C.J. Mahaney Explains Why He’s Not Attending Any SGM Church During “Season Of Reflection”
August 13, 2011 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
C.J. Mahaney has apparently been gettng lots of concerned inquiries about his leave of absence. He put up a post yesterday to answer his fans’ questions. He said,
Many of you have kindly inquired about my leave of absence and how I will be spending my time during this season. Before I give you an update, I want to take this moment to thank each of you who have expressed your encouragement and your support in prayer.
Some of you have asked where I will be attending church during my leave. That’s a good question, as it’s not uncommon for pastors to take a leave in a church that is away from their home congregations, and this seems wise. During my leave of absence I will be attending Capitol Hill Baptist Church where Mark Dever is the senior pastor. After seeking counsel about this decision, I’ve concluded that this is the best place for Carolyn and me to receive care and counsel, to examine my life and leadership, and to consider my future during this season of reflection. I want to learn all I can during this season, and I pray that this time will benefit not only me but Sovereign Grace as well.
Mark and I have a rich history of friendship. I met Mark thirteen years ago and since then we have become very close friends. Mark has been not only a unique friend but also a mentor to me. I want to continue to take advantage of our friendship and his mentoring as much as possible during this time, benefiting from Mark’s unique pastoral wisdom and his gift of leadership. I am deeply grateful for his kindness and this opportunity. Actually, other than my wife Carolyn and those with whom I have served closely in Sovereign Grace Ministries, no one has had more influence on my life in the last ten years than Mark.
This leave of absence from my role as president of SGM will allow me the time necessary to process the valuable feedback I have received (and continue to receive), and to devote time to consider how I can best serve Sovereign Grace Ministries in the future. I’m seeking and benefiting from the advice of the SGM board and a number of leaders in the broader church—men I admire and who have become my friends over the years. I am approaching this task without making any assumptions or presuming upon any particular outcome. By God’s grace and the kindness of these men I am not lacking wise counsel as I seek to discern the will of God about how I might most effectively serve when this leave of absence concludes.
So for those who have kindly asked, I hope this information is helpful. I deeply appreciate the encouragement and support of so many at this time. I simply do not know how to adequately express this, but I trust you feel my deep gratefulness for your support. And I would appreciate your prayers, given the importance of the decisions before me and their impact on Sovereign Grace Ministries, the pastors I respect the most and the people of our churches for whom I have the deepest affection.
Finally, many of you know that this spring Dave Harvey, Jeff Purswell, and I were invited to speak at a pastors conference in the Dominican Republic. We are currently in Santo Domingo and the conference (Por Su Causa 2011) begins tomorrow morning. Please pray for us and for this very strategic conference. Earlier, during this same trip Jeff and I, along with Al Pino, visited the pastors that Sovereign Grace Ministries are honored to serve in Cuba. I was deeply humbled by the men and women I met, all of whom display remarkable joy and trust in God. I believe we will be sharing more about this trip on the Plant & Build blog later. In the meantime, please pray for our friends in Cuba and the Dominican Republic and for our friend Al Pino, who represents Sovereign Grace in our work with these remarkable saints. Please pray that Christ would be glorified in their midst and the gospel would go forth in these countries.
With gratefulness,
C.J.
Despite this explanation, several readers have written to Guy and me to express their ongoing confusion over C.J’s decision to ditch his own denomination family of churches during his “season of reflection.” Some have also expressed curiosity over the idea that C.J. would so quickly take the stage again as a speaker, despite the fact that there’s barely been time for SGM’s panel of “indendent” investigators to have begun their task, let alone issue a verdict.
Brent Detwiler has published a post about this topic on his own blog. You can view that post here.
I put this up yesterday as a comment, but I will post it again here for those who have written to ask what my thoughts are:
For me, the issue has nothing to do with whether or not C.J. is under church discipline at CLC. (Actually, I’m pretty sure that he is not under discipline right now…but I could be wrong.) I have a real problem with the idea that C.J. would go to another church at this time, because he is choosing an action that would not have been available to any other SGM leader in a similar situation, if the leader wanted to remain in good standing with his SGM church.
It’s simply NOT RIGHT that C.J. has options that other SGM pastors would not have.
It’s also simply NOT RIGHT that C.J. can change his song and dance about the “happiest place on earth” without at least getting up in front of his congregation – like a man – and explaining his change of heart to the people!
If C.J. now doesn’t actually think that CLC is the “happiest place on earth,” the Source of all that anyone ever needs for his Christian life, but has instead changed his tune and thinks leaders in the midst of church conflicts ought to be able to ditch their commitments and go wherever they feel they will be “better served” – well, that’s OK, but for God’s sake, C.J. needs to retract all his original teachings about the importance of having a come-hell-or-high-water commitment to one’s specific local church. C.J. needs to stand on that stage at CLC and explain exactly how his beliefs have changed. Then he needs to apologize to everyone who was made to feel like they had no other option but to hang in there and take their SGM lumps and NOT be able to run off to some other non-SGM congregation to be “better served.”
It’s NOT that a change of belief is wrong. It’s that SGM always always always does these changes without proper explanations, retractions, and apologies to those who were hurt by the original false beliefs and teachings.
Thoughts?
© 2011, Kris. All rights reserved.
BTW: Bill Patton is a gracious and godly gentleman and Covenant Fellowship should be hearing a seasoned, wise man like this from the pulpit.
Season,
As a down souther, I am dying to know what was said to cg leaders…don’t know if we are from the same church, but I am so disappointed in mine. Not in the inner circle, but please enlighten :)
Here is what was said… hope it works this time!
“We also wanted you to know that in light of the dialogue from Sunday’s meeting, we have concluded that it would be best to give more time for building faith before we have C.J. come to to preach. Thank you for your honest input that equipped us to make a well-informed decision.
C.J. is a man we have all benefited from, and whom we believe would bless the church greatly when he visits again. We look forward to the work of building faith for such a visit, and celebrating the power of the Gospel to redeem.”
“We also asked if the CLC pastors were speaking into your life.”
Exactly how does one do this?
Sounds like it might involve crystals and chanting.
Bring Bill Patton back as a worship leader – yay!!!
@Matt, am starting to sense the SGM-lingo, e.g. “serve.” E.g., “You’re being `served’ your papers” said the county Sheriff. “Here, you’re being “served” notice of an IRS audit,” said the IRS commissioner. “You’ll ‘serve’ 4 months in jail,” decreed the Judge.
@Seasonofevaluation, interesting post from your church leadership. I note that Brent’s first document has 22,469 hits as of today. Some folks are reading them. They warrant reading, rebuttal where needed, and thought.
Josh and all CLC pastors,
Check out what Jewel said in a previous post about Wycliff and how they handle sexual preditors like Mr. Adams. Why not fly some of those folks in to give a couple day training on how to handle sexual preditors in the church. What Wycliff does shows great respect to the victims, and also respect for the perp. and his family.
Then bring these guys back to teach at the Pastors College, because they seem to have wisdom in this area.
Wycliff would be willing to share with you, I bet.
Donald, you keep posting your thoughtful perspectives! Don’t let a meanie or two stop you from making your contributions here. :D
ExClcer, I thought of you as I saw the Redskins pic on the front page of the paper today. At least THAT organization is up to good things! :D
Yellow –
It’s the Flower Hill String Band – complete Facebook page online for the band and yes pictured in the photo’s is GS’s son playing in the band. Online there is 100% proof that Greg S. must know Mr Adams very very well, they have a gig frequently, schedule all online….but let’s hold off on specualting what Greg’s intentions are….he obviously is friends with David, and maybe he truly has found out new information, or a different twist, from these blogs and exCLCers story, and truly he could be heartbroken hearing details he never knew? I am sure Gary and John, if they did discuss any details of this scenario years ago, spun it all in a different light. Truly this blog may have presented an entiely different view to Greg, and being with friends with David, he may have a very intense desire to discover the truth….which he knows will only come from meeting with ExCLCer and Mom.
ExCLCer’s mom I will pray for you that God will show you what to do? It’s possible that God could be bringing truth to a pastor (Greg), and maybe this is another step in God shedding light on CLC/SGM – Maybe God has given Greg has an open heart to hear and understand, maybe this is also of God?
First time here. Member of CLC. When this first broke my DH asked “So what are we going to do?” (meaning are we going to stay or leave) my response was “Well, Joshua not CJ is my pastor. It is going to depend on what he does.” So far so good.
Obviously CJ just doesn’t “get it.” I am tired of all of this! I trusted this man. I believed he was a man of integrity. Now he leaves the what he has called “the dearest church on earth”, “the people he loves most” and his “Favorite Senior Pastor” who now has to lead with crickets chirping in the front row where the Mahaney’s used to sit. I thought we were a family, that family’s work out problems together. There have been other occasions when people have gotten into big embarrassing situations) and sin, legal problems, (nationally reported and blogged about) jail time (not speaking of “Mr. A” but others) They stayed, they worked through it and walked in humility and are respected members of the church. Where is CJ? Hiding. Don’t you think others wanted to hide when their sin became public? Of course but they didn’t.
The Mahaney boys would not have left without Daddy’s permission. I am praying for them and their families. With their departure I do not believe the Mahaney’s have any intention of returning. I (sort of) hope I am wrong.
Hey, D. Phillip Veitch(your old FB moniker) When are you getting your own blog? Nine posts in 3.5 hours is that a record for you? Do you just like the sound of your own typing? I also was a FB friend like Still@CLC4now. I also deleted you when I got tired of scrolling through dozens of your posts every day. Obviously you found a new forum. You had collected thousands of friends What happened? I looked for you on FB and couldn’t find you.
@seasonofevaluation #53: VERY interesting news .. are you saying that you attend a SGM church in the south; (are you a care group leader?); and are you saying your pastors decided NOT to have CJ come preach [presumably he was scheduled to stop by, maybe on his way back from Cuba?]
If so, I think that is HUGE! A SGM church cancelling a CJ-preaching date because of this scandal. Well done pastors of this unknown SGM church in the south…good for evaluating the situation and coming to your own convictions about them and making a [hard] decision. :clap
@60 – you have misinterpreted… The church has lost members and would continue to do so if he came so soon. The CGL expressed that to the pastors. The pastors decided to wait and “build faith” for the return of CJ. Its still gonna happen. CJ and the senior pastor are close. Too close for the pastor to see the issues objectively.
And just to clarify what I meant by “its still gonna happen”, I meant its still gonna happen, just later than sooner.
OOOPs my mistake. I guess in the time it takes me to type one post D. Phillip was able to post two more tines. That is eleven posts in four hours.
Thanks Yellow. We’ve spoken of “hypocrisy” through the evening and the posts. It appears that CJ played by another set of rules for a long, long time without accountability, as he advocated. This appears to be an autocrat living by his own rules without Elders or Oversight. So much for the Church. I wonder what Dr. Dever would make of all this. This exchange is from Mr. Detwiler is 12 Dec 2003. Detwiler’s departure or eviction was in the making by the beginning of 2004. Can one say, “Inbound rounds are coming!” It was a matter of time. He hung on till Jun 2009.
————–
Kenneth‘s Evaluation
“I received Kenneth‘s evaluation on December 12. He wrote the following,
‘I‘m not aware of correction he is receiving from others. [He] seeks input on selected topicsduring our monthly accountability times [which just began due to our correction]. [But] not from me in family/married life. Maybe others.’
I followed up with a phone call that afternoon. Here are some of the notes from myconversation with Kenneth. I sent them to you, Dave and Steve at the time.
–When correcting C.J. you have to be real precise for him to receive.
–This can be hard for men to do who are less gifted than C.J.
–Should be easier to bring things to him.
–Needs to grow in learning to listen carefully even if he thinks the person‘s perspective is wrong.
–Needs to listen when person is conveying a sense of something that is wrong buthaving a hard time being precise.
–Can exhibit a quickness and strength of response.
–Kenneth and Josh show a sense of deference [to C.J.] in their hearts but don‘t press issues.
–Neither Josh nor Kenneth raises these kinds of issues with C.J. That is, whether he receives correction humbly and is easy to confront or responds gently and kindly,not abruptly or harshly, when disagreeing with someone.
–C.J. not making aware of input from others, e.g., CLC pastors, apostolic team, Carolyn.
–Don‘t know if he is receiving correction.
–Kenneth assumes no one is bringing correction or things to him.
–Occasionally asks for input on parenting issues. Nothing on marriage.
–Input resolves around the effect of schedule or work around the home.
————
Grant‘s Evaluation
On December 13, Grant wrote the following in his evaluation,
`My primary concern for C.J. would be in the area of who is supposed to be caring for him? Perhaps this is taking place with you men on the apostolic team? We have tried numerous times to gettogether here over the past year but have not been able to make it happen. So care for he and Carolyn is not happening here unless there is something I am unaware of.’
That afternoon I followed up with a phone call. Here are some of the notes from my conversation with Grant. I sent them to you, Dave and Steve at the time.
–Can be in a meeting talking about a situation that C.J. is not involved in and he will hear some facts and be tempted to make conclusions or assumptions.
–At times C.J. can too quickly come to a conclusion without knowing all the facts, prematurely coming to conclusions or making assumptions.
–Grant is not aware of any correction C.J. is receiving from the apostolic team orothers. This issue has always been ongoing concern for C.J.
–Grant has raised his ongoing concern over the years that C.J. receives pastoral care.
–Grant is not aware of anyone raising any issues or concerns with C.J. in private.
–Grant believes they have a very limited view of what is going on in his life, a narrow window to look through, and limited opportunity for observation of C.J.
–Over past year, correction of C.J. and confession by C.J. has not happened at all there is no context for this to happen.
–Grant has assumed it is happening with the apostolic team.
–Thinks C.J.‘s self assessment may be such that he and Carolyn just don‘t require input.
Yellow said: “Check out what Jewel said in a previous post about Wycliff and how they handle sexual preditors like Mr. Adams. Why not fly some of those folks in to give a couple day training on how to handle sexual preditors in the church. What Wycliff does shows great respect to the victims, and also respect for the perp. and his family.”
The post you are referring to is #289 (A Message To SGM Survivors From GS And Covenant Life Church Pastors). I do sincerely hope that Josh, CLC pastors or SGM pastors read it – that was my heart’s intent.
I failed to mention that Wycliffe investigators contacted every known church while this pedophile was an adult to gather his history and to see what knowledge they had on him as well as references, old friends/acquaintances. That was very eye-opening. In addition, they also met with his current pastor(s) to discuss the case and work out a plan to have him in church safely (ie, must always have an escort to the bathroom, always with an assigned accountability partner when around children).
I don’t know how Wycliffe got to the place to be so effective in dealing with this sex abuse cases, but it was clear that this was not the first time as they have a staff set up precisely for this purpose. I wonder if they would be willing to train others. It would be interesting to find out.
More from Mr. Detwiler. Some CLC Pastors had issues with CJ for a long time. Presently, when CJ says he’s leaving CLC for another church, he has no accountability. Whatever he taught about accountability groups appears to be another expression of historic hypocrisy. Grant, Kenneth, and Joshua have been in this for quite some time. Brent had a front-row seat and was ahead of the power curve. Brent wrote and sent this to CJ months and months ago. The personal pronoun, “you,” is Brent addressing CJ. (Jim posted earlier that CJ’s reign is over, but he’ll return to SGM with fewer salutes–that’s a thought-worthy proposition.)
——————————–
“C.J. Not Transparent with Pastors at Covenant Life Church
I also talked to Joshua on December 14. His comments echoed Grant‘s and Kenneth‘s. He shared different examples of self righteousness, sinful judgments, and pride in your [CJ’s] life. For example, the difficulty he had in talking with you about starting two services at Covenant Life Church. After talking to Joshua, Kenneth and Grant; I wrote you, Dave and Steve the following.
`―In my opinion, we should take some time at the [upcoming team] retreat to hear C.J.‘s thoughts on the evaluations and talk about a strategy that ensures he is receiving proper care and input from the men at Covenant Life (i.e., primarily Josh, Kenneth, Grant). In this regard, I think it may serve them to be made aware of the issues we have been talking about with C.J. and the observations we have provided him.'”
In his last post, @Donald wrote, “It appears that CJ played by another set of rules for a long, long time without accountability, as he advocated. This appears to be an autocrat living by his own rules without Elders or Oversight. So much for the Church.”
Guy, can we get an icon that has the “I could have had a V8” guy on it? Or maybe a lightbulb over someone’s head? A timely revelation like this one deserves acknowledgment.
Res..good idea. I wil poke around for one
:idea:
Res..you could always use this one
:I-got-an-idea:
Or this (ok…i’m done)
Or this for DPV
:Yes-Sir:
(ok..really done now)
Donald,
No one is trying to beat you up here, but you don’t seem to understand that you are starting from scratch trying to understand SGM in a way that hundreds or thousands of others have been grasping for years. I know you think you are making big revelations and insights, but you are only saying in simplistic, uninformed ways what most folks here have understood for a long time (even new folks would figure it out if they read a few stories, etc.)
It is getting very hard to have a flow of posts turn into meaningful blog-conversation when you put dozens of posts up every day, stating in long-winded, high-brow language what most people already understand.
You don’t seem too daunted by a number of folks expressing this concern, so I doubt my thoughts will affect you either, but a few more of your numbered lists of “old news” material and everyone else will be the ones yelling “egads” and wanting to share pointed “to wits” with you.
Don’t mean to be disagreeable, but I think it would be helpful to everyone here if we protected the flow of conversation and slowed down the stuff that is making it hard to even follow along.
If others disagree – that’s fine. Just a thought.
@Adullam, thank you for saying what I simply tried to imply. You’re much more gracious than I am!
@Guy, you just made me laugh out loud! Thank you!!!
Guy and Res, yes, a deepened impression on one of several themes enunciated by 100s here. I’ve heard it before over 1000s of posts and, yep, Brent’s remarks deepened the impression. (I’m on the fourth read of them.) As Oxymadias advised earlier, there are several subsets in the venue.
Speaking of lightbulbs going off, I wonder what the percentage of SGM parishioners nationwide see the disparity between what CJ taught–in terms of accountability and now departure from CLC–and how he lived in relation to SGM itself and CLC? I suppose old timers get it, but there are probably many who haven’t had the full light of disclosure. Mr. Detwiler’s documents just hit the streets in late June.
Alright Adullum, I’ll bow out. My posts have been many and, at times, difficult. I’ve got close to 100 pages of my own notes and observations, given the interest across several disciplines. I’ll post elsewhere. No ill will or hard feelings either. My interest will not be diminished by not posting either. I spent six months studying Benny Hinn, but was diverted by my Father’s death (a scholarly man) and had to live with my Mother for several months. Upon return, the Hinn study atrophied. I intend to study this Detwiler-Mahaney-SGM phenomenon for more months, just not here. Best regards.
Donald, do post! But just keep them succinct and fresh. Few and short would avoid you sharing every thought you’ve had. If you boiled your daily musings down to two paragraphs of fresh insight it would work really well. It would trim the fat from the meat of your thoughts.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Donald!
I’m sure that many would enjoy surveying your thoughts and studies as you explore these things in the weeks and months to come – so be sure to let us all know if you establish a location/blog where you can share the large volume of material that will, no doubt, arise rom that kind of thorough study.
Again, thank you for your warm reply to my direct concerns. It is very much appreciated.
I agree with Joe, Donald.
I don’t think you need to leave these discussions, but Joe’s suggestions, I think, would be very helpful.
In Adullam’s Cave: I’m fairly new to this blog so maybe you could point me to the rule page. I was unaware that those with long-time association with CLC/SGM were permitted to post. Or that there was some rule that content should of interest to only those with such history. Further more, I doubt a Marine war vet is going to be “daunted” by much at all; certainly not by some anonymous blogger.
I was 10 or 11 when what was left of my family left CLC and this subject is one that I haven’t attempted to delve into is 20 some years. A lot of what I “knew” was information obtained from a child’s point of view. MANY of the poster here have provide information or insights that have expanded my understanding of what took place and why. For me that is helpful and healing.
While I am not a “believer”, I am interested in protecting people who may be used or victimized by those is positions of power. Donald seems to have similar motivations. I don’t see why you would consider his posts to be “making it hard to even follow along”. Who are you to judge what is or isn’t worthwhile content? That’s not a rhetorical question. I would actually appreciate an answer. In my readings, there are posts that I skip in interest of time. That’s ok, it’s what the scroll bar and my own judgement is for. Truthfully, I appreciate his excellent grammar and sentence structure. The manner in which he presents information makes it very difficult to misunderstand him. As for his language being “high brow”, please, it’s brow at best (no offense Donald). Which word was so high brow?
Quit judging.
Couple things from waayyy up there:
1. Was Bill P at CLC before going to Cov Fel?
2. Josh wrote a book “Stop Dating the Church.”
I keep thinking about the apology or outreach offered by Mr. Somerville – and I wonder about repentance:
Have the pastoral staff as a whole done anything to lead in acts of repentance? Any days of fasting and prayer? Have there been any corporate prayer meetings for confession? Letters posted on the blog or blog posts themselves mentioning regret are certainly a gesture. I don’t want to take anything away from that and I’ll let God judge hearts. But setting aside a day of public confession and prayer? Maybe there have been public confessions in members’ meetings and that would be good to hear.
I’m with Kris. Who is brave enough to face the deeper root issues in SGM?
Would anyone else ever get away with the behavior of CJ? Of course not. But what is the root cause of this fact? I’d love for leadership to humbly answer that with newfound clarity.
ExCLEer’sSister2,
As I said,
“If others disagree – that’s fine. Just a thought.”
Kind of hard to find any “judging” in that…but, even there, you are welcome (and, obviously, not reserved) to make your own “judgments” and share your opinions.
Also, I think you unfairly lowered the “brow” of Donald’s clever and flavorful writing style. :)
@ExCLCer’sSister2, I share Adullam’s concerns so it wouldn’t be fair for me to sit back and wait for him to respond to your post. No one ever said that only CLC/SGMers can post here. If you read back through Donald’s posts (and you don’t have to go any farther than the ones he posted on Saturday, which comprise about 20% of all of the posts on this blog), I think you’ll see that he was often stating things that have been said and discussed on this blog for years. Of course he has every right to do that, but his frequent posts on his various observations detract from the conversation.
I appreciate that Donald is processing what many others of us have lived for years, but like Adullam and Joe, I just don’t think that this blog is the place to think outloud. (They didn’t say that – that’s my oversimplification of their very gracious comments.)
As for the “high brow” language, that’s all a matter of opinion.
Ok…deep breaths everybody.
I’m ordering some pizza..who’s in?
One good thing about things being said (DPV) here that have been discussed for years….it saves the newbies a lot of work. :)
I mainly go right past long comments especially if one person is making a lot. But, there might be folks here who want to read what he’s saying. if I had more time, I might read them. :)
Sid
I’m in!!
What kind are we getting?
I’m good with anything that has pepperoni on it somewhere.
Adullam, Joe and ExCLCer:
1. No, as Jim said earlier, “This isn’t my first rodeo.” Not daunted by much in life other than God’s Sovereign Majesty and the prospects, one day, of death–that is, the pain that it may entail. The former is a grand comfort, even in death. My citizenship is in another country, based upon Christ’s finished and abiding work (Phil.3.20). So not daunted by any of it.
2. But, on the other hand, there have been a few casual conclusions that were unwarranted, some assumptions (e.g. such as earlier, but one pontificator, “if you don’t have skin in the game you shouldn’t have a say…I didn’t rebut the gratituous assumption, in the interests of peace, but my thought, my correct thought, was `Yeah, right, tell that to a Federal Judge who has “no skin in any game,’ but has a say,” or “Tell that to the Surgeon who’s not suffering from cancer and “has no personal skin in the game,” but has a right to speak…it was silly and, frankly, impudent), and even jocular asides. I have no time for any of that.
3. As stated repeatedly, the interest is the factual pattern, the history, the characteristics, and the truth. I can do that on my own without posting and yet with studying. This includes the blogs, but also CJ’s books and conferences. Even, contacting Brent.
4. I’ll continue reading, looking for substance. I like Ozymadias’s post today about varied subsets in the community–I am there is a place for beginners like myself who can be handled with gentleness and respect. I hope that SGMers who don’t have the full story can read here and ask questions without ridicule. I hope those who’ve suffered can find camradry with fellow suffers…something that offers hope. Also, as said to ExCLCer’s Mom, last night, I hope that her Grandpups can look back one day, years from now, and say, “There were–in fact–Christian people of integrity, honour, decency and truth who sought the facts, did the right things, and made corrections.” I want the kids to see that.
5. But, this is too long. Gotta keep it short. I’ll be around. Best regards to all. And thanks to all who’ve posted thus far.
In Adullam’s Cave: The pronouncement “I know you think you are making big revelations and insights, but you are only saying in simplistic, uninformed ways what most folks here have understood for a long time (even new folks would figure it out if they read a few stories, etc.)” was what I viewed as judging. Merely adding “If others disagree – that’s fine. Just a thought.” doesn’t change that.
It is interesting that you proclaim him to be “highbrow” and “simplistic” in one posting though. I am not trying to be hostile, but I have a very sensitive BS detector and my understanding is that the point of these blog is to eliminate as much BS as possible. You triggered mine. However, I do understand that much of human communication is accomplished through non-verbal means and communication that rely on on verbal means ensure that things will be misconstrued. I do find the information Donald imparts to be useful, but more than that, I enjoy his posts.
All I’m saying is that I’m sure there are plenty of people who read these blogs without ever commenting and you can’t know which poster has something to say that touches their heart or addresses their needs. I just don’t like hearing someone to tell others to shut up, no matter what phrasing they use.
About that pizza…?
Res Ipsa: Of course he didn’t say it. He merely implied it. Actually saying it, would be far more honest though. Thanks for reminding me why I don’t hang with “church people” anymore.
Wow.
Anyway…
Guy, I’ll take a deep-dish with everything on it.
I thought this blog was about honesty and openness and exposing the truth.
In Adullam’s Cave/Res Ipsa: layoff DPV already. If you don’t like his long posts, skip em! I much rather skim over his long, thought-provoking posts than see your pepperoni, deep-dish pizza posts.
ExCLCer’sSister2,
Welcome to the forum, I’m glad you’re here and I want to echo along with so many others my deepest heartfelt grief at what happened to your family. It is one of the saddest stories of what a church and pastors should NOT do and I wish that it never happened. You have such a brave and courageous mother who protected her children against such great odds in standing up to the wrongs/evils by Mr. A and SGM. I’m glad you’re reading here and joining your sibling exCLCer in sharing your perspective. I admire your own courage as you open up that painful chapter again by coming here and I hope you find some consolation in doing so.
If it helps, what I think others may be saying with regard to DPV is not that he shouldn’t post here and offer his views, which are very insightful, but that he is also digging through the 600+ pages of Brent Detwiler’s documents and posting frequent and lengthy analyses of that situation. There is quite a long history of this blog with past stories and posts that can shed light on many of the questions that he is raising. I myself like the idea if DPV set up a separate blog/dialogue for his research and discoveries so that it would be a thread dedicated just to that (and what a great thinker and articulate writer he is!). I applaud him for his dogged determination to understand and shed light on the dark corners of SGM, we really need that. This is only one of many blogs where SGM is discussed and I agree with Abdullam’s Cave and Joe in what they were suggesting to him, I don’t think they were telling him to “shut up” by any means. In any case, you are right about the diverse opinions being expressed here and that you never know who will say something that will be the exact thing that ends up speaking to you the most.
DVP writes like an old man :wink:. On one hand his grammar is better than most of ours and he’s clear and precise in his writing. On the other hand he’s more verbose than is normal for the Internet.
I’ve mostly lurked for two years. I already know most of what DVP says but don’t see a problem with him saying it because there are new people coming a long all the time who may not have figured it out yet.
Blue Sky: I can get what you’re saying. Thank you. Again, being new to delving into all of this information, I don’t know all of the sites to check, but I can certainly see your point. More, I can appreciate how you made it without feeling the need to analyze and rate his style of writing negatively. Again, thank you!
As for the pizza….I’m thinking we’re all far too old for pizza at this hour. I don’t think any of us are in Hawaii, so It’s pretty late.
Besides, it’ll make us fat and give us heartburn.
Let’s call it a night. Tomorrow we will all be fresh and ready to take on the world.
Much love,
The voice of reason. Aka Sid. ;)
Long time lurker, first time poster. Just wanted to let everyone know about how the Fairfax church is handling sexual abuse cases of current. We were called a few days ago and informed that one of the children’s ministry teachers had been arrested for having child pornography on his computer. They were calling families and letting them know of the situation. This is simply unheard of at this church. I’m thankful that they notified everyone so that we can better protect our children, I just wish they would have done the same thing in Noel and Happy Mom’s story.
Also, just wanted some insight on another question. Many people have said that if they knew of someone who committed a crime against a child that they would be yelling from the rooftops about the situation in order to protect others. However, it seems to me that there haven’t been any names shouted out on here as to who these people are. Is it to protect the victims? Why not warn current members who they are, even if they aren’t in the church any longer, their families are and they may be around their families when others are there……just a thought. :new
You know, not everyone’s writing will appeal to everyone. Just something I’ve learned over years of blogging. You write to pound out your thoughts and hopefully connect with others, but you don’t have much control over who those “others” may be. Some will appreciate you; some won’t. But the ones who don’t can simply scroll down or click away. I mean, no one’s eyeballs are being forced open here a la “Clockwork Orange.” (One assumes, anyway. :wink:)
Poor DPV is getting it from both sides. “I like you.” “I don’t like you.” “Keep talking.” “Shut up.” The way I see it, it’s a bit of a writer’s coup here, Donald. People are not neutral towards you! That’s a good thing.
I imagine you’re safe to continue commenting unless Kris or Guy bans you, so do what you do, be who you are, and people can take it or leave it.
Heaven will be amazing!
It can’t come too soon.