Upheaval In Ashburn…And C.J. Mahaney Needs More Reconciliation?
September 15, 2011 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
The Ashburn, Virginia Sovereign Grace Church appears to be going through some changes in leadership. From a reader comes the following:
Kris,
There has been a significant shakeup at the Ashburn church over polity. Two of the three founding pastors resigned last week. The similarities to the Detwiler situation are striking. There are apparently documents from both sides being circulated to member.
A sound file of the announcement can be accessed here.
EDITED TO ADD: Here is one letter that was sent out to members and attenders on the church’s distribution list –
September 1, 2011
Dear Members of Grace Community Church:
It is with heavy sorrow in our hearts that we inform you of our resignation from the board of Grace Community Church and our separation from the church we helped establish with dozens of you. Serving alongside you has been among the greatest joys of our lives. We had hoped to serve here for decades, but God has ordained a different path and we trust His promises to bring good to all of us in the midst of this painful separation.
The differences that separate the pastoral team are not scandalous in nature, and do not involve heresy. We are grateful that all of the men leading this church have a firm grasp on the gospel of Jesus Christ and dearly love this church. Each of us has sought to honor God in what
we believe to be in the best interest of this church. We commend our brothers in this, for this pursuit matters more than any of our differences.However, the differences are many and are significant in their implications for (1) how we shepherd the flock and (2) how we govern the affairs of the church. Without agreement on these issues now for over a year, progress has come to a standstill and the church is suffering while the pastoral team is distracted attempting to resolve the differences. We have come to conclude that there is no resolution that will satisfy all of us and that it is best for the church if the distractions were removed so the church can take on her new shape as God ordains.
We believe that, as members of the local church, you should know the nature of some of the differences that have led to this separation, just as you should know how much we all love you and treasure our relationships with you. We will briefly share our perspectives openly here so that you are not left wondering our reasons behind this massive decision.
1Peter 5:2-3 reads “…shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.”
We have significant differences with the other men on the team about how to shepherd the flock of God. The fruit we have seen in others and experienced ourselves is not reflective of a model that we would desire others in the church to experience or emulate. Various church members and leaders have brought observations to the pastoral team echoing concerns that the two of us have been sharing with our team and with Sovereign Grace representatives with little effect. Without unity on this topic, we have been unable to support each other’s approaches to preaching and counseling.
Secondly, differences have arisen in our convictions about how to govern a church as elders, and how pastoral authority should be practiced in the life of the church. Contrasting opinions about the biblical qualifications for elders emerged as we evaluated both Brian and Kirk for ordination. Without fully completing either of those evaluations, we realized that we have
incompatible convictions about key qualifications such as the “ability to teach” and what constitutes humility. Without unity on those important topics, we reached an impasse. A more detailed summary of our disagreements in this area is attached for those who have asked, and you may always contact us at our personal e-mail addresses (below) if you have any other
questions. We are confident the other men on the board would be equally eager to give you their perspectives on the matter.We have become convinced that no matter how the board decides on the primary points of disagreement, some of the pastors would be dissatisfied with the conclusions and would likely leave at that time. Given the toll this has taken on our ability to serve you and our families with faith and joy, we believe God is leading us to remove ourselves now. Besides the benefit of
stopping the worsening interpersonal conflict, we believe this separation will allow the church to rebuild with a more unified vision.We are not sure the two of us have ever done anything more difficult in our lives. We simply don’t have words to describe how painful this separation is for us. We love you so very much and truly desired to find a way to continue to serve you as pastors. We’re not sure how to adequately convey the joy you have brought us and how much we have loved caring for you. Neither of us
saw this as a job or some generic calling to serve as professionals, but a calling to serve you in particular as pastors and friends. You and your families are dear to us and we will picture your faces as we think of you with love and gratefulness to have been able to serve alongside you.Many of you have already expressed your care for us and for our families, and for that we are sovery grateful. You should know our short-term plans are to attend Sovereign Grace Church in Fairfax to receive care from their pastoral team with no break in our practice of regular Sunday worship. The men on that team have already provided much care to us during this season, and we are grateful for their expressions of love. We’ve also been encouraged by the way they are humbly and honestly addressing their past failures, and by the questions they are asking of Sovereign Grace Ministries. We do not know what the future holds for us long-term, but believe our hearts will be tended to and healing will begin there. Please continue to pray for us. Pray for our hearts, for our wives and children, and for our physical needs as we seek new employment.
As many of you would be able to testify, we know that God promises to work all things for our good, using even trials (especially trials!) to conform us to the image of His Son (Rom 8:28-29). We don’t treat these promises flippantly. We are sad that some of you have only known about this for a short time. Our decision has not come easily or quickly. We have wrestled with some of these issues and have dialogued about them as a team for years now. We regret our contributions to this impasse and the pain it has caused you. We have remained as long as our faith would allow. Our goal has been to avoid harming the people we love. To remain now, though, when there is no longer faith to serve on this team, would cause more harm than good.
Hebrews 12 has been a great comfort to us and we pray it will be for you as well. God promises that even though “discipline seems painful rather than pleasant,” it later yields “the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it,” to those He loves as sons and daughters. He promises to remove “things that are shaken—that is, things that have been
made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain.” Regardless of any “shaking” that takes place in a local church and its leaders, our confidence is in our connection to Christ as members of His church, and in the fundamental unity we share because of His gospel. That can never be shaken.“Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken…” We have been transferred to the kingdom of His Beloved Son! This is our eternal hope.
With our deepest love and gratitude,
Tito Mercado
Brian GashAddendum: Summary of Church Governing Differences
As we mentioned in our letter above, we have received several questions regarding the nature of our disagreements as a team in the area of church polity (church government). We recognize that these details will not be of interest to everyone, but for those who are asking we have attempted to provide a little more detail.
Our primary concerns in this area revolve around the notion of a “plurality of elders,” how a team of coequal pastors functions. In our elder-led government structure, there are no checks-and-balances outside the team of elders/pastors. Sovereign Grace has made it clear that while it has the ability to remove our church from its affiliation, it cannot and will not impose its counsel over our board. As a result, our appeals for help have been met with gracious care (key men devoting many hours to helping us), but with no authority to enforce its recommendations.
Without external authority from Sovereign Grace or internal accountability from the congregation, then, it falls to the team of elders/pastors to hold itself accountable. This could work as long as all of the pastors function with humility and within the previously established internal governing structures. But when those structures are challenged from within, and unity and trust erodes, there are no structures left to help resolve impasses.
Bob, Tito, and Brian formed the official governing board of elders from 2006 until last month, when the governing board was expanded to include Kirk and Zach, along with two pastors from other Sovereign Grace churches and two lay leaders from within the church. For several years, Bob operated with the two of us in mutual understanding that we were biblically governing elders, having met the scriptural qualifications, and were thereby given legal authority to govern. When Sovereign Grace began to encourage its churches to ordain all pastors, all of the pastors agreed with that ideal and began to work toward that goal. As Bob communicated in a members meeting just before the two of us took our ordination exams, the process of ordination was only intended to confirm the pastoral calling that had already been made evident to the church.
However, when Brian failed the oral portion of the ordination exam, a series of changes to the functioning of our governing board began to develop without full consensus of the board. Bob and Tito could not find agreement about giving Brian another chance to retake the exam. Bob began to view Brian as disqualified from governing, and yet more evidently began to treat Kirk and Zach as equal members of the board, without agreement or ratification by the existing board.
The most significant impasse we faced, though, was not fundamentally about whether Brian was qualified to pastor, or whether Kirk would be ordained. We were not able to adequately address those issues. The impasse became more related to the process, about how decisions were made, and about how the senior pastor is to function within a healthy plurality, a team of leaders. Should he be equal in every sense with the other elders, or should the other elders willingly defer to his role, insight and perspectives?
Differences also emerged over how to define the gifts and character qualifications of an elder: what it meant to be “able to teach” (1Tim 3:2); how Scripture defined humility (1Pet 5:1–7); and beyond the Scriptural qualifications for eldership, what standards were required of a pastor functioning within Sovereign Grace Ministries and in this church.
With our governing board being redefined in practice (some desiring to include the other two men), and with differing opinions on how to balance the senior pastor’s input (some inclined to defer to his opinion when an impasse was reached), it became impossible to have the constructive conversations necessary to answer those questions as a unified team. After various meetings with representatives from Sovereign Grace in the fall of 2010 and spring of 2011, we were no closer to unity in these areas because their counsel and insights were not authoritative and not embraced by all on our team.
Over the past year, decisions have been made by all that contributed to a breakdown in trust of one another. From our perspective, concerns the two of us expressed about the direction of the church were not adequately addressed (e.g., changes to practices such as the sacraments, preaching emphases, practices of fellowship, etc.). Some of our appeals and disagreements have not been represented well to the board, to outside pastors, and to members of the church, and our motives have been falsely judged despite our attempts to clarify our intentions.
A practice the two of us believe would have helped our team avoid our breakdown and misunderstandings would have been to pursue more congregational involvement. All of the pastors believe Scripture affirms an elder-led form of church government, not congregational. However, we differ on how to and even whether to solicit and process your input as members of the church in decisions and changes proposed by the team.
Because of Sovereign Grace’s less authoritative oversight role and our ailing eldership, the two of us would have preferred to involve you as members into our disagreement at least as early as a year ago. There are pros and cons to this and we understand the hesitancy of the other men to unnecessarily burden you with the details and reality of a disjointed team. However, we believed then, and still do, that the benefit of being open and seeking help from those who know us best outweighs the downsides.
From our limited study of Scripture, when the apostles and elders made decisions in the interests and mission of the church, there often seemed to be congregational support or affirmation (Ac 6:2-5, Ac 15:22&30, Mt 18:17, 2Cor 8:19). In the same way, Paul, Peter, and the other New Testament writers often addressed their epistles to local churches or to the church at large, not merely its leaders. The most notable exceptions are Paul’s letters to Titus and Timothy, referred to as “The Pastoral Epistles,” because they were written to those two overseers who were responsible to appoint elders in the churches.
Even since the recent initiation of our “transitional board,” the information conveyed to the members has been inadequate from our perspective, and we have found it difficult to even agree on what details to share. This is just one of many differences that are not primary, not gospel-threatening, but that has significant implications for a team of men trying to govern together. By God’s grace, we will one day reconcile relationally but in our opinion the convictions and values of the five men, and even among some leaders within Sovereign Grace, are not compatible.
As expressed above, we deeply regret causing any pain to the church family we love so dearly. We don’t understand why God has seen fit to ordain this day, but we trust that behind this “frowning providence, he hides a smiling face” that will one day cause us all to rejoice as we behold His wisdom and love. We wholeheartedly believe His promise to turn this “momentary affliction” into “an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison” (2Cor 4:17).
There was the following response from the pastors who remain in on staff at the Ashburn church:
Dear Church,
It is indeed a most sorrowful time that we write to you as the pastors of Grace Community Church. The resignation of Brian and Tito on our team represents a significant loss to our congregation. It is something for which we, the remaining pastors, deeply regret, and something that we have repeatedly sought to avoid in our appeals to Brian and Tito. We hoped that they would stay, and that our differences would be resolvable. And yet we understand that they did not feel they could serve as pastors of this church any longer. We know that our own sins have made these disagreements more difficult to resolve, and where the Spirit has given us conviction in those areas we have sought to repent and seek forgiveness. That is something we are committed to continue doing, and your feedback to that end has helped.
Attached you will find a joint letter to the members of Grace Community Church from Brian and Tito, with an addendum that gives you their detailed reasons for leaving the pastoral team here. As Bob said on Sunday, there is so much to commend in these men, and it grieves us to need to focus on the differences we have with them rather than the massive number of agreements we share in Christ. Tito and Brian have served our church faithfully and been such a significant blessing, and we would want to separate focusing on those graces that have defined our relationship more than anything else.
Unfortunately, though, we cannot agree with all of their perspectives, so in response to their addendum, we’ve included our understanding of the situation so both sides can be heard. We hope none of it comes across like a personal attack, as we care deeply about these men and their families, but since there has been concern in the church about the lack of providing details, we thought it best to include the specifics of our version, for those who are interested.
If any of this is confusing or if you have further questions, we would be happy to meet with you in person to try to work through any issues this crisis has caused. We continue to be hopeful that pursuing a formal process of reconciliation with Tito and Brian will go a long way to clearing up so much of the disagreements and misunderstandings between us.
Please pray for that to happen soon, and that we would all, as a church, glorify God in how we process and walk through this challenging time. May we think charitably towards one another and strive to believe the best, as the cross of Jesus Christ has the final say in all of our relationships.
Gratefully Yours,
Bob Donohue
Zach Jones
Kirk WhitworthResponse to Tito and Brian’s Addendum
We want to begin with apologizing again for the delay of information in this situation. We know it has been a source of consternation for many of you, as you are undoubtedly grieving such a painful and sudden separation. We sincerely regret any additional temptation the slowness of any response from the temporary Board has caused you throughout this process, and have been eager to communicate with you more details in a way that would honor Christ as well as help this church we all love to process this very sad news as best as possible.
For some time now, all five of the men on the pastoral team have sought to come to agreement on how to explain our differences to the church. But it seems that at every point of these attempts, we have fallen into the trap of each person believing he was being mischaracterized by the other. This has made communicating in more than generalities, while avoiding misrepresenting one another, very difficult.
We realize that this has made some of you feel like we were seeking to hide information from the members of the church. We want to be clear that this has never been about hiding information; it has genuinely, from the best we can tell, been about honoring Christ with how we communicate to the church. But because the lack of information has led to understandable temptations for many to try to “fill in the blanks” where the information you had didn’t answer questions sufficiently, we are aware that more information is sorely needed. At this point, the only way we can see to move forward is to let some of these disagreements play out in this letter now.
We are also aware that one chief mistake we all made was the failure to bring the church into the situation sooner. We deeply apologize for any way that this has made anyone feel disrespected. Because we believed we would be able to work these differences out, the entire pastoral team supported the guidance of Sovereign Grace’s representatives to not share with the church at that time, even as we had questions about such counsel. Given the failure of the team to reach such reconciliation and agreement, when our need to separate became apparent several months ago, we all regretted that we had not brought the church in sooner.
The Polity Impasse
From our perspective this conflict is primarily about answering the question of “Who is qualified to govern the church?” This question first became apparent when Brian failed the oral portion of his ordination exam in the Spring of 2009. The manner in which he failed this exam led the pastoral team to realize that before Brian retake the exam; greater clarity was needed as to whether Brian met the gifting qualifications for an elder in the area of being, “able to teach.” Bob is particularly grieved at how his sin of presumption played into putting Brian forward without adequately preparing him for the exam, and without having spent the proper time with Brian beforehand to evaluate his gifting.But as that process of re-examining Brian’s teaching and counseling abilities progressed, personal relationships on the team began to break down. So with the agreement of the pastoral team, his reexamination was suspended, but with the hope to restart the process as the relational concerns were resolved. Shortly thereafter, we all agreed as a team to transition Brian to focusing exclusively on administration as the need there was growing and his skills in that area were excellent.
Later that fall, Brian and Tito supported Kirk being put forward for ordination, even as Brian’s was on hold. It was announced, with the pastoral team’s full support, in a Member’s Meeting in November of 2009, soliciting any encouragement and concerns for Kirk being a pastor. And so in the Spring of 2010, Kirk took and passed his written exam, but the day before he was to take the oral exam, Brian and Tito informed Bob that they were withdrawing support for Kirk’s ordination, a sudden and surprising change that became the catalyst for the situation we find ourselves in now.
Tito then changed his position on Brian’s role, arguing that Brian should not just be the administrator but should fully function as a governing elder, despite the questions about his qualification that remained unanswered. Tito and Brian believed that we had too stringent a definition of “able to teach,” and that Kirk’s arrogance was to a level of disqualifying him as a pastor. While Zach and Bob shared some of the concerns for Kirk’s pride, they did not think it disqualifying, especially where he wanted to change and was pursuing growth and making progress in that area. Even though we believed it was inappropriate for Brian to continue insisting upon his authority as an elder while his qualification was in question, Bob did not go against decisions they made where Bob was in the minority, and he continued inviting the involvement of Sovereign Grace to help resolve the impasses.
Accountability to Sovereign Grace
Through this process other issues emerged. As Brian and Tito describe in their addendum, they recently began expressing concern about the nature of Sovereign Grace’s authority over our church, suggesting that accountability can only truly exist if someone can step into our church and require the elders to obey them. We believe this doesn’t represent the accountability that we indeed do have. Sovereign Grace’s ability to remove affiliation with a church if any of our doctrines or practices go outside of our affiliation agreement with them is very significant accountability, not to mention the personal accountability that we have with each other, and, even more sobering, the accountability to God that the Bible tells each pastor they will have for the way they lead their church. Indeed, this whole process of inviting the help and insight of Sovereign Grace has been all about accountability.Plurality
Brian and Tito conclude in their letter that the chief issue is about the process by which decisions are made. But we have no difference of opinion about the core components of that process. We agree that decisions must be made by the eldership, with no man having more of a vote than another. We agree that each qualified elder has equal authority to govern. We agree that congregational input is not only important, but critical, and is an area we really need to grow in as a church. We agree that a formal process is necessary so that members of the church who have a serious concern against one of the pastors can have a fair hearing with an outside panel of Sovereign Grace pastors (and just such a process is currently being put into place by Sovereign Grace).As to how that process played itself out in our situation, Brian and Tito did not accept Sovereign Grace’s first attempt at resolving the question of who should govern by recommending that Kirk and Zach be added to the governing board until a third elder could be ordained. Although we did believe that Brian did not have biblical authority as an elder, Bob did not disregard his vote, nor did he regard Zach and Kirk any differently. There was also no point that Kirk, Zach or Bob sought to remove Brian or Tito from serving on staff at this church. Indeed, it was Brian who recommended to the Sovereign Grace representatives that Bob be removed as Senior Pastor of Grace Community Church, a move that significantly eroded trust and that Sovereign Grace did not support. Fundamentally, then, our disagreement is not over the process by which decisions are made, but over who is qualified to be on the governing board to make those decisions. This is the impasse that we reached.
Conclusion
There are certainly other issues that have been discussed over the past 14 months, and we would be happy to address any of those questions that members may have of us. We are aware of a number of claims circulating that we believe are mischaracterizations of things that have been said and done in this situation. If you have any questions or concerns about these things, please bring them to us so we can try to work through them together in a way that glorifies the Lord. We really want to see all the ways we have contributed to this situation. We need your help, as we do not see everything clearly in this crisis. God is showing us where we have lacked wisdom at points or been proud or defensive or anxious or not listened well. We really want to repent where we’ve sinned and learn from our mistakes.And so we pray that God will preserve this local church, and that he will continue maturing and growing us as pastors. We need your insight and your counsel, your encouragement and your concerns, your prayers and your burdens, for us and for this church. We are confident that God has great things in store for Grace Community, not because of who is pastoring, but because this is first and foremost Christ’s church. We are his people, and he will not abandon this church in its hour of greatest need. We thank you for the patience you have demonstrated thus far, and ask for your continued patience as we seek to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God, and to glorify the risen Christ above everything else.
Gratefully Yours,
Bob Donouhe
Zach Jones
Kirk Whitworth
Meanwhile, at Covenant Life Church, members were informed that C.J. Mahaney, with the help of mediators, is now working on “reconciling” with Josh Harris. This message was distributed yesterday:
September 14 2011 at 11:55 am
A Joint Statement from C.J. Mahaney and Joshua Harris
At the August 17 Members Meeting, I shared that C.J. had concerns with how we had been leading through this crisis. C.J. communicated that he wants to pursue reconciliation with us with the help of a mediator. What some of you might not know is that this week we met as a first step. The following is a joint statement that we prepared to explain the status of the process. Thank you for your prayers! – Joshua
We are grateful for all the people who have expressed support in prayer as C.J. Mahaney and Joshua Harris pursue reconciliation with the assistance of Ted Kober from Ambassadors of Reconciliation. Joshua was accompanied by his advisor Grant Layman. C.J. was accompanied by his advisor Phil Sasser.
While we both desire the mediation to occur, Joshua asked for the meetings to be postponed because of a difference on how matters of confidentiality will be handled. Normal mediation agreements involve a commitment not to share details of the mediation with anyone that does not have “necessary interest.” Both parties acknowledge that certain outcomes of the
mediation need to be shared with others, but we have different viewpoints on when and how that occurs.Nevertheless, C.J. and his advisor shared documents they had prepared outlining the categories of concern for Joshua and the pastors of Covenant Life.
Both parties agreed to share these documents only with the pastoral team of Covenant Life and the Board of Directors of Sovereign Grace. We have agreed to only share these documents with others with the permission of each other. We anticipate that there will be a time after some reflection and possible changes that these documents will be shared more broadly.
The next step in the process will be for the Covenant Life pastoral team to read, consider and pray over the documents C.J. has prepared in writing. We will then work on the next appropriate step for moving the mediation forward.
We ask for people’s prayers as we continue to work together toward resolution of our substantive issues and reconciliation of our personal relationships.
© 2011, Kris. All rights reserved.
As I read the announcement from CLC, I had a couple of thoughts off the top of my head.
First of all, maybe I’m clueless, but if you take everything CJ and Josh have said about one another over the past few months at face value, you would NEVER get the impression that the two of them were in the midst of some big gigantic rift that would necessitate the help of “advisors” and “mediators.” Yes, we know that Josh stepped down from SGM’s board, but that action was quickly followed by the schmaltzy blog post from Dave Harvey, assuring us that Josh and the board were in agreement on “99% of the issues.”
But now CJ is circulating “documents” of his own…that focus on Josh Harris? What happened to that “99% agreement”? And why weren’t these guys a bit more open and honest about what was really going on? I don’t know about the rest of you, but are professional mediators brought in if it’s not a big huge problem? And if Josh Harris and CJ Mahaney were having a big huge problem with one another, why did everyone seem to try and minimize that and pretend it wasn’t happening?
Also, does anyone join me in wondering who is footing the bill for all these mediators and peacemakers? Does CJ pay for this out of his own pocket, or is he asking whoever took Brent’s place to expense it for him, like that plane ticket for his son back in the day?
Finally, I can’t quite articulate this yet, but it seems to me there’s something sort of disturbingly aggressive about announcing that CJ Mahaney is “seeking reconciliation” with Josh Harris. I mean, this whole thing is being made to sound like “reconciliation” is CJ’s idea…and since “reconciliation” is viewed by Christians as ALWAYS a good thing, it’s like Josh Harris would be a big stubborn (and sinful!) meanie if he somehow got in the way of the Mahaney Reconciliation Train.
“Pursuing Reconciliation” is almost some sort of Christianized way of bullying the other person to agree with you. After all, what would most people’s impression be, if after this announcement that “CJ is pursuing reconciliation with Josh,” it turns out that they are unable to reconcile? Most people would automatically give CJ credit for “pursuing,” while they would wonder what Josh did to get in the way of the process.
“Pursuing Reconciliation” sounds so great. But if it means that one of the two people involved has to cave and start agreeing with the other person, it’s not necessarily godly. After all – what if one party is actually 100% RIGHT in his views? Think about that. What if Josh Harris is right and CJ is just…WRONG? But if CJ “pursues reconciliation,” Josh is almost strong-armed into compromising.
“At Covenant Life Church, members were informed that C.J. Mahaney, with the help of mediators, is now working on “reconciling” with Josh Harris.”
well if this is only about a reconciliation between two individuals (as opposed to abuse by CJ Mahaney perpetrated upon the church of Christ), then I am sure that the reconciliation is being paid for by these men out of their own pocket.
Right?
just going on record to say i ain’t the one who wrote that to kris *grin*
the whole “reconciliation” thing makes me sad – which really sucks ’cause reconciliation is supposed to be a GOOD thing, right?? it sounds like another word SGM has twisted to mean “I am going to not air all of my grievances with you and as a Christian you only have the “right” to respond with humility and accept with I have to say”. I mean, I am sure I’m guilty of it – when I sought out “reconciliation” with the Fairfax pastors I in my heart wanted them to hear my hurts and to affirm me.
Really, what would it hurt to let things be super open? You might have more speculation or people getting it wrong or making assumptions, but you’re going to have that ANYWAYS and at least if you’re more open people can base their assumptions on facts. :-p
This whole thing is disturbing to me, from Brent’s documents on down. There is something icky about the way these guys address each other. They use all the sanctified words and continue to talk about how much they love and serve one another … I don’t know. I wish I knew how to describe how this comes across to me.
It’s like they are very well-presented, controlled, ducks-all-in-a-row specimens (because that’s what we are all supposed to be as Christians, right?), talking all sanctified to one another, but underneath the surface lies something else. They can call their methods accountability and submitting to one another, but it feels more like piranhas who will hug you and give you a standing ovation one minute, then hunt you down and devour you the next with lists of sins and offenses. The subtext here is toxic, IMO. Feels like the whole organization has turned on itself.
Maybe someone else can put their finger on it better than I have here…
Oh, and just for the record – as someone who has been a member of the Ashburn church for years… It is hard for a lot of us that the issue seems to have been boiled down to polity, ’cause that’s not really the main issue to a lot of us. I am sure it is AFFECTING a lot of what went down there, but the real issue seems to be pride, not polity. The polity is only coming into question in order to have a “better system of governing”, the tools were there before, but some of the pastoral team were less likely to listen (to others on the team and people in the congregation). I mean I think polity is important, but it makes it sound like the root issues and reasons the church has gotten so broken that SO many of their church has left or are leaving aren’t sin. And… they are. Not “scandalous” sin like an affair or laundering money, but sin still the same.
So, despite having publicly stepped down with great tearful fanfare and having publicly walked away from CLC leaving Josh and others to clean up behind him and having actively or passively caused dissension within the CLC pastoral team… Despite all that CJ thinks he still has some standing to object to Josh’s leadership during a crisis HE caused? With his lackeys throwing mud at Brent and at dissenters for circulating and reading documents he circulates his own docs? Really, his grasp on reality is very tenuous. What an…OK, take a breath and don’t call names. But the guy is an embarrassment.
If his “sabbatical” or “season away” or “time of re-evaluation” means anything, it means that he is releasing the reins of authority for a while. Looks to me like he’s grabbing them back. Saying to Josh (and others) “OK, just don’t forget that I OWN you.”
I agree with you Kris, CJ is participating in a type of bullying with this whole reconciliation talk. But I do think, in the midst of their secrecy, there have been subtle indications of their conflict.
I feel like I heard Josh reference conflict with CJ, in the members meetings, one of which was referenced in the letter.
One thing that stood out too me strongly in one of the members’ meetings was a question of why CJ was not present at Josh’s non-apology. Josh’s answer stated that CJ had told Josh he didn’t agree with how Josh was handling things and he would therefore not attend his meeting. Josh also stated that he and CJ had agreed to disagree on how to run CLC many times over the years. This isn’t as clear as we might like, but once your ears are tuned in to their secrecy, it speaks volumes to me.
Josh, to me, is a normal, level headed individual who has been indoctrinated in SGM. I have hope for him. CJ, on the other hand, I cannot say the same for. How long will Josh invest his energy in his relationship with this narcisist before he sees things for what they are and moves on.
I don’t know. Sometimes when I read how they talk with one another I want to say “Man up, will you?” Talk like a man, not a flowery godly person wannabe. Sometimes I would absolutely love it if they would be real and (horror of horrors) rant and rave in complete anger. I think I’d feel relieved–that yes, these men really are real people, not just men trying to be some image they have in their mind of what a “biblical” christian is that is just so out of whack with what is real. It’s like it is a chore to read through their statements they put out and the way they talk with one another. Whatever happened to “Let your yes be yes….” Just pure and simple words? Sorry, just feeling irritated today. Not godly irritated, not biblical irritated, but just plain ole’ irritated! :wink:
Phoenix,
The oddest part of CJ admitting to his own sins (which he could not specifically articulate and saying he had not yet fully understood), there were NO tears. No tearful fanfare.
CJ gave probably the most painful speech of his life and NO TEARS.
That’s the disturbing part.
Ask former SG pastors what happens when you piss off your boss.
Just sayin’
Brent’s a’Bloggin’
New post up on his site.
Sometimes, it takes me a few days to process what I read here, and when time comes to comment, you all have moved on. But Kris has graciously stated that it is okay to go off topic as long as we don’t go political….:)
The question was thrown out posts ago about the purpose for this blog. I have a lot of thoughts I could throw out but there is one I really want to make strongly.
I doubt that the person throwing out that question really “gets” the “cult-like control your thinking nature of SGM”, if they got that, they wouldn’t have to ask. But for those of us who have gone through the process of “getting” it….this blog helps us all realize we are not crazy.
So, to you wife, who sees things you are just now putting your finger on and your husband doesn’t YOU ARE NOT CRAZY.
You, teen, or young adult who grew up in SGM and find yourself internally at odds with your loved ones whom you love dearly but can’t see eye to eye with…YOU ARE NOT CRAZY.
You single who has been so thankful for the deep freindships you have and suddenly can’t agree with your friends on the topic of the church…YOU ARE NOT CRAZY.
That is a very, very important role of this blog in the lives of those of us healing from the spiritual abuse incurred by SGM, helping us to realize…WE ARE NOT CRAZY! (But we are free indeed, thank you Jesus!) (and thank you Guy & Kris!)
Gracie,
I totally know what you mean!
I wonder if these guys even come close to seeing how cheesy and downright weird their talk sounds to the rest of us once the TRUTH (like this “in need of reconciliation” thing between CJ and Josh) comes out.
Someone emailed me the other day with this observation, which I truly think would make a great post all its own:
Sidney, good point about the lack of tears. Sometimes I get a bit carried away with my own rhetoric; although doesn’t alter my main point. I agree with you that the tearlessness in this instance is disturbing. Demonstrates that CJ doesn’t have normal affect–which is typical of narcissists and sociopaths. It is sad, really.
A whole religion founded on one man’s emptiness.
In the meantime, the lost don’t hear, the poor are not helped, the hungry aren’t filled, the hurting are not comforted, the sheep aren’t fed, etc., etc., etc. Anybody see a problem here? Anybody see a consistent pattern?
Thank you “Not Going Back” for what you said about not going crazy. I’m still a SG member, mainly because I love the people and the pastors. I don’t agree with everything that has gone on/is going on. And I realize soon I will need to make a decision about going or staying instead of being wishy washy on the fence.
Though I don’t post much, I feel like I have read most posts and a large sampling of comments over the years, here and at Refuge. I was well versed on the issues before this CJ thing broke, but chose not to disclose what I read to SG friends. Now, since things are public, I very selectively send them links to neutral resources like the excellent SG timeline, the Washington Post article and Josh’s family meeting on “reducing beliefs to a single practice” back in May or so before this all broke.
I have been amazed by how little people care, and how much they have their blinders on. I’ve heard comments ranging from “it doesn’t affect me” to “the pastors will take care of it so I don’t need to know too much about it”. I doubt half the links I’ve sent have even been read.
I believe that SG is not all bad, that many positive things bringing people closer to Christ have happened throughout the years. These things can’t be invalidated. But today is a new day, and sticking one’s head in the sand will not make the problems any less real. Maybe if polity is changed,and new guidelines issued for pastors helping people in crisis and conflict resolution, things will get better. But pretending nothing is wrong won’t make this happen.
Here we go again! My hope is that the remaining loyalist to the cult/new religious movement (NLR)/high demand group (pick your favorite term)known as sgm will answer these wake up calls. I think it was DB who mentioned the song “Wake Up” by Rage Against The Machine a few years ago and that song seems to fit well! For those that don’t know the song, it’s also the track used at the end credits of The Matrix.
I keep thinking about this verse:
LK 12:1 Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2 There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 3 What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
That is EXACTLY what is happening. We have not seen the end of what will come out yet.
although the shedding of tears doesn’t indicate anything necessarily genuine either as Fairfax has shown no genuine sorrow after the academy award worthy performance of Lou Gallo. Tears and then shunning of the family he was weeping over…
Also, listening to the Ashburn pastor who was announcing the pastors departing, he went on and on about his sin, if they are so aware of their sins, why don’t any of them step down??
Made a typo on my previous post – New Religious Movements should be shortened to NLM.
Happymom – all these pastor talking about their own “sin” makes me think of Jimmy Swaggart’s “I Have Siiiiiiiined” back in the day. Academy Award highlight clip!!!!!
So true, Roadwork, my friend. And I think it formulates a good question for those still inside SGM to ask themselves. You and I and other survivors know that it is HARD WORK to be an active part of an SGM church. And I don’t just mean in the “spiritual” sense. I mean hours of labor, not getting enough sleep, always feeling behind, living in a fog of overstressed fatigue WORK. Working hard for a worthy cause is a good thing. So here’s the question for current SGM folks.
Do you really feel that your hard, faithful labor at SGM is comforting the sick, reaching the lost, feeding the hungry, visiting those in prison, feeding the sheep, doing good to the least of these? Or is it just furthering an empty man-based organization? Don’t you want your hard work to count?
Gracie, I think you put your finger on it just fine.
not-gbe #12…excellent post. And yes, Josh really needs our prayers.
Phoenix 14- yup.
Kris, excellent as usual.
*****
Isn’t it obvious that CJ is doing whatever it takes to stay on the conference circuit with the big dogs? Does anybody really think this is about reconciliation with Josh? In order to stay on center stage at T4G and Gospel Coalition, CJ must do this.
Now, instead of being the kid who picked up his toys and stomped out of the room, he is the one pursuing reconciliation. Duncan and Dever and all the rest can point and say “look, CJ is a good man of God, he is trying hard to reconcile”.
It is sickening. But as NGBE said, people just don’t get the cult like control and thinking in SGM.
Don’t kid yourself, this is a huge deal for all the guys at the top who have enabled CJ’s rise in the national Reformed circles, and if CJ ends up looking like the wicked and immature man that he really is, they look gullible and undiscerning themselves. Mohler, Dever, Duncan, Trueman, Piper, Challies, etc. We have two guys representing Reformed Seminaries, best selling authors and teachers. This is so much bigger than CJ. CJ MUST come out of this looking like the good guy. The reputation of a national organization is seriously threatened.
I don’t know what it’ll take for true repentance and truth at the top levels. And God who does not want to hurt the wheat, may allow the what and tares to grow together a while longer. God may not uproot any of this right now, to protect a lot of young wheat out there. God knows best if the tares remain.
What a total freaking mess. If I did not believe in the perfect and good sovereignty of God over His church I would get so cynical. But He will work even this for good.
@Phoenix #6: :word
My first reaction to this is that CJ is [again] trying to get the focus OFF of his Brent document issues.
He’s now made this personal between him and Josh.
The bigger picture issues of CJ life have now taken a back seat.
Point CJ.
It’s interesting that even though CJ is the person who seems to be the one with all the grievances in this “mediation” process, Josh is the one seeking more openness and disclosure. CJ knows that any legitimate opportunity for people to be given all the facts and allowed judge for themselves would not end favorably for him. When CJ puts things in writing, it just gets makes him appear more disconnected with reality. That’s why, to me, the most damaging part of the Detwiler documents was not Brent’s commentary but CJ’s own words, starting with the very first email he sent Brent (humbly seeking the possibility of considering whether he might discover an isolated grievance with which he agrees that he may, after being appropriately convicted by the mysterious forces within him, have to seek forgiveness for).
Please go back and look at the post again – I have edited it to include the two letters which were sent out to the Ashburn church. I believe these are the “documents that are circulating” referenced by the person who originally emailed me with this info.
I know this is one of those statements that will make some people mad, but I just gotta say – it’s really starting to feel like CJ has lost touch with reality. CJ got mad at Josh for how he led CLC during a crisis that CJ himself caused. Now he’s turning it around to make it seem like Josh is the bad guy? How mixed up is CJ in his thinking, anyway?
And how did he manage to surround himself with so many enablers who are permitting this foolishness? I am embarrassed for them. Really. All their talk about mediators and “advisors” seems insane, considering that this whole conflict came about because of CJ’s behavior.
I guess what I’m trying to say in my #25 is, didn’t CJ sort of relinquish his right to complain about the other leaders once he “stepped away for a season of reflection,” or whatever it’s supposed to be?
Would a truly humble person find fault with his treatment during a time when he’s supposed to be figuring out his OWN sins?
Once again, it’s like CJ has the biggest sense of entitlement anyone could imagine.
Kris wrote: CJ got mad at Josh for how he led CLC during a crisis that CJ himself caused. Now he’s turning it around to make it seem like Josh is the bad guy? How mixed up is CJ in his thinking, anyway?
Me: This is classic narcissism.
There is more drama in sgm and it’s denomination than a prime time soap! CJ as JR Ewing and Josh the boy wonder as Bobby Ewing……….
Kris, my point precisely. It seems as though CJ has actually rendered himself incapable of hearing what he doesn’t want to hear. Unable to think about anything except in relation to himself. At this point he reminds me of one of those little dictator types who would be laughable if he wasn’t so destructive; strutting around in a fictional uniform; sticking out a chest full of gaudy fictional medals. Willing to take down his little country because it’s all genocidally about HIM.
So, OK, let him strut. QUIT enabling.
All right, I’m going to breathe and go get another cup of coffee.
OK, one more. Drunk on his own Koolaid.
Just want to clarify that in my post above I do not mean that the Reformed big dogs enabling CJ are tares. I have no reason to say at this point that they are not genuine Christians and genuine pastors. I happen to think CJ is a false apostle, but I do not mean that the others are. Gullible and deceived maybe, undiscerning certainly, but still true pastors.
“For what it’s worth” said that not all things about SGM are bad. I totally agree. All the more reason we need this blog. Things are much easier when we need to turn from something that is ALL bad. Like sin, drugs, adultery, addiction…fill in the blank. It is pretty cut and dry, repent, turn, flee…but we need help sorting things out when it isn’t all bad.
God met us there…amazingly, and although he could have met me in other circumstances, and taught me lessons in other ways, for some reason he didn’t chose too. Although, the lessons I learned in spite of SGM (his love is soo strong, he sanctifies me, I don’t sanctify myself) etc are much more powerful lessons, I still grew under what I learned there…so, sifting through, and asking God to blow away the chaff is MUCH harder than just trashing it all.
Not to mention the people, I can’t just kick them to the curb either, they are a composite of “work in progress”, with marks of their Maker in them too.
Current CLC Members:
Would you please ask your pastors WHO on earth is paying for all this?
I mean…I assume CJ is still getting his hefty benes package even while he no long works for SGM or attends or is affiliated with any SGM church. That’s bad enough.
But, who is footing the bill for the HOURS upon HOURS of time all of this PERSONAL crap is taking?
Has anyone pointed out yet the irony of Josh seeking to slow the process because he has a problem with the confidentiality requirements of reconciliation? And has anyone noticed that there’s at least a potential conflict that Josh’s advisor is married to CJ’s sister?
Phoenix, I would go one further:
If your “church” isn’t comforting the sick, reaching the lost, feeding the hungry, visiting those in prison, feeding the sheep, doing good to the least of these, is it really a church?
I know that there are organizations that do these “works” that aren’t churches, but what if your “church” doesn’t do these things?
Is it really a church? That’s a valid question. Maybe it was at one time, but now?
So here’s another thought: Are these “shepherds”, such as Richmond and Ashburn, so willing to hold on to power that they’re willing to sacrifice half their flock to the SGM system?
Could I be grossly over-simplifying things to say that it seems to me one disagreement seemingly common to all of these (CJ/JOSH, ASHBURN/BRIAN&TITO/SGM/ as well as others seems to be over whether or not to share anything at all with the congregation whom it greatly affects? That just makes no sense to me. It reminds me of back in the 50’s, when some sheisty businessman would say, “Now, Little Missy, you don’t need to worry your pretty little head over details like that. You leave them to me, and I’ll take care of it.” We found that so offensive then, why woudl anyone accept it now? I could be wrong here, but it appears to me that it is NOT Josh who is wanting to keep things secret..Brent’s blog speaks of the difference between arbitration and mediation, with mediation being the action requiring an agreement between both parties of anything being revealed or not. Seems like that, while not the basis of the issue in Ashburn, it could have brought a resolution to the issue if people had been willing to bring an issue before the congregation for arbitration. I understand they want to be “an elder led church”, but, if an elder comes from within a church, why couldn’t there be ‘appointed’ from within the same church a small group of respected and trusted (by congregation and pastors) members to help in resolving issues at an impasse? Wouldn’t that be “utilizing’ more of ‘the gifts within the body of Christ’? Some people, who may be ‘gifted’ in ‘leading, inspiring’ others, yet some people, while not ‘qualified’, or desiring to ‘lead people’, can excel in conflict resolution. Does that sound too simplistic, or too ‘normal’ to have happen in an SGM Church? :scratch
CJ has a lot of nerve confronting Josh. I thought the congregation had no input in an “Elder led government”. Isn’t CJ a part of the congregation? Or is he Josh’s boss? We can’t have it both ways.
Oswald, :goodpost
Anonforchristianfreedom, I was trying to remember the relation Grant had to CJ! He certainly has himself surrounded and fortified in his little empire, doesn’t he?
So let me get this straight. CJ hand-selected Josh to mentor him to take his lofty position. Why Josh Harris? Why not someone within CLC? Regardless, he selected Josh. Josh moved in with the family and was mentored for years before CJ passed the reigns to Josh. Over the years SGM leaders tried to get CJ to admit to pride issues, etc. Brent’s documents become public which highlight the extent of CJs pride and bullying authoritarian style (from multiple witnesses). CJ refused to deal with these issues. After public disclosure of Brent’s documents, CJ then takes a leave (still gets paid), gets to go to another church (even though he is a member of CLC and should remain there), is under the “care” of another pastor OUTSIDE OF THE SGM EMPIRE. CJ says it’s a time of reflection for him to address his sins. Tell me this, how can he be looking inward at himself and his sins and at the same time: “Nevertheless, C.J. and his advisor shared documents they had prepared outlining the categories of concern for Joshua and the pastors of Covenant Life.”
SAY WHAT?? He has not been looking/addressing his own sins, he’s been preparing documents against the SGM Empire HE created. And, he’s getting paid to write these documents???? Something is skewed. Get him off the payroll! If there was ever a time to stop tithing to SGM, it should be now. This man is so arrogant, he most likely hasn’t spent even minutes looking at himself if this is what he has come up with. He has lied to his “followers” about the purpose of his leave if he is spending it creating documents against CLC/Josh.
And what is this business about mediation with Josh/CLC? Why is CJ getting to call the shots as far as mediation with CLC? Is CJ somehow above church discipline? Is this a business or a church?
For What It’s Worth @#16 — I totally agree with your observations. I also am still a member and I find people don’t want to hear what i have to say either. They really think the pastors know what they are doing, as if they have a plan in place to fix everything, when in reality they have no clus what they are going to do.
Someone above referred to CJ as an embarrassment, and I agree. I’ve always felt a little uncomfortable when he visited our church because of the way they made such a fuss over him, as if he was really our ‘Pope’
All the things that have happened in the last few months (that’s all I know of) is so very distressing. I think Josh was so spot on when he said that God was “spanking us” (SGM/CLC)
Wina #8. :goodpost
And kinda reminds me of when Paul cast the spirit of divination out of the girl running around them with godtalk. The bible doesn’t even say, Paul, filled with the Spirit or anything, it just says Paul, sorely annoyed! He probably would have cast it out sooner but I think he may have been trying, I mean ‘seeking’ to avoid retaliation as long as possible.
:wink:
@Pheonix #14: Or no tears may be typical of what you see when your children are told they need to apologize to a sibling. They carry through with the words, but if they’re still carrying the attitude of “I am the one who’s being wronged here!” they voice the words and quickly move on. Can’t help but wonder if CJ disagreed with needing to make a confession to CLC, but the other pastors pushed him on stage.
Whirlwind @#43 — Good observation.
here is my short version coming some the a mechanics simple mind..
reguarding CJ & Josh …… CJ wants revenge for being exposed and haveing his kingdom fall
@5years #21: That’s a great reminder about the wheat and tares growing together for the good of the wheat.
It’s interesting to note the delay in meeting with the mediator – one side is concerned to keep information private while the other side thinks information should be shared.
Sure, there’s always some information better left to the parties involved, but here’s what’s interesting. It seems CJ has complaints about Josh and the other pastors, so if those complaints came out, it would potentially damage Josh and the pastors – presumably, not CJ. However, Josh seems less concerned about this than CJ. Perhaps CJ is trying to serve Josh by guarding Josh’s reputation when Josh isn’t aware it needs guarding. :)
Just saw #23 – sorry for duplicating the idea – I’ll go back to reading all the comments before posting. :oops:
@I Am Error #23 –
As a paraphrase, that’s priceless! That is right up there with the quote from the Vietnam War era attributed to either Richard M. Nixon or former ambassador Robert McCloskey – “I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
I think these SGM guys need to find and read a book on how to avoid telling the truth without sounding like a complete dork. It would help them make their childish attempts at covering up their bull***t and backstabbing a little more convincing.
What is interesting to me, from my take on the Auburn papers, is that all the while SGM and others are claiming that SGM has no ability to enforce any controls on each local SGM, they lay the ground work for just that. Why was it necessary to put others from outside the Auburn church on the elder board?
I am assuming that while Brian may have failed the oral part of the ordination test, that he passed the written part? I am also assuming that since Brian and Tito said in their first letter that they “helped establish the church along with many of you”, that they were the founding pastors? If so, now because they disagree with the “senior pastor”, Brian is not gifted to be a pastor?
There seems to be some cognitive dissonance going on here. No, SGM on paper may not have any direct authority in the local church, but when necessary they put their “chess pieces” in play to get what they want and thwart the legitimate pastors and throw them under the bus, thinking that they are making themselves look to be without blame and in the right.
Any local church seeking an association with SGM had better think twice. It will no longer be THEIR church if they discover down the line that SGM isn’t all they thought it was. They will have no say whatsover. SGM will get what they want.
Oh Leo!!! What a visual – this is OH SO TRUE!!!