SGM Survivors

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome my wife (especially!) and I have received.

I don't know that there will ever be a need to tell our story. It wouldn't surprise or help anyone, unless they're still drinking the kool-aid. Time will tell. Speaking for myself, what would probably drag specifics out of me would be a SGMer (like good old Jesse) coming on here with his attack/denial/contradict himself manner. If I was around when he was posting, I would have ate his lunch (in Christian love, of course). I know the kid, btw.

Here's what I'll say about most of the SGM pastors I know-they not only dispense the koolaid, they're drunk on it. The party line is deeply ingrained in them, which is why their reactions are so predictable. Also, don't forget the system they're in. Their job security is tied to their compliance. If Tomzac can get the boot, and Brent can be persuaded to leave the A Team, who's secure? Only CJ, and those with his blessing.

This does not excuse any of their actions. Job security, especially for someone who feels that God has called them to be a pastor, should be the last thing on a leader's mind. Paul addressed this clearly in Acts 20.

"God called me to do this, but I can't do it without SGM". I'll never wrap my head around that contradiction.

Anyway (I'm on a roll here-time to pull up)-thank you again.

Musicman, CharlesFinney349, HighChurch, Gamaliel, Scott, and Kris...

Thank you, all, for your very warm welcome!

I (unlike my dear husband, as he stated in his post above! ) have a lot more to say regarding SGM and their unbiblical tactics. The well runs very deep indeed... I'll save those comments for another day, though.

I would also like to thank everyone from the very bottom of my heart for stepping out and sharing your stories here. I know how hard that must have been for you! Please know that, through sharing your experiences, God has used each and every one of you to help me get past the hurt and bitterness and loneliness I felt post SGM. I still have issues to deal with, but it's getting better and better each and every day!

Thank you soooo much.... and if it matters I reposted my initial comments in the Detox area.


also I want to pick up in this comment by High Church. ….



I just wanna puke too…. What kills me is how self affirming their declarations of humility. It is a beautiful relationship the leaders get to define what humility looks like—ie emulate CJ’s method and manner—and then draw attention to how much they follow their own standard. What a job, you get to define the standard of evaluation and then get to impose that standard on one and all. And then I get to dismiss any criticism as being fundamentally sinful because it isn't humility!

Gotta love it!

I need to tell a little of my own story - just a little. I have posted on this board and blog for months but have never described my personal experiences with SGM much until now.

I was at CLC for years and was at one time in a place of service in the church where I had regular contact with the pastors. Several years ago I refused to confront a fellow CG member for gluttony because I believed I was guilty of the same sin. My pastor pointed out my lack in leadership qualities and removed me from my place of service and I was slowly marginalized. I don't know if the pastors actively decided to marginalize me, but it happened. That is when I discovered you can "fly under the radar" if you are not a potential leader.

At CLC there is a whole society of marginalized people that need encouragement. Flying under the radar, I was free to encourage and care for these people without pastoral involvement. I have tried to give myself to befriending the drug addicts, the sexually immoral, the mentally unstable, the impulsive risk-takers. For whatever reason many of them were not helped by pastors and I just couldn't let them slide into oblivion. It has been heart-wrenching and fulfilling at the same time. I pray God will be glorified in the results.

Hi SGMsingle,

Thanks for sharing. What a wonderful ministry you have discovered! Flying under the radar to help those who don't fit the mold- it almost makes me want to go back to do the same!

There were those in our church who struggled as you described, but as home group leaders, we were too focused on the people who better fit the PDI mold to really be of any help to them. Boo!

I remember one time a pastor not with PDI/SGM came to visit our church. He made the observation that our family of churches had an interesting focus or goal - pastor-making, or raising up and training leaders. He called it an "elder factory." Now this is not necessarily a bad thing, but if you couple it with the controlling leadership style that is taught and expected of all the pastors made (seemingly), then you have a problem. We were taught that our pastor loved everyone in the church, but was only able to invest in a handful of relationships, like Jesus with the twelve disciples. We were to model this in our home groups. Again, not a bad thing. But when your goal is raising up leaders, then you tend to mostly choose relationships where you see leadership potential. As we know, PDI/SGM leadership must fit a certain mold. What happens to those in the church who don't fit? Who is looking out for them? I know of several dear, struggling, DIFFERENT folks who stumbled into our church and eventually left, unhelped. God forgive us.

But what IS a pastor anyway? Aren't they the ones with who care for the sheep? The ones who shepherd the flock with kindness and patience? Who have Jesus' heart to leave the 99 and go after the odd sheep? Is it really pastors that are being made?

Now for the disclaimer. I always feel compelled to disclose that our experience with PDI was a long time ago and things could be different now. It is possible in the many years that have passed, that some of the churches' pastors could be operating in a more grace-oriented, New Testament way. I really, really hope so, but I'm becoming less optimistic.

Welcome also (a little late) to In His Grip and I Survived!

Oh Lord, have mercy. This explains a lot.
I feel sick.

Yep!




Me too, Ellie... me too!

Yup, not feeling so good myself. It is true in my case that we were victims, so to speak, of PDI abuse, but we also dispensed some ourselves before we saw the light. We went back to the ones we wounded, but there were a few we lost track of. With no way of contacting these folks, I have to hold onto the the Truth that the Lord can redeem in their lives too, taking that which was meant for harm and turning it for good. The hardest example for me to think about is a man who was deeply wounded and turned away from the Lord entirely. And he didn't do anything wrong; he simply did not fit the mold and had some different thoughts about life.

But...

I know My Redeemer Lives! He is my Hope. And I pray for those who have left the faith, that He will bring healing and restoration. Dear Lord, let that not be the end of their story with You!

ISS, you were deceived, do not accept condemnation. Just keep on doing what you're doing - talking to the people God is leading you to speak with.

http://retrofited.blogspot.com/2007/06/ ... eader.html

I just found a neat blogsite, the posting made me cry...and the author's postings in the comments section are pretty good, too.

I'm going to do some more reading there.

My name and why.

I should have done this a few posts ago… but hey… here I am…

I am going to tell one and all my name. Here is why. CJ loves to dismiss the anonymous critique as cowardly. And what Pope CJ says is what everybody else believes.

Fine… I am many things but coward is not one of them. There are many reasons to dismiss my commentary. I am scathing and unapologetic. I am an irreverent and unruly satirist. I am a Deleterious Problem Child with very own “Agenda.” (Thank you sooo much robin boysvert I love that name. >snicker<) I even sin on occasion.

My name is John Immel. I attended PDI/CLC from roughly 1991 till about 1997 to 1998 ish. I wrote a very condensed, rather terse, evaluation of the then PDI/CLC and distributed 5 or 6 copies that I gave the unfortunate title Blight in the Vineyard. Leaders at PDI/CLC/SGM got three copies and Larry Tomczak got number four and I honestly don’t remember who got the others. (If you have those copies hang on to them they will be collector’s items.) Somewhere around 98 I decided to expand/rewrite Blight in the Vineyard and I finished the Forward of that edition sometime in 2000 according to my own signature. That time I made somewhere between 20 and 40 copies and let it be generally known that I didn’t care how often it was recopied and past around. I made sure that a fair number of Montgomery County Maryland Church Leaders had copies. A few responded to me, most Pastors I never heard from. (Shame on them… and maybe later I will explain why I say that)

So here is my reason for telling you all this information. This is the one concession to their criticism that I will entertain. I will never make my commentary from behind the veil of anonymity. They can dismiss me for a multitude of reasons—they have shown themselves rather adept at that already. But cowardice is not one of those things. I’m a big boy who can speak for myself and say what I mean and mean what I say.

Now… for you all Sovereign Grace Survivors …

Please, I want you to hear me.

Many of you are new to the idea of even THINKING that PDI/CLC/SGM leaders are wrong, let alone have much comfort at voicing your objections in public. I understand why you want the freedom to vent without the back lash. Good for you. Stay there. Let yourself heal. Let yourself read what has happened to others and find your vindication and your healing in their words. Be invisible in God’s grace and know you are protected. You are on the road to recovery. Be at peace.

My choice to make myself plain is NOT a gauntlet for anyone else. Do as you like as God leads and as you like.

As for PDI/CLC/SGM … heheheh… the Deleterious Problem Child is back. Hhahaha a ahahahah a’ah’ahahahahahah

CharlesFinney349
AKA John Immel

Dear John, (I always wanted to write that... )

You have my respect. I applaud your courage. You know your posts mean alot to me and I always look forward to what you have to write. If a book is ever published I want an autographed copy. Thanks for being here and I hope to hear more.

Peace my brother...