud.

  41. Ummm
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Condemned no more….I don’t know how to block quote, but you said this, “The Lord gave me a prophetic word picture that I’ll share later after running it by my own pastor and cg leader to make sure it’s appropriate for this time…until then be encouraged brothers and sisters!”

    Let’s see…the Lord gave you a prophetic word, but you’ve got to get clearance from your pastor and cg leader. Wow. There are just so many things to say about that. As a matter of fact, most of those things have been said right here.

    Are you really sure you would be praising God when your three year old has just been molested? Would your pastors? Something is wrong with that.

  42. A Friend
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    @Matt: I’m not sure why you don’t want to answer my question. You’re right, it’s not about your experience. But experience colors the responses on this blog – if experiences weren’t shared, this blog wouldn’t exist. I’ve shared mine when you asked, but you refuse to share yours. You carry a big stick on this blog and have a lot of contempt and strong words for people like me who are in an SGM church, but I wonder if you have the courage of someone like SGMnot or ex-CLC’er. At least they willingly share their own experiences. But you have little interest. My question was honest, but you’re not being straightforward.

  43. Guy
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    A question for the attorneys that read here -

    Is there a statute of limitations for this sort of thing? Not necessarily just the perp, but for those “mandatory reporters” that knew of the situation and didn’t report? Feel free to email me if you aren’t comfortable posting a comment.

  44. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    “PLEASE OUT THE PASTOR. I can barely believe what I’m reading here. This is criminal activity. Whether or not he’s judged by God and eternally D**ned is not our concern. Our concern should be legal justice for those hurt by him and ensuring no future children are subjected to this trauma. Anything less is irresponsible on our part. This guy is still GETTING PAID, for crying out loud.”

    John, I have to agree with you on this one. I do not want sgmnot to think i am not supportive but the only way to end this madness at sgm is to make such behavior public. It might not get the pastor fired but at least people would know not to attend there if they care about kids and want predators dealt with.

    I expect sgm would really try to ruin the family more. Plant rumors and lie about them. That is how most of these churches operate anymore to save their public image. People just do not realize what a business it is.

  45. griefofwisdom
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    @NLR:
    I think your link is incorrect, is it this?
    http://www.cbeinternational.org/

  46. NLR
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Ummm–

    I thought that comment was sarcasm because I didn’t think it could have been for real. I didn’t know that person was for real. Are you sure they weren’t being sarcastic? Because if they weren’t, and they were for real, then I wonder this: If God gives a prophetic Word, (and from my recollection when he gave it in Scripture), didn’t he always give instruction on when to say it and gave the person discernment as well as permission to speak in his stead?

    I’m just trying to give that person the benefit of the doubt, maybe the person wants to have confirmation first about the prophecy–naturally the pastor and CG leader would have been the two people God would have chosen to confirm it with, right?(insert sarcasm)

    Man, it’s really this bad huh? Wow.

  47. A Friend
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    @NLR, thank you for your questions. First of all, I was not anywhere saying that SGMnot was being irresponsible. If anyone got that impression, I’m sorry for that. It’s not mine to judge. Concerning your question about how I feel about what the pastors are doing, I answered that question with this response in #105: “Concerning your specific question, I think I would prefer to hear what the pastor has to say first, since I’m not familiar with that specific circumstance. (i.e. in Proverbs, a person can sound right until another states his case)”

    If I heard the pastor’s answer to this, I might or might not agree – I don’t know. But I think it’s important to hear both sides of the story first. It’s possible I might come out agreeing and say, “That was terrible counsel – why did you counsel this?”

  48. No Longer Reformed (NLR)
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Grief–

    Thanks for fixing that for me. I didn’t do the html correctly. There are a lot of articles in the free articles section that are just ASTOUNDING and excellent material to compare and contrast the current teachings of authoritarianism in the church, as well as CBMW. There is also a good list of reading and sources like “Discovering Biblical Equality” by Gorden D. Fee and others. It’s about 500 pages and feels like reading an indepth thesis. It’s taking me some time to work through it but I am learning a ton, and for me, it’s been healthy and eye opening to see various arguments regardin men and women in the church, paternalism and authoritarianism. The arguments are far more convincing and overwhelmingly obvious from the “egalitarian” point of view. But I put “egal” in

  49. Matt
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    “@Matt: I’m not sure why you don’t want to answer my question. You’re right, it’s not about your experience. But experience colors the responses on this blog – if experiences weren’t shared, this blog wouldn’t exist. I’ve shared mine when you asked, but you refuse to share yours. You carry a big stick on this blog and have a lot of contempt and strong words for people like me who are in an SGM church, but I wonder if you have the courage of someone like SGMnot or ex-CLC’er. At least they willingly share their own experiences. But you have little interest. My question was honest, but you’re not being straightforward”

    See Blog Readers? Is this not classic sgmese?

    1. Experiences colors the responses on this blog.

    Anybody wanna analyze that one? What a nice insult!

    2. I have no courage because I won’t share my story.

    I have no story to share, but never mind that…A Friend has another purpose and it is Ad Hominem all the way.

    But he cannot believe I have no story to share because I am so passionate, use strong words (about molestation of a 3 year old!) and carry a big stick.

    Maybe I am just a guy who thinks it is EVIL when little kids are molested and the pastors enable the predators and revictimize the victim. I think it is EVIL when pastors tell the parents not to call the authorities.

    “A Friend” finds that strange. Imagine that.

    I guess we can safely assume there aren’t many guys in SGM left who feel that way about innocent kids.

  50. No Longer Reformed (NLR)
    August 4th, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Grief–

    Thanks for fixing that for me. I didn’t do the html correctly. There are a lot of articles in the free articles section that are just ASTOUNDING and excellent material to compare and contrast the current teachings of authoritarianism in the church, as well as CBMW.

    There is also a good list of reading and sources like “Discovering Biblical Equality” by Gorden D. Fee and “What Paul Really Said About Women” by John Templeton Bristow, and others. It’s about 500 pages and feels like reading an indepth thesis. It’s taking me some time to work through it but I am learning a ton, and for me, it’s been healthy and eye opening to see various arguments regardin men and women in the church, paternalism and authoritarianism.

    The arguments are far more convincing and overwhelmingly obvious from the “egalitarian” point of view. But I put “egal” in quotes because that’s what comps would say, yet, people like Fee and Rebecca Merrill Groothius and others would say that they were conservative and yet complementarian, yet not in the way that CBMW would define it. Apparently, like many other doctrines, they have redefined complementarianism as well. I think any Christian that would settle on a doctrine or point of view would do themselves a favor knowing all sides of the argument, and in the end, not feeling compelled to choose any–honestly. I dont have to choose A or B, I can choose Z if it’s compelling. I’ve just never heard the “egalitarian” POV until now and without that wealth of information, I would say not only that I have been misinformed, but also, I haven’t given myself the fair choice of deciding what I believe Scripture says in light of overwhelming information available to me (cultural analysis, etc…) that would aide me in making those decisions.

    John–

    I agree as well. After reading this story this morning, it was that little feather that pushes you right over the edge when you were hanging on with your pinky finger. I understand even more now why Andy wants to pickett. I dont even know that it would make a difference, but I do know that someone will notice. I dont understand the heart of these defenders. I dont have kids, but my maternal instinct is like a fierce lioness. I’ll rip somebody to shreds when it comes to hurting a child. I can’t even fathom what I’d do. I can’t understand the lack of fierce anger and outrage over people doin this. If someone did that to my baby, my precious little baby (even if she were 17), I’d pray to God that they’d have a way of escape. It would be best for them. Trust me. And I applaud the men here who go bezerk over hearing this stuff and want to pummel the people who cover it up and abuse these kids. That, to me, is the normal response. It shows you have a heart made of flesh.

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