It can be sort of amusing and sad at the same time, to see what the defenders of Sovereign Grace Ministries have to say about this site. Sometimes how they say it is even sadder and more amusing. I typically don’t quote email without the sender’s express permission, but because my correspondent, whom we’ll call “Sylvia,” specifically said she wanted her email addressed on the site, I figured it’d be OK to share. Here goes. Keep in mind, everything is quoted exactly as it was written.
Dear Kris,
Please take the time to read the following I wish to address on your blog.I have been attending a soverign grace church for half my life. A friend informed of your blog and I was shocked to read it. Percuscion of the church by a christian! You say your a christian but you tear down another church. Your a modern day percustor. In regards to the C.J. Maheany siuation I have to say D**n! I mean we’re all sinners. That’s the D**n point of the gospel. Therefore C.J. is a sinner, and needs grace. Good luck finding a church with a sinless pastor there.
I’m not changing my beliefs but as long you yant about how you don’t like homeschooled familes and saty-at-home daughters I am going to be mad. It’s a biblical view of how the church and the people should be.
I want to be a loving sister in Christ but I highly doubt your in Christ at all. Let’s be loving. Lets be how the bible calls us to be.
I’d love to hear back from you.
Sylvia
—————————–
In other news, I received the following from Lu Webb:
Hello Fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
I am Lu Webb, and like you, am a friend and longtime recipient of Brent Detwiler’s pastoral care. Though I am initiating this communication to you on my own accord, I do have Brent’s permission to do so.
Brent will soon be reaching his third anniversary of being unemployed from any meaningful full-time employment-hardly a cause for celebration! Several months ago I asked him how he was doing financially. Though Brent received a severance package from his last church employment, it obviously has not nearly been enough to cover his basic expenses since, nor can we expect it to. Since his separation from SGM, Brent and Jenny have been forced to deplete their savings and retirement accounts while Brent has felt called to expose and address the wrongs and injustices he feels God has revealed to him. I don’t need to remind you that this has been not only for the benefit of those directly involved, but also for those of us in the body of Christ. Brent has worked when and where he could while simultaneously holding SGM and those in its leadership positions accountable. Sometimes it was a voice crying in the wilderness.
Data gathered reveals that tens of thousands have read his materials and thousands have claimed to be helped through Brent’s written efforts over the last 3 years. SGM wikileaks alone is coming up on 100,000 hits.
Brent purposed to not place commercial advertising on his blog. He has never begged for money or charged a fee for access to his materials. All free. He did not want anyone to reject his writings on the basis of thinking he wrote them for money and was taking advantage of the situation.
He and Jenny have been through so much! One can only imagine the temptation to utter despair at the prospects of having dedicated more than 30 years of one’s life to a ministry and then be faced with evidence of betrayal, misrepresentation, slander, and isolation from friends, brothers-in-Christ, colleagues, and even family. Yet, he has persevered to ferret out the truth and reveal to us the nature of the emperor’s clothes. This “ministry” comes at a cost.
Brent is not perfect. He has admitted to his failures in leadership and practice. Who of us could stand up under the avalanche they’ve endured?
I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to write my fellow brothers and sisters to prayerfully consider giving a financial gift to the Detwilers to help them recover some of the financial losses they have incurred over the last 3 years. We all have been served so faithfully for decades by Brent as a pastor, teacher, apostle, counselor, and friend in many circumstances. Can we now serve them when they need us most?
Please know that helping them is not a statement of complete support or agreement with Brent or all he’s written. You may wish to consider it an act of mercy. You can be assured that your name will be kept in strict confidence under all circumstances. Neither I nor the Detwilers will interpret their financial help as unconditional approval, just an act of benevolence and care.
Time is running short before the Detwiler’s will be literally bankrupt. I am asking that you prayerfully consider agreeing with me that we will be led by the Spirit in not allowing the Detwiler’s to continue to be victimized. Some have attacked Brent publicly asking why he just doesn’t go out and get a job. With our current economy I don’t have to tell you that there are few prospects for a nearly 60 year-old man who has been in ministry his entire working life for a very unique “denomination” that blackballed him from his last employment.
There are three ways we can help the Detwiler family financially:
1. Prayerfully consider giving a one-time gift by check either directly to them at their home address or through Alethia Ministries.
Your donations to Alethia will be tax-deductible in that Alethia is a non-profit organization. A receipt for your donation will be sent to you for tax purposes.
2. Prayerfully consider giving benevolence using the Paypal button on BrentDetwiler.com. In addition, if you have the means, consider giving on a monthly recurring basis as the Spirit leads.
3. Enjoin others that you know have been touched by the Detwiler family and ask them to consider this as well.(by blog, email or phone call)
Please note that I am not communicating that we set Brent up with a salary for the rest of his life. I am simply suggesting that we come along side a brother and sister in need and help them get back on their feet.
Acts 2:44-47 exhorts us all to be a peculiar people in that we demonstrate our love not as the world would, but, as people sharing all in common with glad and generous hearts. Please read this passage as you consider my request and ask yourself is this an opportunity for you as well to stand up and be counted when the needs of our brother are serious. What the world sees as a painful, interruptive sacrifice the Spirit views as gladness and joy.
Finally…..
John 15:12 – ” This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you”.
Brent’s Address:
Brent Detwiler
278 Arrow Point Lane
Davidson, NC. 28036
Alethia Ministries
278 Arrow Point Lane
Davidson, NC. 28036
If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to call or write.
Sincerely,
Lu Webb
July 13th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Argus -- Yes, a good summation. I personally was surprised at how little came out with Brent’s documents. I bet CJ was surprised as well.
Shrewd move to wait first to see what comes out. Perhaps CJ was relieved when it was just the blackmail, and both happy and glad to confess to that
as part of a general feeling of relief. Once the dust settled, and it appeared that he was in the clear for everything else, he became a bit indignant,
arrogant, and turned the tables. He was pretty quick to say what he was not being accused of, part defensiveness and part an attempt to minimize what was shared
about him. It makes me wonder if culpability is the tie that binds these SGM men more than conviction or admiration. There is much more, God wont be mocked.
Does anyone know how ofter Larry speaks at Charles Schmidt’s church. I always felt the July 24th 2011 speaking engagement was a bit more posturing & solidarity rather than fellowship. Larry reconciles with Charles in 1997. In 1998 Larry is officially out. C.J. Informs SGM Pastors of His Leave of Absence on Jul 2, 2011
July 24th, 2011 Larry is speaking at Immanuel’s, Charles church.
July 13th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/2012/7/13/sovereign-grace-leaders-conceal-spiritual-abuse-like-penn-st.html
July 13th, 2012 at 10:06 pm
Last week, 8 July, Daniel Baker gave a sermon at the Apex church on deacons. First sermon under the “church government” tag. I’ve not had the opportunity to listen. http://sovgracenc.org/teachings/?sermon_id=479
July 13th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
I may have been where you got the date of Larry reconciling with Charles. I am almost positive that this reconciliation happened after Larry was forced out of SGM (PDI at the time). Thus the date I posted must have been wrong.
I recall reading that when Larry spoke at Immanuel’s last year it was just coincidental the timing with Brent’s documents. Larry had already been scheduled to speak there.
July 14th, 2012 at 12:28 am
I still remember the day when Larry and CJ announced that Charles Schmidt was leaving GOB, because it has disturbed me for years! They announced that there were some “doctrinal differences” with Charles, so he was going to leave. When he took the mic, to say goodbye, they did not like what he was beginning to say, and there became a ‘disturbance’, as CS was ‘cut off’, and ‘escorted out of the meeting’. At that point, LT got up to say how they were going to attempt to ‘separate peacefully’, but that at the point it had come to, they were bound to reveal to us how there had been some homosexual impropriety, which was why they were splitting. I was not only shocked, but could never understand why things went down the way they did. They gave us two different stories in the same meeting, and it seemed to me the first one was only a cover up. So, I felt misled and deceived, which I believe others felt as well, which was possibly the reason they left with CS. A lot of people discussed then whether such accusations were true, or were they just ‘made up’ because of the first disagreement. Some very dear friends of mine came and told my then husband that they were going with CS, and he asked them to not come around our family any more after that. Fortunately for me, when it was discovered he was a pedophile, and I made him leave, they came back and asked me how I felt about them being with CS, and offered to help me, if I wanted them to. They even became foster parents, to be able to take in some of my children, and are still dear friends to me to this very day. While I cannot bring myself to go to Emmanuels church, it certainly seems that God blesses many through that church, and I figure whatever has transpired in CS’s life is between him and God. I just want to stay away from the controversy. It definitely contributed to making me feel like I can trust no one but God Himself.
July 14th, 2012 at 12:42 am
Steve, it was keepinstep over at the Wartburg watch, and other sources like Jenn Grover’s timeline -- http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/12/13/sovereign-grace-ministries%E2%80%99-modus-operandi-de-gifting-pastors/
That’s where I got the dates from.
Looks like Larry was at Immanuel’s in 2009 -- http://www.larrytomczak.com/TheAdventureofLifestyleEvangelisms.pdf
Given that CJ and SGM altered their plans to have Larry speak at the pastors conference, I would imagine it makes CJ at least somewhat uncomfortable to know all his former co-laborers are getting along well. CJ could not even look the CLC members in the eyes and fled his church, and now the state. Whether intentional or not, the timing of Larry’s talk must have been unnerving for the man.
July 14th, 2012 at 6:36 am
Unassimilated
I see KeepInStep’s statement on the link you show. On Jenn Grover’s timeline I only see where she gives the date of Tomczak’s departure and not the Charles Schmidt reconciliation.
I am still almost 100% sure that this reconciliation between Tomczak, Che Ahn and Larry Tomczak happened after Larry left SGM (PDI) at the time. I am guessing KeepInStep is off in her date.
July 14th, 2012 at 8:44 am
Whirlwind said:
I have brought that up also. I am sure it is hard for C.J. Mahaney to realize how deep and severe his sin is when a lot of things are still business as usual for him. Yes CLC did “rebel” against Mahaney but on the other hand C.J.’s family left CLC indicating that their belief that C.J. was right or mostly right. Sadly top leadership of SGM have gone along with Mahaney and not called him out on his sin.
Mahaney also has a number of leaders both within SGM and outside of SGM telling Mahaney he didn’t do anything wrong or that his sins are trivial. Also no churches have yet left SGM. Another thing is that C.J. Mahaney is still on the teaching and conference circuit. All things still seem pretty normal to Mahaney.
Thus as you point out it isn’t just Mahaney’s own conscience but that other leaders have permitted this and told Mahaney he really didn’t do anything wrong. A person can be blind about their own sin but the others should be able to see his sin and be willing to point it out.
Why these men are silent about Mahaney’s sin is baffling. Various possibilities is fear of losing their job and means of supporting their family, being so enamored by Mahaney, not wanting this be true and thus closing their mind to it as long as other things.
Sometimes one can go for a while like Mahaney appears to be with no real consequences to his sin. Eventually the consequences catch up to the person and even group. Maybe one day we will see that.
July 14th, 2012 at 10:08 am
Steve 240
One reason the RBD’s might say that CJ did what ‘any of them would have done’ is that CJ couched his sin in terms of his desire to ‘save the organization’. By framing it that way, CJ would appear to be the great protector of PDI.
He probably did not tell them the gorey details of his threats and intimidation, or his other heavy-shepherding practices, we are so familiar with.
July 14th, 2012 at 10:11 am
For about 2 years before the release of Brent’s docs, I posted regular comments here about CJ being an abusive shepherd of the kind Ezekiel prophesied against. I regularly appealed to him to repent, saying that it was “hard for you to kick against the goads” of Jesus’ merciful appeals (Acts 25:14).
At the time, some people thought I -- and others who made similar statements -- were being extreme. There were many CJ defenders who accused us of slander for suspecting CJ of any knowledge of bad things that happened under his watch.
Then, one year ago, everyone learned that the truth was far beyond what any of us had dared to imagine. Perhaps assisted by our prayers, CJ seemed for a time to be toying with actual repentance. But, Dee and Deb have stated at TWW, he fooled us. Maybe his first statements were authentic, or maybe they were a brilliant head-fake.
Regardless, we don’t have to have divine revelation into his heart. His actions over the past six months have clearly revealed his heart, and that gives us the authority as the Church to judge him in righteousness. At this time, the man is a stiff-necked rebel against about 10 years of the most patient, respectful and persistent attempts imaginable to get him to admit to patterns of sin that have affected thousands of fellow saints. Brent’s appeals and efforts mock anything Penn State tried to do, to rein-in rebel leaders and make the system do the right thing.
In two places recorded in scripture, when Paul was faced with disobedient, unrepentant church members whose behavior was influencing others, Paul released a more severe mercy: he turned them over to Satan for a rock-their-world experience. The goal was not punishment but restoration through profound repentance.
It is time for this level of mercy to come to CJ -- and to his enablers. If there are any other shoes, it’s time for them to fall to the ground. It’s time to pray that God will release anything necessary, to end CJ’s destructive influence and the grief he is bringing to the heart of God.
July 14th, 2012 at 10:13 am
Steve- I will post all the links that corroberate the dates when I get to the office later today. Thought the two as a for instance would be sufficient.
July 14th, 2012 at 10:18 am
Persona
With the “persona” (no pun intended) that Mahaney exudes in teaching I am sure it hard for RBD to even be open to even considering that Mahaney did the sin that he did. You also make a good point about Mahaney claiming to do what he did to “save” the organization helped plead Mahaney’s case also.
This is especially true when what Larry was indicating was that he didn’t agree with the Reformed doctrine of Calvinism. These other RBDs that C.J. Mahaney now is associated with obviously also believe in Calvinism which I am sure made these RBDs more sympathetic to C.J. and what he did.
In other C.J. Mahaney was able to convince these RBDs that the end justified the means.
July 14th, 2012 at 10:23 am
CLC posted the polity paper on the members only blog. It’s really good!
July 14th, 2012 at 10:41 am
Unassimilated
I would be curious to see the links. I would be surprised if there was reconciliation between CS and LT before LT left PDI. Not sure how LT would have been able to have done the reconciliation while he was a part of PDI the way things are so controlled etc.
I at one time had a copy their joint reconcilation statement (included what Che Ahn said) but unfortunately lost that on one computer I had.
July 14th, 2012 at 10:55 am
Unassimilated & Steve240: I’m pretty sure the year of the Tomczak-Schmitt-Ahn reconciliation was 1998, and that I hit the wrong number key in my ref’d comment at TWW. I, too, have a copy of the reconciliation letter, but -- dadblastit -- can’t put my hands on it right now.
I did some Googling and found an independent verification of the 1998 date. This is by the “Anonymous” commenter on Dan Bowen’s blog, back in 2007 in a comment thread discussing Schmitt, Tomczak, etc. :
“(In 1998 Schmitt was reconciled to most of the leaders from the Gathering of Believers fellowship;
among these were Larry Tomczak, Jim Golden, Che Ahn, and others.)”
http://ern-baxter.blogspot.com/2007/08/advertising-kansas-city-conference.html?showComment=1187474520001#c7629720951730898526
Anonymous’ comment is a good description of the circumstances that led to the founding of Immanuel’s Church. There are also other informative comments by early CLC/Immanuel’s members.
July 14th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
keepinstep
Thanks for the clarification on the dates. If you find your copy of the reconciliation statement can you email me a copy? My email address is on my blog’s homepage.
I remember discussing the reconciliation with someone and they claimed that this was a ploy by Tomczak to reconcile with others after what Tomczak supposedly did.
If Larry while part of PDI went on his own and reconciled without consulting the pope C.J. Mahaney and defering to the pope’s wishes then that alone might have gotten Larry kicked out of PDI.
July 14th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
Not sure if this was posted yet --
http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/sgm/file.axd?file=2012%2f7%2fSGM+Board%E2%80%99s+Responses+to+Ministry+Recommendations.pdf
July 14th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Keepinstep -- Thanks for the info. If the date was 1998, and post excommunication of Larry, it seems CJ and PDI’s actions served to bring
the former PDI leaders a commonality and perhaps basis to reconcile. In a sorts they too became survivors. ExClcer’s Mom -- points out that
CJ & Larry decided to publicly state Charles’s sin issues, so it would seem that Larry may have different feelings when the shoe was on the other
foot, namely his own.
If the reconciliation was prior to the final nail in Larry’s coffin, perhaps the excommunication was more retributional. Either way it happened,
it was still a power grab where personal differences were turned into spiritual assassination. Perhaps not unlike Cain & Abel to a degree.
What is disturbing to me is not just the self preservation involved, but the impression that holding ones sin over another may have always been a
common practice. Given the odd chess match currently playing out between SGM and certain member churches, along with the stunning proclamations of
CJ’s fitness for leadership, I am left wondering just how much baggage these guys have, where is the truth in anything SGM, and at what point
did being your brothers keeper morph into keeping list of wrongs for gain and profit.
If this is how it is for the chosen leaders and fellow co-laboers, what chance did the lowly sheep ever have.
July 14th, 2012 at 6:38 pm
My statement that Larry became a Survivor started eating at me. I guess that when one is the victim of a system that
they helped to create and propagate, they get what they deserve in a sense. The laity on the other hand were trusting
unwitting targets of a system that was misrepresented. There is a difference.
July 14th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
Always remember …
It will be polity that ultimately divides SG churches … At least that will be the story.
However, it was CJ Mahaney’s ungodly leadership that caused this debacle.
Polity really doesn’t matter when you have godly men, filled with Holy Spirit, seeking the will of the Lord without polluting His will with their sins.
CJ must repent. Dave Harvey must repent. kauflin must repent. Connolley must repent. Loftness must repent.
July 14th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Unassimilated -- Larry and Charles Schmitt met again, after many years, at Larry’s mother’s memorial service. (According to the Social Security Death Index, Sophie died on March 30, 1998.) They began talking about what had happened to each of them when they ran afoul of the system. Larry realized he’d been pushed out, just as he had helped push Schmitt out. Obviously, compassion and empathy resulted.
In addition, as you noted, Larry and Charles clearly had something common in their excommunications: the discovery of sexual sin, and its being held over them in an attempt to coerce them into doing what the leaders wanted them to do (or not to do).
Besides that, Larry and Charles discovered that each had problems with Calvinist theology; that became another area of common experience. (Charles published his thoughts on Calvinism in late 1998; it’s available online here: http://www.immanuels.org/ministries/pastors_pen/doctrinal_writings/calvinism.htm)
According to Jenn Grover’s timeline, Larry left PDI in September 1997, and appealed to PDI for reconciliation in December 1998. Since Sophie died on March 30th, Larry and Charles must have met in early April 1998, and reconciled sometime that year. The reconciliation meetings held at Immanuel’s -- at which both Larry and Che Ahn spoke -- must have been in late 1998. (My file from that period has been misplaced; if I can find it soon I will give the exact date of that event.)
To circle-back to the Penn State scandal: what we know of Schmitt’s and Tomczak’s departures tells us that CJ is *very* aware of the explosive effect that sexual impropriety can have in the SGM leaders’ world. This is really all we need to know about why SGM leadership did everything possible to keep child sexual abuse hushed-up. As Kris skillfully spelled out some months ago, SGM’s twisted, indwelling-sin theology was the perfect weapon to deploy against the *victims* to ensure their cooperation. But SGM leadership had had enough experience handling sexual “booby traps,” to try to ensure the child-abuse cases didn’t blow up in their own faces.
Of course, Jesus -- his love, mercy, forgiveness, and desire to share their healing balm within his own Body -- is totally absent from these SGM scandals. When the going gets tough for SGM leaders, they never actually turn to the *living* Christ and his Spirit for help. That’s why they’ve become false shepherds, blind guides and whitewashed tombs. May God have (severe) mercy upon them all.
July 15th, 2012 at 1:27 am
keepinstep, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Whitewashed tombs has been the descriptive word on my mind through out this past year or so.
July 15th, 2012 at 6:17 am
Keepinstep, #521 --
“This is really all we need to know about why SGM leadership did everything possible to keep child sexual abuse hushed-up. As Kris skillfully spelled out some months ago, SGM’s twisted, indwelling-sin theology was the perfect weapon to deploy against the *victims* to ensure their cooperation. But SGM leadership had had enough experience handling sexual “booby traps,” to try to ensure the child-abuse cases didn’t blow up in their own faces.”
And they continue to blame the victims/families to this day. Similar to the Penn State scandal, anytime men are set on their own glory, reputation, self-preservation, it’s incredible the lengths they will go to to protect that. SGM/Fairfax has done this at least three times with child sex abuse and in attempt to “repent” only continued to cover themselves and falsely accuse the victims family. Do they think God does not see what they’ve done?
July 15th, 2012 at 6:54 am
Brokenherted #517, thanks for posting this. While reading it I found myself wondering why is SGM saying we agree and from here on we are going to instruct all of our pastors and members to do this.? I’m sure there are pastors within SGM that have done things wrong, but these were recommendations for YOU SGM not just your pastors. Why is this so bleeping hard for you to say “Hey we have done x y and z wrong please forgive us”? Aaaaahhhhhh!!
A great example of this humility is Josh Harris. He stood up in front CLC and said Hey we have been doing these things wrong (He actually listed specific things in May of 2011). Then he did it again when this whole debacle hit. And then AGAIN he stood up in front of CLC and asked for forgiveness for things he said and how he felt he lead wrongly
I need to stop reading SGM propaganda. It only hurts my head and really pisses me off!
July 15th, 2012 at 7:23 am
Yeah, KWIM, I agree.
Even when schooled by AOR, the SGM response is to make themselves teachers.
They say, “Check. We got this. On it. Already did it,” and then immediately turn around and say they will teach this to ‘their’ pastors and make sure they do it, too.
As if most pastors (and parishioners) aren’t already better at it than SGM leadership is.
As if to blame-shift and deflect by implying that the real problem was that the pastors were ‘misunderstanding’ and not getting it right.
As if SGM leadership must always be morally superior and in authority over the pastors who need them so. (Never mind the lowly sheep — they will get it by ‘trickle-down’ effect.)
Incidentally, in saying they will teach and require these ‘new’ behaviors (of grace and humility and forgiveness?) of their pastors, they are revealing their true position on polity — that they are large and in charge and will continue to direct and require unanimity of ‘their’ pastors. Whatever the polity ends up saying on paper, these guys cannot see themselves functioning in any other way but as authoritative denomination heads.
July 15th, 2012 at 8:03 am
Argus 524:
BINGO!
July 15th, 2012 at 8:07 am
“Waiting for the CS shoe to drop…”
That is an understatement. Once the CS shoe drops, this blog will cease to exist and all the SGM issues will seem trivial. Then there will be an EC Survivors…except there aren’t any.
July 15th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
There aren’t any?
July 15th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
keepinstep -- Thank you, that was very helpful. When it comes to sexual impropriety, it seems that CJ wrote the playbook for SGM and the churches.
Yet when I was reading their response to AOR, I see this;
This perhaps to imply that it was a universal failure that brought them to this point, rather than the systematic failure of the SGM leadership.
July 15th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
just saying… In regard to the CS shoe, I could not agree more.
July 15th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Pardon my ignorance, but what is “the CS shoe”?
July 15th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
If another shoe falling would end this injustice, someone just needs to drop it already.
Earlier disclosure means fewer victims.
July 15th, 2012 at 10:28 pm
yes, but what is CS?
July 15th, 2012 at 11:39 pm
More on comments 454 & 474. From an outsiders view it appears that the following could have been factors/circumstances for Jared selection as senior pastor at CovFel. 1. Dave Harvey watched Jared grow up and spent many an hour disciplining him. Dave had first hand knowledge of Jared’s strengths/weaknesses. 2. Jared’s father is a loyal SGM pastor to the core and supports CJ/Dave. 3. I cannot substantiate this but one has to wonder if there was some degree of favoritism with Jared’s family and Jared’s selection? Despite Jared’s rebellious teenaged years (which Jared admits to), his father remained a SGM pastor while other pastors had been declared unfit for ministry based on situations far less egregious than Jared’s rebellion. Jared’s dad is also on the Board of Directors of SGM. 4. Jared is highly loyal to SGM, CJ and Dave. 5. He is young, smart and bookish. The young part probably gave him a huge edge over anyone on the current CovFel staff in light of SGM growing emphasis and commitment to youth and what appears to be an abandonment of the “older” generation. 6. Purely opinion here, now that Josh Harris is out of the picture, assuming CJ remains President of SGM for the next several years, Jared could be a candidate to replace CJ. Jared has “SGM pedigree,” is grounded in SGM doctrine and practice.
July 15th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
Charles Schmidt, an early associate of Larry Tomczak and C.J. Mahaney from the early days of their ministry. Now pastor of Immanuel’s Church in Silver Spring, MD.
July 16th, 2012 at 12:44 am
WhatToDo #534 — In your 3rd point, you mention…’one has to wonder if there was some degree of favoritism with Jared’s family and Jared’s selection? Despite Jared’s rebellious teenaged years (which Jared admits to), his father remained a SGM pastor while other pastors had been declared unfit for ministry based on situations far less egregious than Jared’s rebellion’. This is a big point. One would wonder why Jared’s Dad was given a pass as a father/pastor when others had been degifted because of wayward children. Maybe he was more open in asking for help than others had been. Maybe no on else desired Ken Mellinger’s job. Who knows?
It looks like SGM makes it up as they go along, case by case.
July 16th, 2012 at 12:56 am
I think the hostility that some have toward Calvinism distorts their ability to see what’s going on.
Mohler tried to put down the “missional” church planters like Sojourn about seven or eight years ago. He failed and then tried to co-opt them. instead.
A new Sojourn network doesn’t help Mohler at all because he already controls the SBC’s church planting organization. Sojourn is an alternate path for young men that he cannot fully control.
CJ showing up at Sojourn was a diplomatic visit but Sojourn is not one of Mohler’s puppet organizations. I think it is something he tolerates because he has to. Mohler might plan on using SGM to cut into Sojourn’s market for young seminary graduates.
More than that, I think the SGM Pastor’s College will be at least partially integrated with Southern Seminary and Boyce College. The seminary needs a new revenue stream.
July 16th, 2012 at 1:22 am
I think what people don’t understand is that a lot of young men have used the SBC tuition subsidy to get a good seminary education at a low price, with no intention of remaining loyal to the SBC or at least no willingness to work with in formal SBC structures.
This is partially a result of Mohler and Dever reaching out to the homeschool and Christian school movement, both the Fundamentalist type and the Charismatic type.
Appealing to those people is a way for Southern Baptist seminaries to get their enrollment numbers higher (numbers are really, really important to the SBC). But those people are more independent and don’t have deep personal connections to the SBC.
Seminaries are now faced with an alumni base that doesn’t feed back into the system at the same level earlier generations did. Compromises like moving SGM headquarters to Louisville have to be made to keep revenues up.
July 16th, 2012 at 1:33 am
CS is an acronym/initials for Charles Schmidt. The basics are in the recent postings.
July 16th, 2012 at 5:07 am
Just wondering…there hasn’t been a new post here since early June. Any reason?
July 16th, 2012 at 7:50 am
Oswald (536), “It looks like SGM makes it up as they go along, case by case.” It’s baffling, it’s beyond baffling. There is a gap that is growing between what has been taught and how things are applied.
July 16th, 2012 at 8:39 am
Oswald said, “One would wonder why Jared’s Dad was given a pass as a father/pastor when others had been degifted because of wayward children. Maybe he was more open in asking for help than others had been.”
Oswald, possibly, but I knew a few of the degifted pastors rather well and they were VERY open to asking for help for their kids. I would very seriously doubt that a few of them were kicked out because they just weren’t “open” enough in asking for help. These guys were more so excrutiatingly open and wanted help. I just want to be careful that our statements don’t make it out like somehow the pastors who were forced to step down could have done something better to have avoided it. Some of these guys were abused and rode out of town and there is no way that Jared’s father somehow just did it better.
July 16th, 2012 at 8:54 am
Stunned #542 — I was merely speculating; hence the word ‘maybe’. I actually know nothing about any of the degifted except what I’ve read here, etc.
My speculating continues in the second half of the comment #536: ‘Maybe no on else desired [to have] Ken Mellinger’s job/[church]‘. [words added]
July 16th, 2012 at 9:39 am
I hear you, Brother. I know some of the guys who were degifted read here and I’d never want them to feel any condemnation. That maybe is one great word. :)
July 16th, 2012 at 11:14 am
From way up the thread:
In my opinion, these kind of dynamics were part of the situation when SW was forced to go to Roanoke, then brought back, branded, shunned and silenced for ten years. He was a gifted, excellent preacher.
Please pray for him, seriously — please pray for him and his family.