SGM Survivors

and another one:

http://digitalnewspapers.libraries.psu. ... Id=Ar01000

I wonder what the Catholic church thinks of CJ Mahaney's departure from the faith...one article I read there said CJ attended St John's Catholic Church...how in the world did he end up a Calvinist? I think the switch to Reformed Theology was key, but not sure why he/they switched so abruptly.

Going back to the TAG days, Mahaney never advertised his Catholic roots like Tomczak did. I don't believe he worked closely with the Catholic Church like Tomczak did, e.g. getting the Catholic Church's endorsement of his autobiography.

Thus it isn't that much of an issue.

I never got the feeling that CJ was even a practicing/believing Catholic before being saved in a cloud of pot smoke.

Don, do you feel like explaining what you mean by this and how it's relevant?

Gamaliel, I'm not Don, but I think he means that it's obvious by C.J.'s own testimony that he was not a practising Catholic. I'm not sure the whole Catholicism thing really had much of an effect on C.J. if he just grew up nominally Catholic. Many many people grow up in technically Catholic homes without it having much effect on them, save a guilt complex... I don't think the whole controlling structure of SGM is really coming from Catholic roots in particular, but from a more general root of legalism that has infultrated many Protestant churches just as thoroughly as any Catholic church.

Gamaliel,

you have heard CJ's own testimony right? about him liking to smoke pot? He said in the Cross Centered Life that the first time that he heard the gospel, that he was smoking pot.

CJ has a very impressive testimony of God's mercy toward him. I remember him stating publicly that he heard the gospel from a friend, while high on marijuana: the Holy Spirit revealed CJ's need for Christ, even as he indulged in a mind-altering drug.

He also ascribes to God's mercy the fact that, when facing charges in court, not long after his hearing the gospel (I no longer remember the exact charges), the judge let him off rather than impose a sentence.

These experiences form, I believe, a big part of his feeling that no matter his current condition, he is doing "much better than I deserve."

I agree, Julie. Legalism has been with us since the beginning. Satan uses anything he can to come between a believer and Jesus, even if it is the believer himself.

OK. I guess I was just a little irritated by what seems like rhetoric that might be trying to discount in some ways CJ's conversion. But I'm a poor perceiver, anyhow... I'll keep quiet.

Hi, Gamaliel. No offense taken. For the record, I would never make fun of any believer's conversion experience; I was speaking literally when I made the reference to "pot smoke," but shouldn't have assumed everyone here knows of CJ's conversion experience.

As others have indicated it appears Mahaney was more of a "cultural" Catholic than one practicing.

This wasn't the case with Tomczak. He wasn't just a "cultural" Catholic.

That's true, but his testimony is that - despite his Catholic connection - he wasn't saved until he encountered God for real in a little Black pentecostal church, one evening when he ducked into its building to escape the rain. He recognized the real presence of God and was convicted of his need for a Savior.

BTW, I don't think that SGM's hierarchical structure and heavy-shepherding came at all from the RC Church. By the mid-to-late 70s, CJ and Larry were both aligned with the Florida group of charismatic leaders (Baxter, Simpson, Basham, Prince, ?) who devised the Shepherding Movement in order to counter the total lack of discipline and order within the charismatic revival. They obviously went too far in this, but the young leaders of GOB/CLC joined in enthusiastically. (Later Baxter and others repented of their Shepherding teachings and the hurt they caused others.)

Hi Don,

I think you are right on the money. I never saw any RC influence at SG either. The affiliation with others in the sheperding movement makes much more sense.