C.J. Mahaney’s Church Membership Officially (Though Temporarily) Transferred
February 27, 2012 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
Below is a message sent to Covenant Life Church members today:
———————-
Dear Members of Covenant Life,
We are writing to update you regarding another important moment in the events of the last eight months.
Last month when his leave of absence as President of Sovereign Grace Ministries ended, C.J. Mahaney wrote the elders of Covenant Life informing us of his decision to transfer his membership to Solid Rock Church. At that time we told C.J. that the elders would like to meet with him and discuss several concerns that we had for him, as well as hear his questions and concerns for us.
This past Friday, Grant, Josh and Robin met with C.J. along with two members of the Sovereign Grace Board and had an honest conversation. We began by asking C.J. to share his concerns and disagreements with our leadership over the past eight months, and then we shared our concerns and questions for some of his actions and statements during that same time. We felt the Lord gave grace for everyone to speak forthrightly and listen to each other. We believe this meeting was an important step, though it confirmed that we have different perspectives on what has unfolded since last July.
Having had the opportunity to meet with C.J., we have agreed, with sadness, to accept and support his membership transfer. C.J. has communicated to us that he no longer thinks the formal mediation he requested last fall is needed (this mediation was going to be led by Ted Kober and was to address differences C.J. had with the pastors’ public leadership in response to the release of Brent Detwiler’s documents). We are grateful that we’ve been able to talk together, and we expect there will be further dialogue. Because we understand there will be questions on these matters, we have scheduled another “Coffee and Questions” night for [Time & Date Edited]. We’ve created a simple form to allow you to submit your questions in advance of the meeting.
C.J. has communicated his love and appreciation for Covenant Life and that he believes God is leading him into a new season of pastoral ministry. C.J. has told us that his time at Solid Rock will be brief as he plans to plant a new church in another state later this year. Details of those plans will be announced by Sovereign Grace in the coming months.
We pray God’s blessing on C.J. and his family. We will always be grateful for his service to this church.
If you want to talk further about this, we hope you can come to the “Coffee and Questions” night on [Date], and as always, feel free to contact your pastor.
Sincerely,
The pastors of Covenant Life
© 2012, Kris. All rights reserved.
Well, well, well, this is completely, absolutely, and in all other ways unsuprising!!!! That’s all I got for now.
Lost in #183 on the last thread –
The head guy across the river in Fairfax was preaching in Frederick two Sundays ago. His topic was part of the series they are preaching at Fairfax. At Soverign Grace Church of Fairfax, MM is also exhorting his congregation from the pulpit! But he is batting for the other team :)
Their series for the last couple of months has been “Go into the World”. Unlike the kool-aid churches with their G&S program and their charitable judgement indoctrination and their “assume the best” approach to CJ’s sins, Fairfax has preached on “The Calling of the Church”, Healing, Missions, and the Power of the Spirit, (and I hear they are starting to invite the Holy Spirit back into their congregation). On the marquee out front under the “coming attractions” section…”False Teachers Threaten the Church“. All of these messages are available from their website.
Needless to say the boys across the river are throwing in with the CLC bunch instead of the SGM bunch. So with that kind of message coming out of Fairfax, I doubt the Frederick Church is looking for more G&S or Charitable Judgement lessons. Chris Silard did not invite Loftness nor the newly re-installed Potentate of SGM.
I haven’t spoken to anyone from Frederick yet, but like Jesus said in Mt 16:2, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast. You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times,’ and I can tell from the sermon topics it will not be clear sailing for CJ/Harvey/Loftness in yet another SGM church.
:clap
Wow! My initial thoughts———
Will CLC be as gracious to me and my family when we leave?
Will CLC send CJ on his way with any over the top severence package like they did with Bradshaw and Chesmore, his precious son-in-laws?
———CJ, you may be gone, but your DNA and verbage is still flowing madly through CLC!
intheNICKoftime,
# 2 –
That’s great, maybe Sr. Pastor Mark Mullery can go into all the world, find the child victims of sex abuse that suffered under his watch and minister to them and ALL the families that have been kicked to the curb by him and his staff.
well that’s just great.
so the wimpy-cowardly-leader-weakling gets to do what no other pastor in sgm history has been allowed to do – escape athority, and run… not deal w/ the issues related to his own actions, and not have to follow his own teachings and directions that he has made others, far more innocent, follow for decades… Interesting…
People in sovereign grace ministries…. i know most of you love CJ.. but if you still respect him, and support him, i must say you are completely blind, deceived, and i feel very sorry for you….
I am hoping that this announcement does not take place immediately before T4G, or at T4G itself.
This is substantiating evidence that CJ submits to no one, not to the CLC elders, not to Ted Kober, and most definitely not to the members of the body of Christ at CLC. He will maintain control of the situation at any cost. I only wish the elders of CLC would have deferred to the members of CLC regarding their decision to give CJ a free pass to transfer his membership without consequence….. or would have at least asked the church’s opinion.
This would have been a great opportunity for the elders at CLC to put into practice their new values…..Jesus ruled, elder led, congregation accountable. I wonder what opinion the body of Christ at CLC would have voiced in this matter? I guess the venue for doing this is the “Coffee and Questions” meeting. Brothers and sisters at CLC, if that is the venue for your voice to be heard then I pray you will speak out. What you have to say as the body of Christ regarding this matter is extremely important. Many of us will be praying that God gives you strength, courage, and wisdom.
Can’t you almost her it? Can’t you almost hear what clc WANTED to say in their letter?
They know CJ is in grave error and sin, by his own words and teaching, they know he is at the very pinnacle of hypocrisy….
They want to say it, but yet, they want to defer from maligning their founder who has done so much for their church… I can understand that…
Remember the (now, apparently false) testimony of Larry’s sin in leaving the church? The letter sent out to all, and read in every church? Shouldn’t such a letter be sent, now, a truthful one in this case, about CJ running away, not submitting to authority? Shouldn’t SGM be put on notice for supporting such action….?
I think CJ should be disciplined, and if any other pastor has ever been excommunicated, and they have, for far lesser sins, and no sins at all, the CJ should be too!
This is just sickening….
Who could possibly choose to stay in such a (bowel) “movement?”
I think this is a good thing for SGM , now there is better chance for change……
“… he believes God is leading him into a new season of pastoral ministry”
I wonder who made this decision?
I sent in a question for their meeting on March 7th. As a member of an SGM church, although not CLC, I hope they answer it, in some form. I asked “Why was CJ released to transfer his membership when he disagreed with those in authority over him, when many, many others in Sovereign Grace Ministries churches have been encouraged (some would say not forced) to stay in place until the disagreement was settled? It really looks like a double standard. For some of those “high up” in SGM, a different set of rules/policies apply.”
I find it interesting that the leadership at CLC has called the evening for the church body to seek more information, “Coffee and Questions night.” Really? I would feel pretty belittled to attend something like that. I’m an adult. I would just want the facts. Skip the coffee. I think this is a little more serious of a development than something that falls in the category of “coffee and questions.” Does anyone else agree? Is this more spin?
“C.J. has communicated to us that he no longer thinks the formal mediation he requested last fall is needed”. WTF What can this possibly mean? I have some ideas, but wonder what anyone else gets from this. I think he’s afraid of what Mr. Kober might say, as the mediator.
Kris or Guy…just curious….
Do you have any idea how many unique users are reading this site from the Gaithersburg/Mecca area? I suppose there is no way to guess how many folks at a particular church are reading the comments, right? You have any amazing maps of the geographic locales of the users? I’d love to see that sort of info. I wonder if there is a big cluster by various churches.
Mole #7 — Amen, brother! I had not read any posts before writing my #13. Many good posts here.
CovFel has a family meeting next Sunday evening, Mar 4th. I wonder if this news about CJ will be part of what we hear. If it is, there will no doubt be great spin on it. As if it’s REALLY a good thing.
Just for fun, the history of Solid Rock Church by the founding pastor. This has been posted before but maybe some of you missed it. Long. Hey FF, hope you are well and walking in joy.
*********
http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/07/27/bye-brent/#comments (posts # 45 & 70)
FriendlyFire says:
July 30, 2009 at 12:38 am
I just found this site a few weeks ago. Amazing! You guys should have been around 20 years ago when the “friendly fire” wounded and almost took my life. I was a senior pastor in the DC area of a church that willingly submitted to PDI (now SGM) to be an “adopted” church. We got the “short straw” and Brent became our “apostle.”
At the time I was leading the church and its building program and Brent left me alone to get our building completed (for nearly two years). Two weeks after we dedicated the building in 1989, Brent, Mickey C, and two other leaders I had discipled, met with me in my office and told me I was proud, unteachable, self-centered, contentious, and unqualified to lead the church that I had founded 14 years before.
I never denied those accusations were from time to time true in my life, but that is not who I was. I had willingly submitted myself to accountability to the brothers, and like any committed Christian was working out my faith with fear and trembling.
Nevertheless, they gave me two weeks to find a job and hit the road. (That was modified later because my father died inside the two weeks, which gave them a little time to reconsider and have “pity” on me.) Their plan for “restoration” was for me to become the church janitor and handyman at a reduced salary and submit to Mickey as my pastor and continued input from Brent.
Somehow I hung in there (in a miserable depressed, thought of suicide, state) for nearly a year. One highlight I remember, after being labeled as a “proud” man, Brent stood before my church and told them that the sin of pride was worse than the sin of adultery (I wanted to melt into the floor). Too many other details to share of all the isolation, abuse, “curses” and guilt trips Brent and Mickey laid on me during that time. Countless nightmares of church meetings with Brent and Mickey (and other SGMers) rejecting and ridiculing me; I lost count of the times I woke up screaming and crying for God’s mercy (lasted weekly for more than two years)!
At first I thought they really loved me and wanted to help me overcome the sins and weaknesses in my life. I willingly submitted to their role as “Holy Spirit” in my live. I made no waves in the local church. I rocked no boats. I willingly submitted to excommunication from a church full of people I had led to the Lord and fathered in the faith. I would soon found out I had been nearly mortally wounded by “friendly fire!”
Why? Because the apostle, Brent, knew what was best for me and my church. While I was working myself to exhaustion finishing a church building and leading the church, he was slowly and skillfully winning the hearts of Mickey (my assistant pastor at the time) and my other leaders. He adeptly convinced them I was unworthy and unqualified to lead the church and must step down. He made a pronouncement over me one day that I should have NEVER been a pastor (even though I had been ordained 17 years before and had seen the success and blessings of God on my ministry). Brent knew best though and I was thrown away.
I have too many details to bore all of you with. Suffice it to say, Brent’s exposure of abuse, legalism, and impersonating the Holy Spirit is 20 years too late in coming.
I suppose some of you think that all the other leaders in SGM were oblivious to his ungodly behavior over all these years. I suppose Mickey never saw these ungodly traits over the last 22 years of interaction. I appealed to every leader in existence 20 years ago and they ALL (except Larry T) turned deaf ears to my plight. If it had not been for Larry and Doris, my wife and I would have surely been spiritually shipwrecked.
By the way, they used the same “playbook” to get rid of Larry that they used on me. Tell a man of God that he is proud, unteachable, and contentious — then no matter what he does or says in regards to explanation or defense — he fulfills their diagnosis and proves their point. Once diagnosed you can NEVER be good enough again!
Yes, all the “apostles” including CJ, Steve, Gene, etc. have known for years who the real Brent was and is, and they obviously covered it up and turned a deaf ear to the many complaints. How could that be? Only God knows for sure, but maybe it is because they did not find anything wrong with the way Brent conducted himself. Maybe it was the way they conducted themselves, too. Maybe it was the way they believed God would have them treat people. Maybe they were sincerely trying to love and lead the church according to their interpretation of the Word. Maybe they really believed that they are God’s gift (of the Holy Spirit) to all those under their care.
I cannot judge their hearts or their motives, but I can judge what they did to me and my family, and MANY others I have known through the years, and what I read they have continued to do to so many of you who write in this blog. They have left many, many precious people dead and dying in the trenches through their misguided and misdirected “friendly fire!”
May God have mercy on them and those they have wounded! I believe the church would be better off if the whole lot would resign tomorrow and the doors of their “churches” would close for GOOD!
Yes, I still love the Lord and am walking with Him, but I do walk with a limp.
****
FriendlyFire says:
July 31, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Keepinstep… thought provoking questions about WHY I turned everything over to PDI/SGM in 1989. (no short explanation) First, you must understand there was not 20 years of documented abuse and scandals involving the “A” Team. I had been friends with most of the leaders of TAG [“Take and Give” ministries – the forerunner of “Gathering of Believers” and “People of Destiny” (PDI) for more than 10 years.] We loved God and each other and saw a need for renewal in the church with authentic Christianity that promoted committed relationships and accountability with the Lord and one another. We had very similar visions. There was sincere mutual respect for each other and our ministries.
Within that context, Larry and CJ were highly esteemed and respected in the DC area among the young, up and coming church leaders. They offered a fresh voice of what the church was all about and the need for a “community of believers” built together, not just a big pile of “stones” in the same place. I didn’t even know Brent when I went to Larry and CJ and asked them to consider allowing myself and the church I had founded 12 years before to become a part of PDI. Brent was a relatively new face in the DC area.
I had thought (because of my lengthy relationship with Larry) that he would be the “apostle” that would work with us. Things would no doubt have turned out very differently, but it was not to be. Brent got the assignment in 1987 and went to work undermining the loyalties of my leaders.
I had brought Mickey into full-time ministry a few years earlier in 1984 as my assistant pastor. We shared the ministry and were like brothers – before Brent. I was too busy in 1987 through 1989 building our new church facility to notice what was happening behind the scenes. By the time they set me down and told me I “no longer qualified to be their pastor and lead the church,” it was too late – Brent was in control. The men that were my closest friends saw in Brent the new order. I no longer had their ears or hearts. Brent had convinced them I was “unworthy” and they needed a new leader. I think they sincerely thought they were trying to help me and do what was right – thus my handle – “FriendlyFire.” Mickey was tapped and accepted the call of Brent to take over.
Could I have fought for the church I founded and had led for 14 years? Was I still the spiritual “father” of the church? Did I have a right to stay and pastor my spiritual children? YES, to all of those questions. BUT, I really felt the Lord showed me that if I made a claim to my fatherhood to this church, it would be destroyed and the sheep would be scattered. (the Solomon story about the two women who laid claim to the same baby inspired me to let the “baby” live, even if it were in the possession of an imposter)
That all probably sounds a little silly and naive now, but it helped me release the church without killing it off. The church went on to be re-indoctrinated in Brent’s brand of Calvinism/Reformedism.
After all these years and after reading all the junk that has taken place as a result of these misguided “Godplayers,” I sometimes wish I had gone ahead and blown the whole thing up – the lesser of evils.
I wasn’t “dazzled” by anyone, it was a whole different era, it was the beginning of the sorrows so many of you have shared on. There was no reason to be skeptical or to believe the worst in those days.
And, YES, – On the Healing Journey – I was the founding pastor of Solid Rock Church and had been close to Benny in Fairfax – BEFORE he got the axe!
FYI – the impact of my experience with Brent, Mickey, CJ and others, was so devastating I was never able (after 17 years of full-time ministry) to get back into full time ministry or pastoring again. Needless to say it has given me much more time to pastor my wife and family of six children, for which I am grateful.
In the last few weeks (since discovering this site), I have been thinking new thoughts. Thoughts that make me grateful I got out (even though not by choice) when I did; so my family and I did not have to grow up with the toxic influences so many have endured over the last 20 years. That is a totally different perspective for me.
To all who have expressed prayers, empathy, and hugs – THANKS – it means much, even after all these years! Who knows, maybe the limp can be healed, too! (sorry for the lack of brevity)
So this was “his(C.J.’s)decision?” As others have said, doesn’t this go against all he has taught. Shouldn’t CJ have at least sought counsel from other board members and CLC pastors about this “decision?” Isn’t their wisdom in a multitude of counselors?
Another example of rules that C.J. Mahaney imposed on others don’t apply to him.
What about C.J. seeking God as to what he should do here? It sure sounds like more of a C.J. decision than a seek the Lord decision IMO.
This whole thing just gets more and more interesting. I will not be surprised if this gets annouced at T4G and the whole crowd gives him a standing ovation for his humbleness during this time and how amazing God’s grace is that he will plant another church. SGM has deeply caused my walk with God to be down. I just don’t see how the big reformed dogs support this man. Oh, thats right, its all about the money. Thats really all these dogs care about. I really don’t think sgm can be saved. The ship is sinking and I can see in ship sink to its death come March when the AoR reports comes out. However, few will stay because their sgm churches will repeat over and over again they themselves are sinners too.
the emperor truly has no clothes
Oswald @ 13 –
I wonder what that means as well? It’s interesting that all these moves by CJ are happening before the AoR report comes out in March. I’m also wondering if CJ will adhere to any of the suggestions that the three panels put forth in their reports. It seems like CJ is riding off into the sunset as fast as he can. Is someone else going have to clean up the mess that he has created???
It will be interesting to see Brent’s response to this news. There are probably others from past involvement in SGM who will have something to say. How could they hold their tongues? This is appalling.
Hi all. So, here’s the question. Does this now set precedence (in lawyer-eese language) for how a SGM church member can exercise their church membership affiliation based on their level of agreement (or disagreement) with their local pastoral authority? After all, C.J. is the head of SGM, and he does set the standard for the movement, right? Just wondering.
It’s been a long while since I’ve had time to read or comment. I try to keep up with the goings-on at least through my people who are still at CLC.
I have been holding out great hope that the pastors of CLC would stand strong and stick to their guns.
Sadly, they’re sounding more and more passive and wimpy with each new letter.
Unless they take back their manhood, I’m afraid that at the end of the day, their bodies will lay bleeding along the side of the road along with the hundreds of others….
I pray not.
Sidney
Oswald 21
Today’s revelations about CJ only serve to prove everything that Brent had to say about his former boss.
P #24 — SO true.
One other thought; I’m putting my money on Louisville, Ky. for C.J.’s new church plant. What do you think?
RM #26 — Seems plausible; would not doubt it.
@Sydney- Wimpy is a great way to describe it. Its one thing to treat a departing leader with respect, but one that has very visibly shown himself to be unsubordinate and hypocritical. Elders of ClC, just call a spade a spade. We are all adults. Tell it to us like it is us, instead of dousing it with 13 tons of sugar. CJ is not to be honored for his current actions. He is backtracking on his agreement to meet with elders, and is backtracking on all his teachings on submission to his pastors. Thats the facts. Don’t make us read between the lines, to see your unhappiness. Don’t accept his resignation until he practices what he preaches in regards to submission to elder’s rule, and “leaving well.”
Rick 26
I think that is likely too. And Louisville isn’t all that far from Chad, who attends college in OH.
The people I feel sorry for is all the other SGM families CJ is uprooting by ‘moving out of state’. He’s also splitting up hundreds of families in the process.
Man. I guess you have to agree 100% with CJ or he won’t even live in the same state as you!
i feel bad for solid rock church. if cj actually does go plant a church, hopefully he will find a place in the middle of no where, where there aren’t many people for him to brainwash.
Just because “he (CJ) no longer thinks the formal mediation he requested last fall is needed”, does not mean that others agree with this. That mediation should go on as planned. The outcome would be very revealing and interesting. CJ should not be allowed to slip away like this. He will be under NO ONE’s authority. This is not where a brother in Christ should be allowed to go, for his own good.
Rick, #27…that’s basically a done deal. The one SIL is already there. The other two are getting trained at CHBC. I’m sure there will be a nice SBC church in Louisville for the Mahaney clan to take over. Of course this means that the SGM headquarters will move there as well. How could they remain in the CLC building. So CLC won’t have to leave SGM, SGM will leave CLC.
MAK #33 — Are you saying that the Mahaney clan will pastor a SBC church and not be SGM any longer? I would think they could not be both SGM and SBC. I also can’t see CJ coming under the authority of any new president of SGM, after he ‘helps’ the board to choose one.
MAK –
So what happens to all the SGM churches? I don’t think they will all join the SBC. I don’t think CJ could be in the SBC and be a part of SGM.
Oswald # 16:
“CovFel has a family meeting next Sunday evening, Mar 4th. I wonder if this news about CJ will be part of what we hear. If it is, there will no doubt be great spin on it. As if it’s REALLY a good thing.”
Os, there is a whole lot more going down at this upcoming family meeting at CovFel than you could imagine. Come prepared with all your spiritual armor on. We will look forward to a full report from you…take good notes, bro.
P.D.
The level of deceit and iniquity that SGM has been willing to engage in will be infamous. We must remember God brings good out of evil in ways that we cannot forsee.
Some have suggested that those who don’t agree with CJ and the current SGM board are hoping that evil will befall them, and that we might hope that no grace is available for them. What a misguided and ignorant point of view. This is the viewpoint of an enabler who would empower those who are clearly users and abusers, who have rarely displayed an unhypocritical love of the brethren.
Where was grace for the 105 pastors, including Larry, who were callously and even criminally de-gifted? Where was this grace you call for when those whose conscience could no longer stand the putrid smell of iniquity in their SGM churches were marginalized with pathetic, divisive arrogance that exclaimed “well your now building differently so been nice knowing you”?. How dare you call for grace now…now that the poison has touched one of your own…now the line in the sand is drawn…but up until now everyone else was expendable…because you had a luxurious high position…”all is well…all is well”…shame on you! You are all cowards. All was rotten…and you watered it…you cultivated it and helped it grow…you knew it…but now it has turned on you and bitten you…do you now feel the sting of the venom?
No one who has been truly touched of the Lord rejoices to see this level of corruption, hypocrisy, deceit, and hatred on display by those who are supposed to be the shepherds of Israel…if you can say such things you never knew any of us…you never knew us…and you certainly never knew those whom you now seek to defend…
Stop cowering in fear…cowards…rise up!
Oz #13
My guess is that the mediation CJ no longer wants is the one between himself and Josh Harris. I recall that that started in the Fall but never reached any resolution. I could be wrong though.
Katie wrote:
“i feel bad for solid rock church. if cj actually does go plant a church, hopefully he will find a place in the middle of no where, where there aren’t many people for him to brainwash.” Hmmm, maybe outer mongolia?
Maybe he will go to a muslim nation that has no Christian missionaries? Or start a small inner city church in an area that has no gospel witness? There is a very small chance that he will plant a church where there are already established gospel churches, in a fairly affluent middle class suburb, but that seems unlikely…. :D
@ 36
Os, there is a whole lot more going down at this upcoming family meeting at CovFel than you could imagine. Come prepared with all your spiritual armor on. We will look forward to a full report from you…take good notes, bro.
P.D.
We need to be in prayer for this meeting and for the people who still attend this church. I no longer attend but you are so right in saying to come with your spiritual armor on.
…and sadly…to those who would say that some of us might be out here hoping for disaster to come upon SGM…well, that’s a slap in the face…many of us tried as we were taught to bring input when we could both see and smell smoke…but it was rejected…we were trying to avert the disaster…but the disaster is already here…CJ commits blackmail and you all let him get away with a recantation and calling that “garden Variety sin”!? Where on earth is your discerment?
The disaster this has been to the faith of so many…there is so much collateral damage…while many still in SGM sit and do nothing…”when one member suffers, we all suffer”…
I am not surprised in the least with CJ going to Solid Rock. As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I have expected to happen (after it became apparent that CLCers were not going to put up with his shenanigans)! Although, I am sure CJ is disappointed to lose his basketball court, er, office he was so proud of. What I wonderis, how they will spin JL’s last sermon on agreeing with each other in the Lord? Has CJ set an example of Unity by leaving CLC when he doesn’t agree? A small church just might become smaller…
I would not want to be part of a church that has such a woeful tale for it’s beginning anyway.
I suppose deception works that way: The one deceived flounders, trying to keep alive the deception, while others watch the pathetic flailing, unable to open the eyes of the deceived as they are slowly consumed. You just want it to end quickly and neatly, but instead it is torturous, as the deceived tries to hold on..
:koolaid
As Persona said in #25, this latest development is yet further proof that Brent’s charges are true. CJ sees himself as the ultimate authority within the SGM organization and truly submits to no one.
To SGM outsiders, it might not seem like a big deal, that a leader high up within an organization could so breezily announce that he’s swapping churches and that he plans to start a new church soon. But in SGM, this type of self-determination goes against everything they’ve ever taught or done.
Can anyone imagine any other SGM pastor doing something similar? Even someone as high up as, say, Dave Harvey, or someone as visible and famous-in-his-own-right as Josh Harris? If you have just a speck of a sense of how people behave within SGM, you know that this would never ever EVER happen. No other SGM pastor would have the freedom to declare he was done with a mediation process…let alone declare he was planning to start a new church! Any SGM pastor who would try such a move would be de-gifted quicker than CJ used to spin his imaginary plates.
I’m amazed, actually, that CJ and those around him lack the sense to know how clearly this latest move puts his unsubmissiveness and self-importance on display for all to see. CJ just does not play by the rules he has established for every other person in his organization. End of story.
And no amount of chatter out of Dave Harvey’s bearded little mouth can really disguise who is still in charge. It will be interesting to see how he tries to spin this to make the SGM board seem like they had a voice and input and a measure of control over what CJ does. But it’s obvious that they don’t. They are CJ’s puppets.
Amazing.
Having been a former member of Solid Rock – going back to BW being replaced by Mickey, I have to say I feel sorry for the people who are there. I have heard from a couple of people there, who said the believed at that time CJ would be a member of SRC. The really sad part is they act as though a super holy man was coming to their church. :barf: I wonder if Dave will roll out the red carpet and have trumpets sounding. :word
@Rick Malament #27 One other thought; I’m putting my money on Louisville, Ky. for C.J.’s new church plant. What do you think?
I have heard from someone who knows that it is Louisville. I would tell you who but that could shut the door on future info.
It is a very interesting development. The three SILs are attending SBTS. I would lay money that they are joining CJ on the church plant, although I don’t know that for a fact.
So what does this mean? Why the close affiliation with SBTS? If the SILS join, they have pastors trained at Mohler’s shop in a church in his backyard. Seems primed to populate the church plant with current Southern Baptists.
Here are some big questions: What does this mean for SGM? Will it be affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention? Will the Pastor’s College move to Louisville? If so, how will it relate to SBTS? What do the other SGM churches think about this? What does the SGM board think about this? Is this another one of those changes that they have to hide from the member churches to keep them from leaving?
I am starting to think that the Mohler/Dever/Mahaney connection is about a lot more that conferences.
It seems that this move by C.J has been in the works for months. My question is how can they just go forward with “plan A”without addressing C.J’s behavior. The rhetoric coming from J.L continues to be that this is a peaceful season and sometimes Christians can disagree and go their seperate ways over non sin issues. I just have a hard time understanding how blackmailing and fleeing accountability are not sin issues. The Bible says “a little leaven..” well welcome to Papa John’s! Who want’s a slice?
“I am starting to think that the Mohler/Dever/Mahaney connection is about a lot more that conferences.”
Interesting that you should say that. :wink:
A few weeks ago I took an interest in the various “southern baptist blogs” that are out there in the blogosphere and have been reading. My, my, my. Mohler and Mahaney’s name comes up frequently, along with the rest of T4G gang. These guys have been busy little bees.
Interesting that C.J.Mahaney now thinks this isn’t necessary. Maybe since the SGM Board declared Mahaney “qualified” and Mahaney has found a way to “save face” by just temporarily returning as leader of SGM he doesn’t need to be on the offensive this way. Another possibility is that Mahaney doesn’t see him being able to push his cause since the CLC Leadership isn’t still bowing to him like some of the other SGM Churches are doing.
Open Letter to Fellow Beloved CLC Members (loyal SGM)
So, what do you do now? Do you sell everything you have, leave your jobs, your homes, your lifelong friends and your adult children to follow CJ to his new destination?
Why do that?
You did it before. That’s how this all started in the 70’s. A dynamic teacher came to town. He captured the youth from healthy Gospel loving churches all around. He told you your pastors were wrong. He told you he had something better. Experience. You rebuked your home leaders and churches and followed him, giving up family, possessions, jobs, education and the Gospel to go where he went.
It was divisive. It was slanderous. It was heresy.
Now, holding hands with the denominations he once tore apart, he has launched a crusade to bring the Gospel back into the churches.
They already had the Gospel. They had it all along. It was you who were led astray. He led you there.
It’s time to stop following. Don’t leave your children and your homes and your jobs and your family and your friends to follow this one man.
What if just one thing said on these blogs were true? What if one of your friends was trampled on in an emotionally and spiritually devastating way? What if they kept that secret for decades so as to never “gossip and slander”? What if they have felt abandoned and rejected by God ever since? Isn’t it worth chasing after their soul? What is so wrong with the pastors of CLC pursuing these lost sheep? Don’t you see why they have to do that?
Gossip and slander is not the problem. Using that teaching to silence the weak, the victims, your hurting friends, that is the problem. If there was nothing hidden, then there would have been nothing to talk about. But, there were things hidden. And they were wrong. Ask your friends what happened to them. Care for them.
Josh didn’t cause all of this. In fact, he has spent years taking responsibility for and apologizing for the abuses of previous leadership. He’s never lashed out while under personal attack, but has continued to reach out and extend mercy and compassion towards his accusers. He’s standing up for weak, at great expense personally. Why do you think the others pastors are standing with him? They know.
Stay in your church. Love God together, grow old. Don’t abandon your children and your grandchildren out of stubborn principle. Encourage your pastors. Study the Bible. Reach out to the weak. Love one another. I believe God has something wonderful ahead, for you, just around the corner.
Please don’t leave.
Love,
CLC Members (the wounded)
I guess the ~40 pages worth of documentation that C.J. put together against the pastors of CLC, specifically Josh just doesn’t even matter anymore. Doesn’t even require mediation. C.J. is running as fast and furious away from this conflict. Sweeping things under the rug doesn’t even begin to define what he is doing.
And yes- I have my money on C.J. planting in Louisville KY too. Would be surprised though if T4G will draw any attention to is at all. C.J. is trying to pretend this is all a bad dream. No need to rehash at T4G.