“Ambassadors of Reconciliation” Issue Report
August 26, 2011 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
The “Ambassadors Of Reconciliation” have issued their report. You can download it here.
Apparently, C.J. Mahaney has been declared “fit for ministry.”
EDITED TO ADD: Actually, “Ambassadors of Reconciliation” was only quoting from the preliminary outside panel made up of Ray Ortlund, Kevin DeYoung, and Carl Trueman. AoR’s final statement on the issue of C.J.’s fitness for ministry was that AoR is not qualified to make a judgment on the matter.
© 2011, Kris. All rights reserved.
Initial thoughts after just a few minutes of looking at new SGM post and the AoR document:
1. They were love-bombed and “look at how much we pray for you”-bombed. That probably affected them.
2. CJ is good to go… just wait and see. The games over and we are just playing the final 2 minutes of it because we have to.
3. I am sickened with SGM board and the churches that are just giving CJ a pass. If any regular pastor (or CG leader!)did what CJ did to LT (coercion at best, blackmail at worst) they would be degifted. Period! But CJ? no way jose. He has “reconciled”. Yeah, 12 yrs later after LT kept pursuing, and after CJ knew the writing was on the wall. And I am sick of my local SGM church’s deceitful handling of the situation.
So I ask you folks still in SGM – will you accept the whitewashing of an event that show the character of CJ and the SGM board? A week and a half long threat of exposing the sin of a teenage son who confessed in the context of pastoral care just so they can have their way?! Doesn’t this reveal anything? and is anyone willing to tell the truth that this should be disqualifying of someone in CJ’s position? The American Evangelical church makes my ill.
:barf:
apparently sounds like you have a score to settle and not for Christ but for you own agenda!
I’m not remotely surprised. Is anyone else? We saw this coming. But I’m still sorely disappointed. But I would be very surprised if CJ returned. His sons-in-law are out. Do we really expect CJ to return to CLC, let alone SGM? That would shock me more than this report.
But I am glad that they pointed out all the valid reasons for SGM receiving so much criticism. Time will tell if they actually make any of those changes. But it will be unacceptable if they go away then come back with what they’ve come up with. “We as the SGM board have come up with this, this and this to make things better. Good huh?” Way to change the whole accountability thing. Church leaders can’t be accountable to themselves!!
An added note to my previous comment (now that I’ve pretty much finished reading the report), AoR aren’t saying their report is the final word. They still believe the charges against CJ should be dealt with in a formal hearing of some kind. I just hope the board doesn’t take this, along with the preliminary report a few weeks ago, and run with it to get CJ back to work.
:barf:
Can you see them evaluating Luther when he spoke against the Pope’s authority? Or the non conformist pilgrims in England before they escaped to the New World?
I do feel sorry for Josh Harris right, and any SGM pastors that “get it”. Tough choices ahead.
Glad to be out!
This is bizarre: their conclusion regarding CJ’s fitness for ministry is that they are not qualified to make a judgement on that issue and somebody else should be hired to do that. Then why exactly were the Ambassadors of Reconciliation brought in?!
I think CJ will be back at work in a few months. Long enough to convince members that “he is great”, but what they don’t want to see is that CJ will “never” forgive Josh or the pastors that supported Josh, and the “saga” will continue. This is the time that is giving CLC to make some positive changes that will benefit the “Body of Christ”. We should pray for CLC members, pastors and Josh. All hurtful and deceptive things only benefit the enemy of our souls.
I wonder how much that cost.
And just to clarify….
CJ is still working (conferences).
CJ is still a fully paid staff member of SGM even though he doesn’t go to one of their churches.
Kris,
Have you read the report? The intention was not to declare anyone fit for ministry, but rather to advise the SGM Board about how to proceed in this situation. There were a number of items in the report that I would think would be encouraging to you and your readers. 1) Recognition of SGM’s faulty structures and lack of due process to bring a concern from the laity to the leadership. 2) Recognition that there was a lack of grace and forgiveness when confessing sins. 3) Recognition that the board still has further to go in terms of seeking out reconciliation with Brent and others that have been offended.
Of course, you didn’t mention any of these things. Rather, you made the remark: ‘Apparently, C.J. Mahaney has been declared “fit for ministry.”’ Again, he report never once states his fitness for ministry. It makes a recommendation for how the board can properly adjudicate the charges levied against CJ. It would be this process which would determine the fitness of CJ.
I’m afraid your uninformed comment serves only to stir up more and more contention and division.
FooFighter –
You are correct. I will edit the post. I had misread AoR’s quote from the mini-panel as being from AoR.
However…I do find it odd that they would bother to include the mini-panel’s endorsement of CJ in their own report. I don’t quite understand that decision. It still serves to color AoR’s own remarks.
And just for the record, yes, FooFighter, I did read the report. Just not carefully enough. There was no intention on my part to stir up anything. If I really wanted to, I could “stir up” a whole lot of ruckus with info that many people have sent to me, but I find myself feeling pretty apathetic about things these days.
Interestingly enough, the rules for composing the panel look an awful lot like how panels to hear cases brought to the top church court of the PCA are made up – random draw of parties that are supposed to be uninterested (too bad AoR didn’t provide good criteria for “uninterested” – seems like a certain set distance from all parties involved would be good to have written out).
I have to agree with FooFighter. I just read all 20 pages and it does seem that there were some major changes recommended. It also sounds like there will be a hearing or legal process of sorts according to biblical norms and both Brent and CJ will be given the opportunity to testify as well as bring in witnesses for their side of things. I am hoping, however, that there will also be some changes in the polity of our church. If not, I’m outta here! Let’s give this process a chance.
Kmack – it appears as though the LT incident is off the table? What say you about that? How can CJ and SGM board be excused for that incident? Where is the accountability? Above reproach? Methinks not.
I admit I started to read it with much suspicion (hence my original post). Thus I probably read into things in the first few pages. But by the end I was much more encouraged.
And Kris I think they mentioned the preliminary panel just to cover all their bases with what SGM had done up to that point.
Sidney, post #8- excellent.
Foo Fighter- good name and good post. (Except the part where you decide Kris’ intentions. Only God can know the heart. But the rest- good!)
Kris, it is odd that they included the preliminary panel’s report when that should have had nothing to do with theirs whatsoever- especially after declaring themselves not qualified to make a judgment on the matter.
Stunned said,
That’s what I mean.
I get that AoR might just have been trying to give a complete summary about SGM’s actions. But there was something about the tone of the whole report that seemed to work very hard at flattering and sucking up to SGM…like these AoR guys were trying to somehow prove how much they love SGM.
Kris,
Thanks for updating the post. That’s true humility!
And for the record (Kris and Stunned), I was not attempting to comment on anyone’s intentions, but rather making an observation about the outcome of the statement, based upon the first few posts.
“But there was something about the tone of the whole report that seemed to work very hard at flattering and sucking up to SGM…like these AoR guys were trying to somehow prove how much they love SGM.”
The love-bombing and we’re praying for you worked. How many of us can testify to it’s effectiveness?
I think that this is a great first step.
AOR did a great job at identify the problems within SGM leadership structure. They also did a great job with not choosing sides on heated subjects. They simply did what they where supposed to do. Which was give SGM board a outside established organizations view on there problems.
Personally i have Great HOPE for change.
And i dont think that AoR was trying to kiss SGM butts.
I Believe they where just trying to glorify God with there actions.
there report on a whole i give a A-
The only thing i didnt like about the report was there wasn’t enough detail for me.
What I’m trying to say in my #17 is that AoR sounded NOTHING like an “impartial” group. The guys who wrote that report sound like they are enamored with SGM.
They made some astute remarks, like this one:
But I wonder why, even as they made their most trenchant observation, they felt the need to offer up a built-in excuse:
And how can anyone with even the smallest amount of common sense discuss SGM’s lack of accountability as though it’s only a problem because it can be criticized for apparent conflicts of interest?
Foo Fighter, I guess I misunderstood you.
I had read something judgemental or snarky in the “Of course, you didn’t mention any of these things” and “your uninformed comment serves only to stir up more and more contention and division.” Good to know there was nothing in you that was calling Kris’ intentions into question.
Oh well, I tried the blockquote…. :scratch
Here’s the quote in reference to comment #23:
“People who do not use care or discretion in sharing or reading such information, or who discuss the information with anyone not authorized to handle such issues, are likely to break God’s commands.”
Pg 9
@Kris said, “but I find myself feeling pretty apathetic about things these days.”
Kris, I totally get that. I am amazed at how long you have persevered in this and not said those exact words sooner.
You have served us “survivors” well above and beyond your calling. Thanks to you, there has been much healing among us. Thank you for your labors, and lending your discerning mind to those of us who at times needed help putting a name to things we were seeing and feeling.
If at anytime you are ready to be done with this, know that you go with our gratitude and appreciation for sticking it out waaaaay longer than the vast majority of us would have.
Stunned,
I think my thoughts/feelings/emotions were mostly in the frustrated and disappointed vein. I was really excited, encouraged and hopeful after reading the report. I was glad when I saw those same sentiments expressed over at Refuge Then I came here and saw that the only commentary given on the report was a negative one which seemed to set the tone for the ensuing conversation. Thus, frustration and disappointment (and — yes — as I think about it, I do recall some judgement of Kris’ motivations).
Kris, please forgive me for judging your motives. Thanks again for amending your remarks and changing the tide of the conversation.
“In a separate document we will provide you with an agreement which describes a Group Reconciliation Process designed for SGM.” (pg. 15)
This (especially the capitalization, indicating a original concept that they own) makes me think that AoR will continue to supervise the process based on these terms, but that they can’t hire/fire/making binding decisions for SGM.
That, to me, makes this whole document seem very loose and preliminary, and I think the real meat of their evaluation is yet to come.
I read the document last night; I hope that qualifies me to opine.
As others have noted, I am a tad disappointed with the emphasis upon the pastors and working to restore CJ and the pastors while so many people have been hurt, a broader reconciliation effort seems almost an afterthought.
Ifear the pigs that think they’re more equal than the lesser pigs will not get a clue that *they* should read the document and seek out the people that he silenced, dismembered, and shunned.
Also, the elders should comprise a representative cross section of membership. Having the same Gene, John, and Harvey foxes appraising the state of the henhouse isn’t going to cut it.
And when I speak of a cross section, I mean *women* as well and if you don’t want us to have a seat around your table, I hope you don’t believe we should tithe our income, either, taxation without representation and all.
@ Mattie Chatham
I agree with you 100%
I am not done reading the entire document just yet, but I can see where some look hopefully, then see where some get discouraged.
Right from the beginning, I understand their sentiment of the “attitude” they get from everyone at CLC. How they were all graciously thank by everyone the saw, and how some even sought them out, etc. Well, on the one hand, that can, and in many cases be genuine, but it can also be “PR”. Since it would be impossible to truly judge anyone’s hearts in the matter, I would think that should not be something to take account of. They mentioned in comparison how in other churches that does not happen. Could it be that in other churches, maybe those people are not so “versed in PR actions”. I’m not trying to pick apart and criticize everything, but I can remember a very good friend, who just was shy, and not a very vocal person. Many people “judged her” to be”stuck up”, but that was not the case at all! I always get cautious about people making any kind of initial judgment solely based on another’s socialization skills. It only confirms they have social skills-so did Ted Bundy. I can see in this situation many people at CLC are so hoping for a resolution, and looking to such from these guys-how they would feel so desirous of giving them thanks-I would ,too. But, in these “other churches” they speak of in comparison, when they did not do so, maybe it was because they did not want to seem they were trying to bias in any way? Maybe they were just trying to awkwardly stay out of the way and go about “business as usual” for a more appropriate observation? I am just saying that seeing that as one of the opening statements in this made little alarms go off in my head. I am not trying to judge these guys, either, I am just saying that, while those types of greetings and expressions can “feel good”, I do not think those are ones to be compared to others who do not, in the whole situation. Seems to me, when reporters have gone to those Polygamist Compounds, they are often greeted the same. It would be appropriate for it to be mentioned in a letter, thanking for the warm greetings and acknowledgments, but should not bear any weight in a report.
As I said, I still have to read on, and will go back to doing so.
Wow, DB! Good point! :goodpost
Side note: Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa is named in a sexual abuse lawsuit this week. If you read the court documents, it sounds eerily like goings on at SGM. One person at the top (Chuck Smith) who decides which pastors stay, which go, unaccredited college, having known pedophiles on campus and in ministerial positions with no safeguards, no disclosure to parents, no accountability. Is there a school to learn this type of behavior? Sounds like CJ and Chuck Smith were in the same class!
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=7211
Re:Foo #’s 9 and 27–I am in total agreement.
I have just finished reading the AoR report and feel very encouraged. At the Plant and Build blog, Dave H says that they will implement all that is recommended by AoR. I think we should ‘watch and pray’ for the process and see how is goes. It will take some time. God doesn’t do anything fast, but he is very thorough. His ultimate goal is that He will be glorified. We can’t fight that.
I have only had time to skim the report.
I am still dismayed that the AoR only seems to be dealing with the matter as a church squabble, albeit a big one. It is written as if they have not considered very seriously that SGM, at least to some degree, has become a theo-social system that could be a danger–yes, a danger–to the unsuspecting public. I would think that to truly honor God, concern for the phychological health of current and future members and the good name of Jesus Christ should also be considered.
I’ll read more carefully tonight, but there is a section admonishing the disaffected members for lack of forgiveness. Without AoR acknowledging that this is a theo-sociological system (with conformity enforced subtly by guilt, fear, and other “mild” but widespread control techniques being employed–by “mild” I mean “not Jonestown”), AoR is avoiding the main reason people are not “forgiving” and that the public complaints (that AoR does not like) continue. Placing most of the blame for the divide on individual sins unrepented of an unforgiven and on the unhappy departure of pastors is not addressing the public complaint at all.
I don’t care if JL and I are ever pals again. God will deal with him. I do care, when at least 3 times a year I meet a stranger around town who is recovering from whatever happened to them at an SGM church. This still happens and I left 15 years ago.
sgmnot, I agree with you, that was one of the most unsettling statements in the report. What does “authorized” mean to them? Almost sounded like a veiled warning..??
DB #29: Great Comment! Women do need to have a greater, real voice in church issues. I personally seen male leadership as the pattern in scripture, but women DO have much more to give than they have the opportunity to in MOST Christian churches today. And the definitely includes SGM and there emphasis on male supremacy!
I have been thinking about this very thing, in relation to the pervasive errors by the pastors in dealing with sex abuse cases and other martial abuse cases. Often men are too compartmental in difficult interpersonal situations. They want Situation A to be accomplished and move on to Situation B. I think that this explains some (but not all!) of the reasons of why they wanted to prematurely “close” various abuse cases like ExCLCer’s, get the mess “fixed” with a “reconciliation” and then move on! Find a reason to be able to oust the unsubmissive mom, and move on! Send the kids away, and never contact them again (as was what ExCLCer told me happened to her!!) I can’t prove they were thinking these things, but to me that is what their actions show…
AND I think this also is the partially the reason why women, who are very intuitive and interpersonal, can have MUCH to add in church policy issues and conflict resolution. But don’t hold your breath waiting for THIS to change….
I think the tithe question (tithe w/o representation) is an interesting point!
I see the criticism of the blogs and the public distribution of Brent’s allegations beginning on page 9 of the AoR document..
I haven’t read AoR’s criticism of CJ’s repeatedly ignoring Brent’s appeals to repent FOR YEARS.
Have I missed this section? Guidance, please?
Singing Cook #36: Yes, to me too–a warning–don’t you do it–don’t you even TRY to TALK about it among yourselves.
Who has been authorized? AND who did the authorizing? This is a very MUCH different attitude/policy/directive than what Paul says in the NT. He praises the Bereans for DOUBLE-CHECKING what HE taught from the Bible to them. And they did that double-checking at home, among themselves, with their OWN discernment. And the word of God, people, calls it NOBLE!
Jewel, thanks for sharing that link! (#33) I have a lot of reading to do now!
AOR’s logo has greatly disturbed me. But now I think I understand their reasoning for using a pentacle and chakra flower along with a heart and cross. AOR has attempted to do for SGM exactly what they went into business to do, which is simply to attempt reconciliation, tranquility, harmony, etc. within their customers’ organizations. We shouldn’t expect any more from them than that.
AOR says their guide is Lutheran confessions. I don’t know if they have a statement of faith of their own. But I think their logo alone should make SGM members question if they can accept AOR as being on the same faith page as themselves and thereby trust their ‘judgement.’
John the apostle in 1,2,3 John writes a lot about brotherly love. I believe chapter 4:1 should have been attached to the end of chapter 3 when he says BUT believe not every spirit. I believe the context warrants this paraphrase of mine [believe not every spirit that comes in the name of love]. But TEST…
HowDee YaAll,
Looks like a SGM “jury of peers” is gonna decide Ole C.J.’s fate,,,
Ah huh?
Datz what theyz say’in…
Lord: “May they put on a performance worthy of your track! (Heaven) …”
Boogaty, Boogaty, Boogaty… Amen.
(Theyz bedda!)
Hahahahahahaha
Sopy 8)
—–
“In their (AOR) assessment, it is the (SGM) board’s responsibility to do the (C. J. Mahaney fitness) evaluation. At the same time, they are sensitive to the perceived conflict of interest at play if the board comprised the review panel. To achieve a compromise, they have proposed that a five-person panel—four SGM pastors and one (SGM) board member—hears and adjudicates the allegations against C.J.”
-Dave Harvey,-SGMUpdate: The consultation report from Ambassadors of Reconciliation; August 25, 2011.;
http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/sgm/post/The-consultation-report-from-Ambassadors-of-Reconciliation.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vAVLvu6KwA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sgmnot said “I personally seen male leadership as the pattern in scripture”
I venture to say that more likely than not, that the reason is first you were taught that pattern. And our translators have done things to the scriptures to put emphasis on the male leaders in the N.T. But the females ARE there.
Also I believe the simple fact of women being the child bearers will always make the ratio of female leaders expecially at the younger ages male>female. If more women would study the scriptures alone during their recovery times and any free time they can possibly find while raising children instead of worrying about spic and span clean houses and eliminating junk drawers we could have many more older female leaders with much wisdom.
Just a heads up in regards to Fairfax:
family meeting on Saturday morning, Aug 27, 8-10 am, to discuss child protection
family meeting on Sunday night, Sept 24, 6:30-8:30 pm, to discuss the church’s polity/governance
AoR’s logo is Luther’s Rose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_rose
@Patti: THANK YOU for your post. If one were to study the Bible, in a non-chauvinistic light, one would notice that women were not derided in any way. Think of Deborah. Had God intended women to be nothing but helpmeets would he have ever allowed or endorsed Deborah to lead? This is actually one part of SGM that really bothers me. Why is there not a push for women to study theology and the scriptures. No, instead there are meetings and seminars on how to be a good wife/mom and what your role as a Godly woman should be. I never noticed anything in the Bible that emphasized gender roles in such a way that I see displayed at SGM churches. While I do think there is nothing wrong with a woman CHOOSING to make homemaking, homeschooling, and being a stay-at-home mom her vocation, I have not found the evidence to suggest that such a way of living is Biblical or that God endorses it in any such way. The way I was brought up and taught was that we are to live and serve to the Glory of God, whether it be through homemaking or through serving in the workforce.
@SgmNOT#37: “AND I think this also is the partially the reason why women, who are very intuitive and interpersonal, can have MUCH to add in church policy issues and conflict resolution.” AMEN!!! :word
Personally, I think elders(both genders) should be, ahem, elder.
This gives people a chance to get established in a career and raise a few children.
And the mothering years are not necessarily a time to let your brain go to seed. When my youngest started school, I started school as well and I took seven CLEP tests and passed every one and they were all based upon my prior knowledge of the subject.
To those that like my tithe comment, think about it,if I’m going to be forced to sit in the cheap seats, why should I subsidize some dude that is sitting in the box seats?
Well I haven’t read all these documents yest but I can’t help from laughing. Ted and Ed sounds like Burt and Ernie.
ExCLC’ers Mom,
Regarding your post at #31,
Maybe the thankfulness and offer of prayers is because most of the staff there is desperate for change. I would think most/all of the staff goes to CLC and has been listening to Josh. Let’s hope that is the case.
Jewel said:
“Side note: Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa is named in a sexual abuse lawsuit this week. If you read the court documents, it sounds eerily like goings on at SGM. One person at the top (Chuck Smith) who decides which pastors stay, which go, unaccredited college, having known pedophiles on campus and in ministerial positions with no safeguards, no disclosure to parents, no accountability. Is there a school to learn this type of behavior? Sounds like CJ and Chuck Smith were in the same class!”
There seem to be a lot of similarities between the Calvary Chapel group of churches and SGM. Both have leaders that may have started out right but sadly saw the group the helped start as their group vs. God’s IMO. Sadly both leaders IMO forgot that they are to be stewards of what God entrusted them to vs. owning these groups.