A week ago today, Sovereign Grace Ministries announced its new Board of Directors. Despite the fact that several SGM churches had expressed concern over the selection process of the new board – particularly the tight time constraints placed upon pastors to provide feedback – Dave Harvey nonetheless said, in his announcement about the new board,
Each of these men was nominated by the interim Board, approved for service by their local pastoral teams, and then affirmed through a feedback process open to all ordained pastors of Sovereign Grace churches.
A day or two later, the pastors of Covenant Life Church announced to members that the church was suspending its contributions to the Sovereign Grace Ministries organization:
Dear Covenant Life members,
Our prayer for you today is one offered many times by the Apostle Paul in his letters: “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
We are writing briefly to let you know that the elders have decided, with the input of our Financial Advisory Committee (FAC), to suspend Covenant Life Church’s financial giving to Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM).
The background is that the FAC and its subcommittee have requested more time to ask further questions and to weigh the upcoming Ambassadors of Reconciliation (AOR) report before giving the elders a final recommendation about our church’s financial giving to SGM. The committees have recommended that Covenant Life suspend its giving at this time, while their evaluation continues. We believe this recommendation is wise, and we will continue to work with the FAC to determine the best long-term course of action.
We’ve communicated this decision in person to the leadership of Sovereign Grace who were very gracious in their response. We communicated that we are still committed to funding our shared mission in North Africa and have asked them to make us aware of other projects that we could specifically fund.
We will update you when we receive the FAC’s final recommendation. Moreover, when we present the 2013 Fiscal Year budget to the congregation this summer, we will include a plan for allocating any funds that are uncommitted as a result of the suspension.
Please continue to pray for the pastors and others involved in this decision. We take the stewardship of the resources of our church very seriously and need God’s help. And as always, we invite your perspective and wisdom and encourage you to speak with your pastor about any questions you may have.
In Christ,
Your pastors
Although it seems obvious that CLC’s contributions to the SGM organization would comprise a significant portion of SGM’s budget, the suspension of funds will apparently not have an immediate effect on SGM’s operations, according to this statement from a member of CLC’s Financial Advisory Committee:
I think it is important for our church family to be aware of a critical finding of the subcommittee, namely that CLC’s decision to suspend its monthly contributions should not result in any SGM employee losing their job due to financial considerations in the near term. As a subcommittee, we spent a significant amount of time reviewing the financial position of SGM, including its balance sheet reserves, cash flows, budgeted expense projections and income expectations. According to SGM’s audited financial statements for its fiscal year ended August 31, 2011, the organization had net assets of $5.9 million and only $300,000 in current liabilities. We reviewed more recent financial information and concluded that SGM has sufficient financial resources to continue to pay its current employees. No one should be under the impression that our pastors have cost anyone their job. That simply isn’t the case.
On Friday, Sovereign Grace Ministries shared on the “Plant & Build” blog some additional information about the upcoming activities of the new Board of Directors. Among other things, there’s this:
First, we decided to create a polity committee to consist of two members of the Board, two members of the Leadership Team (including C.J. Mahaney, who will chair the committee), and at least three Sovereign Grace pastors not on the Board. This committee will pick up the work that has already been done on polity and develop it to give better definition to the ministry, to how SGM as a ministry relates to pastors and their churches, and to policies and procedures for making decisions and selecting leaders.
Then there was this update about how the report from the Ambassadors of Reconciliation will be handled:
Second, we expect to receive the Ambassadors of Reconciliation report in the coming two weeks. We plan to begin discussing the report on a retreat in Louisville April 9 & 10 and then to make plans for responding.
As reader “Ozymandias” points out, in response to this announcement,
And, as T4G begins on 10 April, can we assume that there will be no public release and/or public discussion (including public discussion among non-SGM conservative evangelicals) of the report prior to the start of T4G? And, by “make plans for responding,” one means “public release,” correct? Because, if it doesn’t mean public release on SGM’s website, then #7 on this timeline is now incorrect.
I thought this, from reader “B.R. Clifton,” was a succinct summation of the reality of what can be expected, with respect to the AoR report:
It must be remembered, as I understand it, the report was bought and paid for by SGM. As such it is their sole property to do with as they see fit. Another though is the SGM board now in place is not the same board that purchased or made arrangements for the AOR investigation and report. They may or may not feel any obligation to honor promises or implied promises made by the previous board. The have a number of options they can pursue at their own choosing:
1. Ignore the report altogether.
2. Release their own version of what the report says.
3. Release only their reply or response to the report.
4. Release only certain parts of the report as they see fit.
5. Release the report in its entirety along with their response.Whichever they choose to do, they will be within their legal right as sole owner of the report. Each of the choices has its own consequences which no doubt they are now or will be weighing before taking any action on the report. All of this may or may not be in consideration of any moral obligation to be forthcoming and release the report unabridged.
Counting on the report triggering any wide sweeping changes could turn out to be just another busted balloon.
Thoughts?
March 31st, 2012 at 9:45 pm
I think I must be in something of a mood today, because I’m finding the current direction of this thread really irritating.
If you don’t mean to take a converation in a particular direction -- then don’t. Don’t bring it up, whatever it was that you thought might derail the discussion.
If you’re not actually condemning whole swaths of Christianity, or looking down your agnostic nose at those of us who believe in the Bible, then don’t write words that sound like sweeping condemnations.
And if you really do think your comments are going to be deleted, then save us all some time and don’t bother writing them.
There are LOADS of sites out there where people welcome this kind of debate. I can argue with the best of ‘em if I put my mind to it, but I both don’t feel like putting my mind to it and don’t want to publish put-downs of Christianity without some sort of response. So there we are. As I said, this is a place to discuss SGM and its issues, not what is wrong with the rest of Evangelical Christianity.
Nobody was ever argued out of a willful belief, anyway -- and that observation holds true for both the committed Christian and the committed “intellectual” agnostic/atheist.
April 1st, 2012 at 6:44 am
Glad I’m Out #144 -- “I was so unhappy and feeling oppressed there…” My husband, not a believer mind you, would comment on all the down-trodden faces he would see after a Sunday message. He noticed the lack of joy there! I have heard Rob Ruffus mentioned a number of times here. I am going to listen to his messages. Thanks for the recommendation.
Muckraker #145 -- “a very real lack of righteous anger…” I have noticed this about CLC members, too. One in particular told me to stop reading the blogs (this was a couple of years ago) because it was not good for my soul. She was right in that my soul was deeply troubled after reading accounts of abuse. And it should have been!!! The book, “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse,” talks about the “sh! don’t talk” policy (unwritten) of these types of churches. This is a very real issue in the church, which is hard to believe is still occuring given all that is being exposed. I guess there will always be some who choose to keep the blinders on. It’s difficult taking them off because then you would have to admit that what you believed was wrong and you would have to admit to being deceived.
What I find troubling is that children are being negatively affected by what is going on in SGM. That’s no secret. If you have a child who is depressed, sickly, not being reached out to by other kids in the church (i.e. a victim of a clique), or being approached by other teens with Pharisaical attitudes due to having a girlfriend, etc., or you have been told (just last year by a CURRENT CLC pastor) that it doesn’t matter where your daughter goes to school because she’s not going to college anyway (and I know people in each of these situations) then I urge you to consider something… What is the cost of your family choosing to stay at this church? What is the cost to your child? If you are taking your children to youth groups outside of CLC (and I know families doing this, too), then why do you stay? Obviously there is something negative going on that you have decided to “diversify” (which I believe is a good thing). But it still begs the question. Why stay? According to the book mentioned above, there are questions to ask yourself regarding the flight response. One of those is, if you knew then what you know now, would you still join this church? If the answer is no, then maybe you should leave. Well, I add to that, if your child is being shunned, not welcomed, depressed, etc., then maybe you should leave. In addition, if you, as an adult, are experiencing any of the above then that same question applies to you.
Some families may choose to stay because they want to show their kids how to walk through church conflicts. How about showing your children how to be discerning about what is going on and choosing to walk away? That would be a good lesson to learn, too. I plead with those still in this church, please consider your children and yourselves when choosing to stay. Your decision could have life-long ramifications. (Please don’t read this as negating the power of God to redeem all situations. I’m not saying that.)
Lastly, our kids are now doing activities and sports outside of the church, are actually meeting our neighbors and getting to know people outside of the CLC bubble we’ve been in for so long. It’s very refreshing!
April 1st, 2012 at 7:08 am
:word
CLCya #152: Wow! What a great set of questions to ask one’s self.
:clap :clap :clap
April 1st, 2012 at 7:51 am
To add to my comment (#152), a friend of mine had a revelation that when she stayed during long seasons (about 5 years) where her kids were treated badly she finally saw that she was “sacrificing her children to Baal”. She believes that is exactly what parents do when they stay involved at the expense of their children’s pain. After being at CLC for 18 years, she says the church gave her “nothing but shattered dreams” and like the song says she “ran away from this empty heart” of a church. Her family is prospering relationally together for the first time and leaning on the word of God and the Person and work of Christ rather than the church body and a group of men who claim to be her superiors and “pastors.”
April 1st, 2012 at 8:08 am
CLCya-great question to ask yourself-why do we stay?
I would say the best thing is to take some time and really figure it out. So often, if we have been in SGM for a long time, we don’t even know why we are there and how to think/process our own thoughts and feelings.
We are one of those families whose children go to a different youth group. (We are not at CLC or one of the mega-churches). We took a lot of time as a family talking endlessly about what we thought and felt. I would sit there with a pen and paper and when the kids would talk, I would take notes. The same with any conversations with my spouse. The whole family was encourage to just let it all hang out. At first, a lot of anger/venting/unkindness/judgement type of things. I did not point out anyone’s “sin”. trot out the Bible verses that squash honest speech, etc.
It took several weeks, but over time, what emerged was not “feelings/emotions” but the facts/experiences behind the feelings.
Then I organized it all into a few pages of bullet point type of notes, with corresponding examples. We went to the pastors and shared our experiences and what we saw. They were gracious and listened well, asked questions to clarify, and asked for suggestions of how they could change. They did not sniff for our sin, but thanked us for coming to them.
A few months later, one of the pastors asked to meet to follow up. His main concern was how we were doing as a family, and how our children were doing. It was not a ploy to get us back into youth group or anything.
he was truly caring for us.
During this time, we looked at the very real possibility that the Lord would have us find a new church. Once we were able to see clearly and acknowledge/process our feelings, we were able to listen to the Lord, and did not sense that we were to leave.
And the truth is, over a year or so, we are seeing a lot of positive change in a lot of the areas we had concerns about.
We have watched as the pastors have grown and changed, both in our local church and with regard to SGM. They have reduced giving to SGM, shared publicly what concerned them about the “quickly agree to these new board nominees”, why they didn’t sign the Fairfax letter (received it the day of the deadline), how they adressed their concerns to SGM individually, and the concerns they had after the board (in my words) basically spit in all the concerned pastor’s faces.
So this is where the Lord us for now.
I would strongly encourage everyone to take the time to ask themselves “why do we stay”, and take a LOT of time to get in touch with your thoughts and feelings, to seek the Lord, and then know in your heart, in a way that you can clearly understand, why you stay, or possibly realize that staying isn’t what God has for you right now.
April 1st, 2012 at 8:29 am
QE2, thanks for sharing what your family did. I commend you for discussing it honestly with your kids and I would encourage anyone still in SGM to do the same. And really listen to them -- especially your teens. As my spouse and I were considering leaving and talking with our teens, we learned for the first time how much they disliked the youth group because they felt judged and ostracized by the “in” crowd. They were happy to leave the church, as were we.
April 1st, 2012 at 8:32 am
News alert: Sovereign Grace Ministries has dissolved. The Pastors College will now become an all male nursing school.
April 1st, 2012 at 8:51 am
QE2 #155
This was just brilliant!! :clap What a great way to handle this!!
April 1st, 2012 at 9:42 am
CLCya and QE2 -
Great questions and great thoughts about how to handle the “Should I stay or should I go?” question. (And yeah, now The Clash is playing in my head. “If I go there will be trouble…if I stay it will be double…”)
:D
QE2, I am curious about something, though. This may sound like a super-obvious question, but, why did you take your family’s list of concerns to your pastors?
I say my question is super-obvious because on the one hand I can understand the possibility that you felt like the pastors needed to know what you had observed so that they could make changes and/or address the issues.
But on the other hand, this is something I’ve heard again and again from people who are having issues with their SGM churches. It’s almost a universal response, in fact, to go and tell the pastors either what you’re thinking or why you might be considering leaving.
I’d say that in my observation, this is not something that happens nearly as often in “normal” non-SGM Christianity. I think it actually reveals one of SGM’s oddities, the fact that pastors wield so much power and are viewed to be so in control that when any sort of problem arises, the only way to address it whatsoever is to go to the pastors and hope that they will “listen well” and be receptive.
(I’m not saying, QE2, that this was necessarily the case in your situation…just that it’s a trend I have observed among SGMers.)
April 1st, 2012 at 11:54 am
After one youth meeting where the speaker basically said “God took away my singing gift because I wasn’t focused on Him enough”, my teen was very scared and thought God was going to do something negative to her if she didn’t think about Him all the time. She never went back. I found the teen meetings much more intense than even the Sunday morning meetings. Kids questioning their salvation because of sin in their lives, very intense parents who were very driven for their kids’ spiritual lives. While I agree in theory that it is good to have parents involved in teen ministry and not just drop your kids off at the front door into the hands of a youth pastor and/or volunteers, SGM’s model of youth ministry is not seeker-friendly. If kids brought their unsaved friends they would feel horribly out of place and probably run for the door.
April 1st, 2012 at 11:59 am
And yes indeed, in keeping with our past practices, there will be a special course for future male pastors, on how to teach the women in your church the proper way to breastfeed their babies. We are SGM and we DO IT RIGHT!
:barf:
April 1st, 2012 at 2:53 pm
QE2 -- what an encouraging report on how thoughtful parents handle the needs of their children. It’s also encouraging to learn that your pastors have taken steps to ask hard questions of SGM, reduce giving and care for your family. Thx for sharing. Would you be comfortable sharing what SGM church you attend? If not, that’s ok too
April 1st, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Kris, had to point out an Irony with your Clash reference and this-
http://sovereigngraceministries.org/events/the-clash/default.aspx
Being that it is a six day conference focused on 17-23 year olds, thought it may fit in to some recent comments as well.
April 1st, 2012 at 4:13 pm
Unassimilated -
That’s hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.
April 1st, 2012 at 8:29 pm
5years-
You know…I hadn’t thought about it in a long time, but we did have a pastor (male) discussing the different aspects/advantages of breastfeeding in our parenting class at CFC. No joke….
April 1st, 2012 at 8:42 pm
Joshua Harris spoke at Fairfax today according to their website on 1 Peter 1:1-5 which is about elders. Did anyone listen?
April 1st, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Audio should be up shortly re: Josh Harris @ FFX, but here are my notes (emphasis on notes; please compare with released audio; apologies for length):
Initial Comments
-- wanted to communicate how grateful for this church, its leadership and its friendship
-- it’s been a difficult season, and the friendship and encouragement of the church and its pastors has been appreciated
-- thanking God for gospel partners like you
-- per MM’s request, highlighted recent book by Sam Allberry’s book, Lifted
Introduction to Sermon
-- talking about authority, polity and governance
-- reflecting on Downton Abbey; how people in different roles, classes and positions interact with one another
-- continue Downton Abbey comments; how some use position to protect; tension caused when there is confusion or abuse of authority
-- same thing true of families — defined lines of authority = peace; misuse, confusion, abuse of authority = chaos, discouragement and ineffectiveness
-- when authority is clearly outlined and Biblically defined, when there is trust and confidence in authority, church is effective
-- you should be concerned about church governance; it’s not a trivial detail
-- when governance goes wrong, it can obscure the gospel, can obscure the truth of God’s character
-- read 1 Peter 5:1-5
-- easy to move quickly into a discussion of elders and the congregation’s relationship with elders
-- What are the two key words in 1 Peter 5:1-5 — “chief shepherd”
-- Ultimate authority is Jesus; Jesus has all the authority in the church
-- This means that human authority is always limited; human authority in the church is always delegated authority, regardless of how influential, charismatic, dynamic, gifted the person or how large the church, human authority is delegated authority
-- Reference [without use of name] to Eddie Long’s recent “coronation” event
-- Only one king (Jesus); no human teacher can/should be elevated to the level of Jesus
-- We do this — we’re tempted to exalt leaders, our culture thrives on celebrity, we often gain identity through our leaders — however, we need to guard against it.
-- God has ordained leaders in the church; pastors submit to Jesus’ authority
Three Points to Understanding Goodness, Purpose of Authority + Limitation of Human Authority
A. Authority in the church must follow Jesus’s example of servant leadership
-- reflected on washing disciples feet and the passage regarding mother of James/John asking authority for her sons
-- not domineering — natural impulse is to assert authority in a sinful way and force people to serve us out of selfishness
-- call is to serve others — lead like Jesus leads — emphasis on servanthood and self-sacrifice
B. Jesus’s authority is exercised in his church through his word
-- need to listen and obey His holy word
-- How do we hear Jesus’s voice? Through his word given through the Apostles (1 John 4:6)
-- the way that the church obeys the authority of Jesus is to obey the word of God — human opinion and tradition is not above the word of God
-- we submit to Jesus by submitting to Jesus’s word
C. Because only Jesus has all authority, no other person in the church is given unchecked authority
-- quotes from Alexander Strauch’s Biblical Eldership
-- Strauch’s discussion of the fact that Jesus didn’t choose one person to lead the church
-- Jesus appointed a group; people from that group appointed groups of people to lead churches; Paul spoke to the elders (plural) in Ephesus, not the bishop of Ephesus, not the “chief elder” or “chief pastor” of Ephesus
-- In a team of elders, there should be shared leadership of men who are Biblically qualified
-- NT talks about elders who continue in sin being rebuked in the presence of the church — not unchecked authority
-- quoted Grudem: in Grudem’s experience, churches/movements often go off the rails when they don’t pay enough attention to polity
-- Glad that FFX is paying attention to polity
-- At CLC, learning the difference between checks/balances being done in a distrustful way (“We don’t trust you with authority”) vs. understanding what he’s talking about today (i.e. no unchecked authority because Jesus is the one and only chief shepherd)
Ended with summary of main points
April 1st, 2012 at 11:01 pm
OZ 167 Sounds like the same sermon Joshua delivered to CLC not many weeks ago.
April 2nd, 2012 at 4:47 am
Persona #168 — I would expect that it was the same sermon.
April 2nd, 2012 at 5:18 am
I have read a number of posts over time that seem to indicate the idea that these “SGM abuses” would not/might not have happened if the leadership (big dogs) had been better educated. I have to say that I think that idea is greatly flawed. While there is nothing wrong with arming ones self with a good and thorough education it is not a panacea. One need only to look at some other large denominations (most of which dwarf SGM) to see that education does not prevent these abuses. Our catholic brethren have been experiencing the “outing” of a fairly large number of clergy who have track records of abuse similar to what has occurred in SGM. There has also been the revelation of systemic coverup efforts on the part of higher ups to protect the abusers. The faith of the rank and file has been shaken and many have dropped out while others continue to “stick it out”.
If education were the cure all against clergy abuse then they would be totally clean. Catholic priest are among the most highly educated ministers in Christianity, yet there abuses persist.
The Southern Baptist Convention has a similar problem. One need only to “Google” SBC Abuse to find a systemic problem within their clergy ranks with the all too familiar cover up policy. In all of this the rank and file (the lowly laity) is largely kept in the dark. Like their catholic counterparts, Baptist professionals are usually well educated with a large percentage holding doctorates.
I have no doubt that other denominations might be suffering from the same malady.
While the professional ranks of Christianity may be suffering from the corruption of sexual abusers and pedophiles, the vast majority of them cast a blind eye to what is going on peferring to ignore the problem, perhaps in hopes that it will go away.
The bottom line is that no minister seems to be immune to such temptations, and education has nothiing to do whith whether one becomes an abuser or not.
:beat
April 2nd, 2012 at 9:24 am
It looks like C.J. Mahaney spoke again yesterday at Solid Rock. Looks like he will be a regular speaker there till he moves (3rd week in a row).
http://www.solidrockchurch.net/blog/index.php/p/A_Surprising_Prayer_Psalm_88
This time on Psalm 88. I haven’t listened to the message yet but the Passage talks about being in the “pit.” Will be interesting to hear what C.J. says about this passage.
April 2nd, 2012 at 11:32 am
It seems that comments are now closed on the Sovereign Grace blog, and all comments on previous posts have been removed. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this new?