The Documents
July 7, 2011 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
Here is a link to the documents that apparently brought about C.J. Mahaney’s temporary leave of absence from his leadership role at Sovereign Grace Ministries:
http://www.scribd.com/sgmwikileaks
© 2011, Kris. All rights reserved.
So did JH know that these had been leaked? Is that why the warning about the internet in the CLC letter?
Wow!
Don’t have time to read and digest this at all right now, let alone sufficiently or properly, but, wow!
I love whoever is providing such documentation!
Fly :goodpost :clap
Methinks SGM is very aware of these documents. Hence the letter informing everyone of CJ stepping down for a period of time. Very telling that Dave Harvey has been appointed interim president, donchathink? SGM has always been at the top of the game of spinning truth. And very telling that CJ is already planning his triumphant return to the top position of the corporation… does that really sound like a humble(d) man?
Just sayin’…
This is gonna be fun to watch!
The damage-control/spin machine better have a hyper-drive speed.
I would guess that they are already trying to kick it into high speed!! And we all know that traveling at high speed can be very dangerous… :wink:
As I’m making my way through these documents, I find myself blown away by the idea that the things so many of us have been saying over and over again – things that so many SGM defenders have attempted to deny – were being documented by other “apostles” well before this site or any of the others ever came to be.
SGM defenders, what do you have to say for yourselves?
All of you who kept defending CJ’s lack of formal accountability – can you admit that you were wrong all along?
To all survivors –
As you have noticed, we are seeing a lot of new folks around these parts. I’m asking from my heart for you to try to understand where they are – just imagine your reaction had this happened when you were still in SGMville.
Let’s all take a deep breath, wrap our arms around our brothers and sisters that are in pain, and help them through this.
Welcome to all of you – pull up a chair and join in if you so desire. It may not be the most comfortable place right now, but it grows on you. :welcome
I see no way that SGM can continue.
Absolutely NO WAY!
They would have to CLEAN HOUSE!!
Who could they trust?
Wow, starting to read through, it brings up some other issues/mistruths. One being in the beginning talks about CJ being not on board with 2 services, very hard to talkt o about, etc. Howver, i was at CLC, and the way it was presented by Josh himself was that CJ was compelelty on board with 2 services and thought it was a good idea. This is not at all how it reads in these documents.
This –
Not news to myself or many on this blogs, yet a wake up call to all those that have spent any portion of their lives emulating and defending CJ.
As for the SGM polity, it all revolves around not tempting, or frustrating CJ’s “forward momentum.” There should be no reason to keep this twisted perspective of church governance in place.
My sister, who is not part of SGM but has followed the story, says:
“I’m imagining CJ working at Home Depot with an orange apron mixing paint. Although he’s not worthy of Home Depot. Those are good, honest workers. That would be demeaning to Home Depot.”
I’m sorry, Guy… I’ll try to restrain myself.
He might do well in the paint department though. He’s got a handle on the white wash.
Guy,
I was just getting ready to comment that my heart goes out to all SGMers today. Some may not believe me, but it’s true. I’m praying for them all.
They have NEVER been the “enemy.”
BTW Part one page 127
CJ has millions in savings and retirement. There will be no Home Depot employment.
He thrives off of being the top dog, loosing his position will cut more than any financial loss.
Guy, I absolutely agree with your post #7.
Hugs to all of our SGM brothers and sisters. We know it isn’t easy what you are going through. We have all been there and are there now.
Last week I mentioned that I had a feeling that God was going to remove the blinders from our SGM family members. I felt that it could either be done slowly, in a dim room or I feared that it might happen with a sudden removal in a bright space. I prayed that it would be slowly in a dim room as I knew what it was like to be in the bright light, and it ain’t easy.
I am praying for you all. Jesus loves you so much! He WILL get you through. We are all here to tell you that.
In His love,
Stunned
A Kindred Spirit – your #14
:amen
Carole,
I’ve always viewed SGMers (the innocent sheep ones, not the liars, abusers, etc.) as loved ones that needed a “good hard shaking.”
And a few have needed a good ‘ol fashion butt whipping. :wink:
Despite my tart comments about CJ, I still love and respect the people and the pastors in my old SGM church. Like Guy said, if you’re new here and you are in an SGM church, and your head is still reeling from all of this, pull up a chair and hang in there with us for a little while. We’re a little cranky right now, but we’ve got a lot in common with you. We want to see justice done and the wounded made whole. Many of us still have family who are members in SGM churches, as well, and we wish the best to all of you.
interstingly, reading this document gives me more faith in SGM than ihad before, becuase at least the other peopel saw this stuff. Wish they had done something before now, and had handled it biblically (1tim5) but it is intereating to see that they saw some of our concerns, even theologically. thought it was interesting htat many of them criticised cross centered life becuase it was too cross centered and didnt focus on resurection. That is something many here have been saying, and that sort of gives me hope in those people.
My mind boggles. How can these men have seen such things up close, but publically acted like CJ was the man to follow? I feel more betrayed than ever.
“C.J.‘s Blackmailing of Larry Tomczak” is the title of a section starting on Page 141 of http://www.scribd.com/doc/59533268/Part-3-Concluding-Remarks
It’s so explosive that it spells the end of CJ’s public ministry. Can anybody disagree with me?
Un- maybe he doesn’t need the income from Home Depot, but the experience there might be a little bit humbling? That’s a good thing, isn’t it? Maybe that should be an assignment given by his review board to go work there for a year. It might give him a little sympathy for how the common man or woman lives. Maybe he could even write a book about it as a sequel to the one on humility. And he does have a very nice smile!
I haven’t read all the documents.
I’m really struggling with Brent.
Brent damaged **SO MANY** people! You have NO IDEA!! I’m sure Canary, and others, share my sentiment.
So is there any documentation of what was alleged earlier about Mahaney covering his son’s sin? This is where it was alleged that Mahaney and other CLC Students were caught smoking pot. Rather than be expelled Mahaney’s son transferred to another school for a year.
Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
And at the same time, way too believable.
Reading, praying, and pondering. I’m grateful for whoever posted these documents.
I don’t know if I’ll ever have time to read all of it. So much to read. However, I do feel that sgm members are entiled to these.
Kris,
How did you get these documents, if you don’t mind me asking?
Putting burdens on others that they themselves would not carry.
Lynn –
I will answer for Kris. Trust me, there has been no “deep diving” or “investigatory work” taking place. The documents that have been divulged have been freely provided by individuals that are sick and tired of what has been going on.
With this kind of sin coming to light that C.J. Mahaney committed I wonder how C.J. could even suggest the possibility of his return to SGM as the leader? This is really serious stuff that Mahaney withheld. If he did just some of what is indicated (like the blackmailing) then it should be a long time before he is allowed to go back into ministry.
As Mahaney one time use to quote from the OT: Your sin will find out out.
@Steve240,
Let’s leave Mahaney’s son out of this. He grew up in this environment. He’s a young kid. If he did smoke pot, he did something stupid. Let him be a kid and learn from his mistakes. (I’m sure we did all did stupid things that we don’t hashed out on a web site.) His father on the other hand is fair game… :)
Wow. Guy, you’re right. If this is a big deal to those of us who have already left, imagine what it is to those who are still there. I haven’t read all the documents yet but this is probably the tip of the iceberg. Maybe these ones seem to paint some of the men involved in a good light, but once you start something like this others will come forward with more damaging info. It’s probably the beginning of the end for them all but some of them may be able to spin it somehow.
Feels like it’s not real.
I’ve been thinking of sweet little “a” this past week.
I haven’t seen her post for a very long time. If anyone knows her, I think she may be blessed to know of these recent events.
Willie, hope you see this since the comments are closed on the last thread. I certainly didn’t mean to offend you and really was just sharing what probably would have been my response if I was still there. You don’t sound like the average SGMer or maybe I was an under average SGMer. Glad there’s people like you around and I know there’s many more. God Bless.
Michelle, I don’t think anyone is upset at CJ’s son for smoking pot. It’s the lying and cover-up and special treatment with which the adults in his life have behaved. No one is going to hold it against him if he did smoke pot. My gosh, CJ talks about how he did that all the time when he was his son’s age. In this day and age it isn’t going to harm anyone’s reputation.
I agree with you. We have all done stupid things. (Did I make mine sound like it is past tense? I still do stupid stuff!)
It’s that CJ has had hundreds of pastors and homegroup leaders step down because THEIR kids did much lesser offenses. (And I don’t even think the pot thing is that big of a deal, though I never so much have had a regular cigarette to my lips.) In my opinion, brining up CJ’s son is not going to harm that poor kid at all. (If he were to be honest, I bet he’d be relieved that truth is coming out. Living a lie makes one all sick inside.) But bringing this stuff to light helps thousands who have been damaged by SGM and their treatment of some as “better” than others. Especially the way so many kids lived their lives in the totem pole system, which destroyed their faith.
Just my two cents. I hope you didn’t feel attacked. I am just saying I have a different view point, that is all.
If you wish to preserve these docs, I would encourage you to download and save them now before they disappear.
Expect the messages at your local franchise to be shorter this Sunday. The Elders have a lot of other reading to do this week. (Maybe they’ll finally figure out how to “do church” in only an hour and a half.
While Brent has his own failings in all of this, detailed note taking is not one of them.
It explains why so many of us have felt like we have been beating our head against a wall with no apparent results.
Many thanks to Guy, Kris, Jim and Carole. A safe place for the Survivors and a comforting place for Refuge. Not only for those that are here now, but those that are sure to find their way here.
As the Corporation’s model is flawed, so is their Franchise model. The Franchises have been restricted to selling only the goods shipped to them by Corporate. The teachings, structure and methodology.
Seems the North Coast Church was actually prophetic and discerning, seeing clearly. What happened to North Coast anyway? Where are they now?
This is not time for a “victory lap” but a time to realize that God has indeed heard and moved on our behalf. How humbling actually, that God has taken the time to hear us and give attention to our tears and neglect by those “over us”.
Remnant, I’ve been thinking about “a”, too. Wonder where she is & if she’s ok.
Stunned,
It will take more than that to offend me. Your point is well taken and I agree.
Working in politics I guess I am/was always sensitive to children whose parents were in the limelight. However, you very well proved that in this case it does deserved to be talked about.
Roadwork-
:word
Roadwork, got ’em. Downloaded them right away.
Michelle, I am glad I didn’t offend. I really do/did appreciate your heart for kids. I think it would be a nightmare to be the son of CJ Mahaney or most politicians. My heart really goes out to them.
I have a friend who committed all sorts of crimes when he was a kid, but politically connected Daddy always got him off. Poor guy never learned what it was like to face the same consequences the rest of us face. As a result, his life is shipwrecked. I mean a big old mess. If only his parents had been wise enough to let him stand before a judge of the land instead of always “protecting him” from himself. So sad.
The leaking of what was clearly a personal correspondence for the entire world to view is nothing short of gossip. I am far removed from this situation. I have never been a part of a SGM church. However, this is gossip. Plain and simple. Can you not see that?
It is also interesting to note that, as of now, none of the 42 who have commented have left their full name.
This is terrible. How is what you are doing bringing honor to Jesus Christ? How does publicly crucifying the character of another man, let alone a brother, bring any glory to Christ who was crucified while we were yet sinners?
Many who are outside of the church will be damaged by what you are spreading here. I hope you all can live with that.
I find myself feeling similar to how I felt about the LOST character, bad guy Ben Linus.
JRK –
Heard it before…got the tee shirt. Thanks for your correction.
TookAChillPill
Agreed. That smile would go a long way as a greeter @ WalMart
@A Kindred Spirit,
I cannot speak for Brent, but I do think it’s a difficult process to come out of such an insider role. And while he may have participated in some of the heavy-handed tactics and authoritarianism he may not have reached the place of processing all of that yet. If he hasn’t had time to process all of that yet he may not be able to acknowledge his participation either. I think it takes time, especially being such an insider for so long.
From what I can tell, he was mostly dealing with the betrayal, deceit, lies, and manipulation on a relational level with those he considered close friends. That’s what these documents represent. And dealing with that stuff on a personal level, which I can really relate to, is some really heavy stuff to deal with (as I’m sure many here can relate to as well). Moving to the next stage of examining the tactics, methodologies, etc. that you’ve participated in is a whole other level to process. Give him some time.
I think the amount of effort he put into these documents is admirable and took a lot of personal fortitude.
I, too, am hesitant to dredge up the kids of these people because, to be perfectly honest, they have been through hellish childhoods and don’t need our attention as well.
Their parents, however, are another story. After all the smug self-righteous attempts to justify their draconian methods, they spawn kids that do (fill in the blank.) Of that I will opine freely.
Also, Dave Harvey? Seriously, folks? And I could tell early on reading those documents that Harvey was worming his way into position. I still don’t know how a pile of bovine feces manages to smell like roses to some people but I digress.
Seriously, CJ is being replaced with his clone at best.
I know, firsthand, way too much about Dave fracking Harvey to understand why anyone would think seeing him at the helm would be considered an improvement.
Oh, and to John Russ Kreuter, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure out I am Debra Baker, *THE* Debra Baker. And, fwiw, your accusations of gossip are downright assinine considering the circumstances.
@John Russ Kreuter,
On the spectrum of communication across Slander (Telling a lie about someone in oder to defame the person), Gossip (Exposing someone’s flaws or misdeeds in order to disgrace the person), and Warning (Exposing someone’s misdeeds because it is necessary to protect others) this clearly falls in the later category.
What about all the people that the “ministry” of CJ has damaged?
Oh, and my last name is Russell.
Reading through the first document. Many opportunities for dismay. It seems like typical issues in dealing with relationships really, but blown all out of proportion, given far greater significance, by the SGM doctrines and practices. Unnecessarily over-spiritualized.
One particular thought of dismay jumped into my mind, “I was paying for these guys to have all these conversations, and to fly around the country to do so.” Silly thought I know, but still seems to me quite a waste. :^(