We’ve had some fascinating discussions taking place over at the previous post, “Fear and Loathing in my ‘In’ Box.” But the “comments” section there is nearing 500 responses and is probably a pain to load for those working without a high-speed connection. So I decided we could continue the discussion here.
Feel free to share anything here that you wish, but some topics to consider addressing might be:
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Why do so many Sovereign Grace Ministries ex-members still express fear when discussing their SGM experiences? After all, what could they possibly have to be afraid of?
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As our commenter “Freeda Think” said, it might be interesting to discuss SGM’s use of fear and control. Do you think these are tactics deliberately employed? Perhaps some of you might want to do a little research and share what you discover. How would a Christian ministry reach a point where its people are afraid of leaving said ministry? Is fear ever a mark of a healthy or “normal” ministry?
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Speaking of “normal” ministries…something that came up in our last discussion was the use of the “C” word (“CULT”) as it applies to Sovereign Grace Ministries. Quite some time ago, in this post, I asked people to weigh in on what makes a cult. Can a ministry proclaim the God and the Gospel of the Bible and yet still become a “cult” through their use of spiritual abuse and “cult-like methodologies”? [As a personal disclaimer here, I have an exceedingly difficult time with the use of this term for SGM! At the root of my discomfort is how I feel about the many dear Sovereign Grace people I know. I simply cannot think of them - individually - as "cult members"!] Yet several ex-SGM folks who post regularly here, and who have come across as very thoughtful, well-balanced, and educated, have in recent days suggested that in their opinions, SGM is indeed a “cult.” So perhaps we could discuss whether this term (“cult”) is simply too inflammatory, too pejorative, and too condemning to use for a “family of churches” that preach the Word of God.
All right, people. It’s time to get to work. Please join me in the discussion by posting a comment below.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Hi Kris,
Usually when we think of a cult, we think of a group that denies the Trinity or the deity of Christ. That seems to be the main common denominator among the cults. And also, most cults would be considered non-Christians (not born again or Spirit filled true believers). This is certainly not the case with SGM. So while they have many cultic tendencies, they are genuine believers, and believe in the deity of Jesus.
So I guess our consideration of SGM being a cult will be determined by how far we are willing to expand our definition of what exactly defines a cult.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
I had a little pamphlet one time that was about dangerous religious groups (DRG”s). Personally, I think I am much more comfortable with that terminology, because we are discussing genuine Holy Spirit filled, born again believers in SGM, who confess the truth that Jesus Christ is God.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Wikipedia has a lengthy entry on the term “cult.” I’m sure many people here would disagree with some of what is said, but it could, perhaps, shed a little light on how cults are defined.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
After reading Dennis’ comment, I did a search on DRGs. Forgive me if this link has already been posted, but I did find something on DRGs. It was written in the 80s, and I confess, I did not read it word for word. But what I did read sounded familiar to what hs been discussed here.
http://www.rbc.org/uploadedFiles/Bible_Study/Discovery_Series/PDFs/How_to_Identify_a_Dangerous_Religious_Group.pdf
March 7th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
WOW Lynn!!!!
That is the exact paphlet that I had by Mark DeHaan! That is incredible. I did not know that it was available online. I have not read that again recently. I read when it first came out. Thanks for the link. That should be some great info for us to discuss.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Dennis,
They don’t call me the Google Goddess for nothin’, my friend…
March 7th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
First off, I want to thank Kris and all the regular participants here. My husband and I stumbled onto Travis’ blog at the end of last year, a few months after we left our SGM church. Travis’ story about why he left had such startling similarities to our own experience, that it prompted me to google “cult” and “sovereign grace”. Whoa! That’s how we landed here. We’ve been lurking more or less for two-three months now. Thank you for being vulnerable. Thank you for sharing your stories. While ours is not amongst the worst of the histories recounted, it is certainly bad enough to make us sigh with relief that we have escaped.
It has been hard not to feel how stupid we have been to participate in something so very wrong. We moved to be closer to this church, and completely rearranged our lives for it. We spent many years investing time, effort, and money (in the sense that we sacrificed some of livelihood to “serve”) — only to find out that it wasn’t what we thought it was. To say that we feel betrayed and deceived is an understatement. We were in the lower levels of “leadership” and had an opportunity to see behind the closed doors. We knew we would be rocking the boat to call them on some of the deception we saw. We kept hoping things would change. At the time, we thought it was just that local church. Now, we know it’s a “movement wide” phenomenon. Thankfully, God made us see what it really is.
This blog has helped us, my husband especially, to process through how we got where we are and to give up hope that we will someday recover. I am so impressed by the gracious and articulate replies. Thank you. I don’t think I will be so articulate, so forgive me in advance.
I almost commented awhile ago when someone was talking smack about Jane Austen. She was one of my favorite writers before I ever heard of SGM. So, lay off Jane. ;)
However, this last post is what has prompted me to say HI. The same day that topic went up, a friend from our former church contacted me to ask why I wasn’t maintaining our friendship. Granted, I was keeping things distant for several reasons. 1. Her husband is a cgl as well as a “scout”. He betrayed several of my husband’s confidences that eventually led to attempts at “discipline” which, thankfully, helped the scales fall from our eyes re: the church in particular and SGM in general. 2. She grilled me prior to our leaving, defending the leadership, saying, “No one’s perfect.” “We’re all sinners.” You know the story. Basically, they’ve got a keg of the Kool-Aid in their kitchen. I think I would agree with “the cult-like tendencies” category.
To be honest, I’ve been afraid to just be honest and say, “I think your church is jacked up, and you’re blind to it.” This post helped me to see that I was fearful, but there really wasn’t a reason to fear. In answer to the original question, wouldn’t CJ say, “It’s fear of man?” ;)
Anyway, that post prompted me to answer her and tell her I thought there were some serious, unbiblical practices going on. Needless to say, she didn’t get it. After several days, she responded in ways that reflected mainly her concern for herself and our “friendship”, but no acknowledgement of my claims. She hid behind the “I don’t know much about church government” statement. Shouldn’t the phrase “unbiblical forms of counseling and shepherding” cause someone concern??
So, I ask that you would pray for me that I would have wisdom in what to say at this point. I don’t want to be fearful. I want to be honest. While I would just like to shrug the whole thing off, I do care about her and her family. I just don’t have the energy for a fight. Any thoughts?
March 7th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Miss Bennett:
First, I like Jane Austen, too! (Sorry SGM Cas!!) And you are very articulate!
Second, I’m an outsider , but I had to break off a friendship with a person in SGM, so I do know all about not having “the energy for a fight.” I think it comes down to personality and what God is telling you to do. I know that trying to persuade my friend wouldn’t work for me, so I put in her in God’s hands. Sorry if that is not helpful advice!
I can’t imagine having your confidences betrayed that way — I’m really sorry to hear what you’ve been through.
Could you clarify one comment you made? You said the scales fell off re “the church in particular and SGM in general.”
What do you mean by “the church.”
Welcome!
March 7th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Miss Bennett-
Love the screen name…I am an Austen fan too…not matter what Cas has to say! :-)
I understand not having the energy to fight. We still maintain some close contacts from our SGM church. They often come to us with questions or problems. I don’t know why, but I think there is a level of fear of really being honest in their SGM church (another topic for another day). I just keep telling them what I have experienced in SGM and what I have experienced out. I think it is good for SGMers to hear that there are other churches that are indeed Christian and that after one leaves SGM they can go on to live a healthy Christian life…even if it does take a while to recover from SGM. (It took me about 2 years.) I also have taken to studying the Scripture and Church History. I think many SGMers like to make excuses that “nobody’s perfect” or “Apostle is just a term” or “one case is not indicative of SGM” or a million other little phrases that they like to say. Then, I like to challenge them with Scripture or Church History and often they have no rebuttal because they are just repeating the party line. I like when this happens because it causes them to think and decide
March 7th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Thanks, Lynn for your welcome and encouragement. I meant “this local church.” We thought the problems we saw were specific to this church, not realizing that they were common issues in regards to SGM as a whole. I hope that makes sense.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
continuing….my daughter just submitted my comment for me
for themselves. Thinking is GOOD! WE are to love our God with all our heart MIND soul and strength. There is too little unique thought happening in SGM and I think it is a huge problem.
So, keep telling the truth, keep being you, keep loving and praying and seeking and learning.
Welcome to the site! God bless!
March 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Miss Bennet, (which Bennett are you, by the way — Lizzie?)
As soon as I asked you that question and hit “send”, it clicked in my mind what you meant!
I have such poor impulse control…
March 7th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Lizzie. My husband is Mr Darcy, of course. He just doesn’t have as much money.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Hi Miss Bennett,
Welcome and great post. Thank you very much for sharing. I have tried to reach out to some former friends who are still at the SG church I was at for 10 years. It has not been a very pleasant experience. They do not like discussing anything negative about SG. It is like I am toppling over their “sacred cow”. One person was open for a while, but I have not heard back from him in several weeks. The Lord has to be the one to open their eyes. I did not see most of these things while I was still in SG. The more we discuss things here, the clearer it all becomes.
It will be a fight unless the person is extremely vunerable to you and your insights. When you speak against anything in the SG church, they take it like you are speaking against God and HIS church. Until that mindset changes, it will be a fight.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
OK…..I love Jane Austen! And I am not afraid to say it no more!!!! lol ha ha ha!!!
I think SGMCas really does, she just doesn’t want to admit it!!! ha ha ha ha
Welcome Miss Bennett!!! Glad to have you on the blog!! Look forward to hearing more from you!
I am doing a little research on the FEAR topic, but have to clean an entire house, because tomorrow I plan to play hard!! So I will post later!
March 7th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Posted this earlier. I think it is most approprite:
Read this description of power structures within a typical “neo-charismatic” group:
Neo-charismatic groups are, by nature, strongly hierarchical. Somehow, the modern church has grasped (and refuses to let go of) the idea that a successful church is the one which has a strong leader with a strong support group. It is an idea that the apostate Catholic Church seized upon centuries ago and which they continue to practise today as popery. It is the overwhelming pattern of leadership dynamics within neo-charismatic churches and may be described as pyramids within pyramids.
Within a neo-charismatic group, one is likely to find the senior pastor, the man with the supposed initial vision from God. The senior pastor will command a small body of elders or advisors; men (and sometimes women) who will function to support the senior pastor accomplish his vision and ensure that the group is ruled and coached towards the fulfilment of their founder’s vision. Although the neo-charismatic groups are mostly independent operations, almost all claim some kind of allegiance to a larger ministry run by a neo-charismatic celebrity who assumes the role of a modern apostle; some of these apostles are even given to speaking with infallible authority to the groups under them.
Given that neo-charismatic groups are strongly hierarchical, have a heavy leaning towards authoritarianism and tend to teach doctrines that are not accepted by mainline churches, it is sometimes a little surprising that people flock to these groups in the numbers that they do.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Miss Bennett,
Hi, and welcome to the site! I’m glad you’ve decided to quit “lurking” and join us. :-)
By the way – I’m a big Jane Austen fan as well. So Jane-bashing is not an officially sanctioned activity on this blog. Ha!
I’ve actually found myself struggling with the very situation that you described. Although we were not involved for long at our SG church, we were there long enough to develop what I thought were some great friendships. Of course, after leaving, we found that basically none of those people tried to maintain contact. We weren’t “one of them” any more, after all!
I’m starting to think that in the long run, having the “scales fall off,” as you and others have put it, is something that pretty much happens through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit may use a well-placed word from one of us, perhaps.
[EDITED TO ADD: As I wrote that last sentence, it suddenly occurred to me - maybe we even have to be willing to lose our SGM friends' good opinions of us, so that the Holy Spirit CAN plant seeds in their minds. In the end, I guess we just need to speak out when we feel strongly led to do so, and let the chips fall where they may, even if it might mean an end to a friendship.]
March 7th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Miss Bennet (Mrs. Darcy would be more accurate — what, are you trying to be all liberated or something?!?! Have you bought into the Feminine Mistake???)
LOL
Well, you can see that you are in good company here!
Kris re 17,
A perfect example of how this blog helps people (you)!
March 7th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
And by “good company” I meant “people who know what it’s like to have SG friends,” not “liberated women.”
March 7th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Under the following quote is a link to a very interesting article on how far some churches will go with church discipline:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120061470848399079.html?mod=djemITP
March 7th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Lynn, I stand corrected.
Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. I am going to sit on my reply to her for a few days. We were super-close and very honest with one another prior to our departure. True honesty is a rare commodity in SGM, I think. (As High Church says, another post for another day.) But, as Dennis aludes to, I am not sure if my opinion holds as much sway as it once did.
I just can’t stand by and hear how great her church is. Ick!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Lynn,
Sometimes I feel a little selfish, because I really have learned so much from everyone who posts here. Whether they’re cordial or hostile, each comment has helped to form another piece of my SGM mosaic. I almost laugh when I think back to my very first posts, back when I figured that even if nobody ever saw this site, at least there’d be somewhere online where people could get a slightly different perspective on SGM.
At that point, I would never have dared utter even the word “cult-like” in reference to our Sovereign Grace church. And as I said, I still have a problem with the word “cult,” because I think there almost have to be majorly unorthodox and false doctrines in place (such as the Mormons’ belief in extra-biblical revelations and their “prophet” Joseph Smith) to warrant that label. I would agree with Dennis that it is scary and too risky to use the term against our own brothers and sisters in Christ.
Yet…well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
And…for another cliche…”Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”…
While I still believe that many Christians within SGM will continue to be happy and have good Christian fellowship and have their spiritual life flourish under SGM’s mostly Biblical teachings, frankly, I am afraid for the people who have no awareness of how SGM’s policies and practical doctrines differ from the rest of Christianity. For instance, during our time at our SG church, a young man came to know the Lord. His conversion was dramatic and an absolute joy to behold, and it was wonderful to get to know him and watch how much truly Godly wisdom he gained in such a short time as a believer.
Yet I was very troubled when, through various remarks he made in our care group, it became obvious that he thought “courtship” was a requirement for his Christianity. And nobody ever bothered to tell him otherwise. They all sat there and listened to the same remarks that we heard him make, and nobody ever suggested to him that the courtship system was just a little cultural thing that many within SGM thought was “wiser” than dating. No, they were content to let him labor under the notion that “real Christians” pursued courtship only.
So the people who come to SGM with solid, Bible-based Christian “schema” may fare perfectly well there. Likewise, those who grew up in solid SGM families and who have been able to navigate the narrow confines of their families’ SGM expectations without growing frustrated or disillusioned will probably also continue to do fine.
But the folks who come to SGM from the outside, with little prior knowledge of the things of the Lord, or the folks for whom SGM’s cultural requirements are not working…well, those are the people I now almost want to rescue. I feel for them. They could very well face some faith-shattering difficulties down the road.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Hi Mrs. D/Miss B! (I know; there are just TOO many great Jane Austen characters to choose from! *Insert girly giggle.*)
Welcome to the site! I’m sorry; I just can’t write out either name your chose for yourself in your identity crisis. It would just come dangerously close to granting tacit consent to Jane Austen. (Actually, I can only assume from the other chicky responses that you derived your clever monikers from one of her masterpieces that should really be their own genre. But I suffer from too deplorable of a lack of curiosity to google it.) HOWEVER, I do want to extend you the warmest welcome! THAT I can agree with my dear friends on.
Okay, I don’t have time to add a comment of any value. (Do I ever really?) but I have to weigh in on the Jane Austen “issue” since it’s clear my friends here have TOTALLY abandoned me while I’m still recovering from the last controversy I stirred up here! Yeesh! I see how it is now … I see.
Now here’s my perspective on Jane Austen movies since we were just talking about being so tolerant toward dissenters. Besides the fact that they’re clearly a result of Eve’s sin in the garden and anti-depressants should be dispensed outside the door in theaters, I just don’t “get” them. Granted, I’ve only sat through about one and about an eighth of another (give or take a few mins). But I really feared that I might just slip into a catatonic state and never recover. It was a health issue really.
But I extend much grace to all of my estrogen-enriched friends who derive pleasure from gathering ‘round a box of tissues in their nighties for some scintillating girl time! For me, I’d rather sit through a Sovereign Grace service. At least they’re shorter … And I wouldn’t offend anyone by leaving early. Heh.
Cas, the Fearless Dissenter
“Bow to no [wo]man.”
March 7th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Kris-
you said:
But the folks who come to SGM from the outside, with little prior knowledge of the things of the Lord, or the folks for whom SGM’s cultural requirements are not working…well, those are the people I now almost want to rescue. I feel for them. They could very well face some faith-shattering difficulties down the road.
I wish you would have come to rescue me!!! I remember initially thinking that things were so strange and “off”. I also remember being treated like I was some sort of half-wit because I didn’t understand how “things were done”. Those initial hesistations should have been it for us, but we pressed on in full assurance that we had found “the church”. I wonder what I would have thought had this blog been available back then. I think I would have realized that I was sensing something that really was wrong and I would have hit the door.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
In trying to stick to the tread topic, I found a few little links that might help…might not:
And I wanted to make sure our friends in Wikipedia get a few gazes with the first one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_fear
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Religion/fear_and_love.htm
http://www.etpv.org/2004/aaim.html
This last one is lengthy, and I figured Dennis,Exintern, Theo, and High Church will help gather up tons of good stuff with all their research on church history. I so appreciate all of you! I have done a little research on church history in teaching it to my children, but not to the extent you guys have.
I remember once reading a book entitled ” The Witch of Blackbird Pond” by Elizabeth George Speare. It is a historical fiction, but is about an orphaned girl named Kit being raised in the Connecticut Colony by her stern Puritan relatives and community. The back of the book says that “she feels like a tropical bird that has flown to the wrong part of the the world, a bird that in now caged and lonely. The only place where Kit feels completely free is in the meadows, where she enjoys the company of the old Quaker woman”….who has been labeled by all these lovely Puritans as a witch. After Kit befriends her, she is faced with suspicion, fear, and anger and eventually she herself is accused of being a witch.Sound familar…anyone????Except in SG’s case you are now days just labeled a gossiper, slanderer, or rebellious.
I remember reading this book when all the Puritan books were really being pushed at our SGM church. This book really bothered me, as I saw another paradigm, different from everything I had heard about the Puritans from my SGM leaders. So I naively went right up to one of the Apostolic leaders and told him about this book, and asked him if things like that ever bothered him in his spirit. He said, that he really did not know that much about the history, but that just like any good thing, there are always people who take it to an extreme and misuse their teachings. Looking back on it now, I think how ironic!!!
By the way, the old Quaker woman in the book, is a dear sweet old widow who loves the Lord, and is terribly lonely and shunned by the whole community. This book ripped my heart out, because I saw similar behaviors and attitudes of self-righteousness and judgement amongst much of the leadership at my SGM church. And fear was present throughout the entire congregation, as it was within the community in this book. People were so brainwashed, and believing that they were the holy ones, as this dear Quaker woman was being treated like a sinful leper by all of them. All of them, except for Kit, who was willing to think outside the box and with her heart.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
thread not tread….don’t tread on me!!! lol
March 7th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
SGm CAs-
Oh my! You have me laughing out loud, tears in my eyes. You really must detest JA! You are willing to sit through a SG service over a JA flick…although I think more tissues may be required for that than the 6 hour A&E version of Pride and Predjudice! Especially if CJ is preaching. :-)
March 7th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
that is thread not tread!!! Don’t tread on me..lol
March 7th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
SGM Cas, please know that I love reading your comments. You seem to be able to articulate things so well. My husband and I have really learned so much from you.
I had no recollection that you were the one who didn’t like Jane!
That said, thanks for the welcome. And a disclaimer, I have made it a habit/vow not to watch the movies. Hollywood always trashes good literature. I enjoy the books. So, the movies that you’ve seen may have been total mind-melting, insipid things. I don’t know. I did succomb to watching the two different versions of Pride and Prejudice (where live the Bennetts and Darcys). For the record, the newer one is not very close to the book at all.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
SGMCas,
You are making me cry with laughter on this end too!!! Please stop!!! OK…..will all the Jane Austen fans please step forward!! Come on, Dennis, I know you must be one!! How about you, Theo????
March 7th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
How about Brent AND CJ?
hehe.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Freeda,
I can change my screen name to Fitzwilliam (Darcy) if it would help prove my (albeit reluctant) appreciation for Austen!
Philip
March 7th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Hi all,
I am embarrased to say this, but I do not even know who Jane Austin is. Is she a charachter from a famous movie?
March 7th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Dennis,
Don’t even ask, run while you can dude, you’ll never escape once you read one book with your wife!
Now that’s a cult!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I just looked up Jane Austen on Wikipedia and found out she was a British novelist. I never read novels, and that’s why I am in the dark here. Just out of curiosity, how does this all relate to our SGM discussion?
March 7th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
And it doesn’t even end with watching the 6 hour A&E version of Pride and Prejudice, next you find yourself immersed in the world of Anne of Green Gables!
It’s a long, dark road brother.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
You go, Philip!!! You’ve come out of the closet…we Jane Austen fans welcome you all the more!!
It’s ok, Dennis, we understand, you are busy doing research for all of us. Jane Austen is a very famous author who wrote the book Pride and Prejudice, and many like it.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
SGM Cas,
Yes, we are all guilty here of “shooting the wounded” by ganging up on you! Lol.
And I’m sorry, honey, but if you don’t like Colin Firth-as-Darcy in his dripping wet shirt, you need to hand in your woman card!
Miss Bennet,
Don’t change your name on my account! I was being cheeky! You’re here to get free of other people’s rules, so feel free to be a Miss if you must. hehe
Kris,
How on EARTH could you feel “selfish” when you’ve done an amazing thing here?? Not only did you provide a much-needed forum, you’ve worked so hard to keep it God-pleasing and as calm as possible! Not everyone could do that! I often think of the hours you spend not only reading our responses but also in deliberating if and when to step in and stem rising emotions. You’ve done an incredible work here, and any help you derive from our responses are more than well deserved.
My .002 cents (inflation, ya know) !
March 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Dennis,
It doesn’t relate!! We are just all reminding ourselves to laugh and have a good time. You know, we can’t be too serious, or people might think we are bunch of Puritans!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Phillip:
THAT was funny!
See, now you’re laughing at our jokes and making some of your own!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Dennis-
I don’t know that she necessarily relates, but much of her novels’ contents are about courtship and marriage…the good ol’ fashioned way! :-) I think her versions of the two are probably held as ideal by many Christian young women. Even though I enjoy her work, I admit that it is fiction and necessarily something to be emulated (esp. since 18th century British culture and 21st century American culture are VASTLY different). One thing that my pastor says that I love is that there has never been a golden age since the fall in the garden of Eden. I think this is good for Christians to remember…we don’t have to copy Jane Austen to be holy or Josh Harris for that matter. We need to emulate Christ!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I have your back, SGMCas! I can’t stand Austen…or anything else Victorian, for that matter.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Phillip-
You must have daughters!!! :-)
March 7th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
OOOPPPS! I meant “not necessarily emulated!”
March 7th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I agree with Lynn,
“How on EARTH could you feel “selfish” when you’ve done an amazing thing here?? Not only did you provide a much-needed forum, you’ve worked so hard to keep it God-pleasing and as calm as possible! Not everyone could do that! I often think of the hours you spend not only reading our responses but also in deliberating if and when to step in and stem rising emotions. You’ve done an incredible work here, and any help you derive from our responses are more than well deserved.”
Not to mention all the many emails you are having to address and consider behind the scene. You truly are remarkable! Thank you again and again!!!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
ExI-
So, no love for those gushing Victorian hymns??? :-)
March 7th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
ExI-
So no love for those gushing Victorian hymns??? :-)
March 7th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Miss Bennett: Thank you! Your story perfectly illustrates why I blogged my own reasons for leaving. I wanted there to be a record “out there” in case someone like you had been led to believe (by SGM leadership, members, etc.) that yours was the only situation like this. It means a lot to me to know that what I wrote has been helpful.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I have seen some of the Anne of Green Gables films with my daughter. Are they by Jane Austen?
March 7th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Different author, but usually fans of one like the other.