The Not-A-Confession
March 4, 2012 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
Well, according to those who attended, the Covenant Fellowship Church family meeting happened, and Dave Harvey didn’t actually confess to much of anything, beyond needing to step back from his ministry duties for awhile.
He received a standing ovation…
The group was told not to talk on the internet about church matters.
And that’s pretty much it.
It will be interesting to see what happens now.
© 2012, Kris. All rights reserved.
Seems like Dave may be following in his mentor’s footsteps as far as non-confessions go. CJ did a pretty good job of retrieving his confession in July, too.
I am wondering if the powers that be gave Dave a pass on a public confession and allowed him to make it privately.
In the end, the decommission would be the same. But, we already know how SGM prefers to do things behind closed doors.
Just to clarify something, particularly for Mr. Mellinger’s benefit – Nobody here was “hoping” for a confession, or for a pastor to step down.
Weren’t there supposed to be men/leaders in the church that were concerned about his character and insisting on a confession? Are they happy with what took place? Is this what they had envisioned? :scratch
So now does this mean that Dave is gone from SGM as well or just as a pastor from his church? ? What is his position now? is he moving with the rest of the SGM staff to kentucky? So its like CJ . He left CLC but still gets a paycheck from SGM. Whats the deal????
so sad ………………….so sad……………….
Those men/leaders had purportedly said they would share their information publicly if Mr. Harvey’s confession didn’t hit all the points they believed he should hit.
At this point, who knows what is going on.
As someone just said in an email, “When was the last time a family meeting was called just so a pastor could talk about his ‘stressors’?”
Genius. Pure Genius.
Dave Harvey promised that when the AoR report came out it would be published in full on the SGM blog. Correct? It was DH am I right?
But now, with Harvey out of the way, well, nobody is breaking a promise if they do not publish it because that was Dave. But now Dave is on a break. So now CJ and company can decide that they don’t want to put the AoR report online-that would be gossip, as it does after all refer to SGM people.
Ok I am speculating. And granted I am cynical. But with Dave now out of the way they can dispense with the promise to publish the AoR report if they like, it seems to me.
We will see.
Was Dave Harvey’s “not a confession” recorded?
just when i begin to believe that things may get better, something else happens that will cause me yet another sleepless night…
5years,
Sometimes I’m afraid you’re going to give them ideas…
:lol:
And how did it play out for dozens of other pastors who had stressors in their lives?
If you are neutral on situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. -Desmond Tutu
I don’t get it! Is he not a pastor any more? Is he on a sabatical? Is he still on the board of SGM? What just happened? :huh
Its like I am reading a John Grishom novel :lol:
Some of it is so far from reality it has to be a fiction novel.
I mean seriously no human can be so stupid as to not realize that telling the truth and being honest up front is the best way to end “gossip and slander” before it begins……
I know some of “these” SGM pastors and I really wish they would all go cold turkey on the Koolaid. :bang Some of them are far from bad guys its just the Koolaid seems to take control of their realities like an addict :(
Kris, Someone was evidently expecting (hoping for) a confession. That’s what has been discussed here all afternoon. Though not necessarily in a mean-spirited way. I didn’t mean to imply that. Also, Dave’s wrong-doing is discussed often, so why would we not expect a confession of it, since one was mentioned as being imminent. Also, repentance is what we are praying for and wanting, followed by confession, isn’t it?? No one wanted or expected him to step down, and he didn’t.
At the CovFel meeting, Jared asked that members-meeting things not be shared with non-members, no specifics from him.
While DH is having a drama moment, meantime, SGM pastors can be accountable for their wait-n-see leadership skills…
Kris wrote #5 –“Those men/leaders had purportedly said they would share their information publicly if Mr. Harvey’s confession didn’t hit all the points they believed he should hit”.
Just wondering…who are these men/leaders mentioned in this statement? Maybe THEY were expecting/hoping for a confession. Anyway, there was none.
When was the last time a “Family Meeting” involving SGM leaders produced anything of value? Truth, Godly sorrow, genuine repentance?????
Today, I am very sad to hear about Dave’s family troubles. My heart goes out to them all.
One question I had for Kris…why did you and others think that the meeting tonight would include a confession from Dave? What were you told about the meeting beforehand?
Oswald –
Come on . . . Dave has been at the helm of SGM since CJ stepped down in July. He is responsible for how everything has been carried out fior the past 8 months. Everyone in SGM should know what happened in that meeting. All congregations and churches have been asked to “be patient” and “think the best” for 8 months. NOW we’re all supposed to CONTINUE to be in the dark with what was shared by Dave H. – WHY?? Because he’s so special? HYPOCRITS!! SGM treats the people in their churches like bothersome flies! Harvey just fades into the background now and that’s it?
WHAT NOW – CJ runs the show on his own again? Maybe this is the reason for the quick vote requested last week for the new board.
I’m flabbergasted and angry but NOT In SIN!
SGM Member –
I had heard essentially the same story (about Dave, and the anticipated confession basically wrung out of him by several influential men within the CFC congregation) from 5 different sources.
Usually when several people share the same story, it tends to be accurate.
I’m sorry for raising any false hopes among those who had wanted an official acknowledgement from Dave of his various wrongdoings. I think what actually might have transpired among those guys prior to the meeting could have gone down any number of paths.
We shall see if we’ve heard the last of this topic.
Bridget #18 — The CovFel meeting this evening was not at all about SGM. There is no need for any of this meeting to be shared with any other churches.
Dave is no longer acting-president of SGM and he is not on the new board, having declined a nomination. He still has a job with SGM but is cutting back on some of his work for a while after a stressful past 8 months.
Oswald,
I understand where you’re coming from, but I’d tend to think that because of Dave Harvey’s major participation in the leadership of SGM-the-organization over the past 8 or 9 months, just about anything having to do with his fitness for leadership would be the business of every SGM member, whether they were part of CFC or some other SGM church.
Happymom #16 — Actually, this evening’s family meeting at CovFel did not involve any SGM leaders. Dave was there strictly as a CovFel pastor/member.
Bridget, I agree. This is not something to be secretive and coy about. If Dave Harvey needs to step down, and a meeting is called to announce this, everyone in SGM should be allowed to know.
Secrecy and deceit and putting a good face on things–I am so tired of it all.
:(
Brent said some pretty strong things in his post today. Kris, I trust that you always check your sources. And I trust that Brent knows all of the “inside information.”.
So, I’m waiting for someone to come out with the truth…either through blogs or through Brent.
Then again….we all know the truth is hard to come by in SGM and its churches.
Sidney
Does Harvey not remind youo of the Fonz on Happy Days trying to say, “I’m wrong” but couldn’t get the words out of his mouth?
So, let me get this straight because I’m confused…..
Harvey said something about his kids, perhaps a sin in one of them?
Then Mellenger tells everyone not to talk with outsiders?
Then everyone gets to clap-clap and give Harvey a standing O?
My reaction….Harvey threw his kids under the bus!
Mellenger thinks you should watch porn instead of going on a blog….the First Ammendment shouldn’t intimidate a righteous man. and “lets keep this our special secret,” Mellenger, you are like a roach taking cover.
A standing O for Harvey? Seriously? I was *praying* for him but God has obviously given him freewill.
What a waste.
Kris, #21 — I saw a man hurt and stressed out, in need of continued prayer at CovFel this evening. He needs no more pressure on him at this time. I didn’t know there was a discussion of his fitness for leadership, but he is not in leadership as president or board member any longer.
Oswald –
I understand about a possible “family issue” and I have absolutely no desire to know about any issues with his kids, but he is not just a CovFel leader by any stretch of the means. I also understand that the last 8-9 months have been stressful BUT that cannot be used as an excuse for his part in the issues at hand. He and CJ are just fading into the sunset??
They have been two of the leaders in SGM for 25 years. They have not taken responsibility for anything that has happened under their leadership. That just begs the question – Are they REALLY leaders? I’ve seen baseball managers take more responsibity for a losing season than either of them have taken for anything in SGM over the last 25 years.
DB #25 — You said of Dave Harvey, “but God has obviously given him freewill”. I love it in scripture when I see the words, “but God”, because I was bound for hell, BUT GOD saved me. Praise God when he ‘buts’ in.
Jim at refuge stated that he threw a family member under the bus. Is that true?
Also, so SGM has to pay his salary, for doing…..?????
Don’t get me wrong…I feel for the guy…I’m sure he’s stressed but why did the whole CFC have to get together to hear this?? Why did he just not make a blog post? Something doesn’t add up here…
Bridget #27 — I see your point, but for today, Dave was just a CovFel pastor/member. I’m guessing more is yet to come for Dave and CJ.
MAK #29 — A blog post is for the whole world to see. This evening’s meeting was just for CovFel members.
Oswald –
CJ wasn’t there to support his friend? No SGM leaders to support Dave who has carried (and created) alot of the mess – hmmm. Did CJ now throw Dave under the bus too? No one left leading with CJ? Something is so very wrong with this picture.
Bridget #32 — No CJ/SGM leaders in sight. Just the whole pastoral team and the church.
Oswald…I kind of understand. Keep in mind I know Dave Harvey personally…I went to college with him…so I have nothing personally against him. But, I, via my tithes to CLC who pays $800k a year to SGM pays Dave’s salary. If he is stepping back from his role at SGM then the members of SGM need to know.
Also, everything that happens at a CLC members meetings hits the blogs asap. Why all the secrecy regarding DH??? It just creates more controversy. My 2 cents.
Elsie said this in the last post’s comments. Dave had a chance to get free tonight and apparently he didn’t use that opportunity. God’s going to lovingly pursue him. Until he gives in to God, he’s going to be a whole lot more stressed. :/
Oswald,
I can see that you are being so cool in all of this, not willing to being drawn into personal speculation – just objective…. You are doing a very good job at not gossiping, etc… I am, too, very curious, and have many questions about the meeting… But i know u are not the source… Good job!!! we are all curious, and many of us would have wanted to be in the meeting … your answers to all of the questions are quite appropriate and balanced…
MAK #34 — We were asked to not share with non-members the things shared at the meeting. No big deal. It’s a personal thing. Concerning Dave’s salary, and our right to know everything; suppose he was off from work for a while after having a vasectomy(say). We would be told that he had surgery of some kind, no details. And we would not need to know everything just because we pay his salary. It’s personal.
I feel like Andrew at Plant and Build, answering all the questions. But, I don’t really HAVE to.
Ellie #35 — I agree.
A while ago we had a discussion on the deception that is given or offered to new members/prospective members.
I think this is clear evidence that the deception doesn’t stop when one joins.
How can a man who used to be so proud of keeping score of his 25 years of service and ministry on the board of SGM now have little or NO responsibility for where it has been, what it has done in or to people’s lives and now he’s stressed?
Really? :bang
Glad #36 — Thanks so much.
So, this is Dave’s bio on the current T4G website. It describes his current job description at Glen Mills and SGM. I wonder if he is cutting back on church care, church planting, or international expansion or, all three?
His bio is not as short on words as CJ’s bio.
Dave Harvey
Church Planting & Church Care, Sovereign Grace Ministries
Glen Mills, PA
Breakout Session Talk: Church Planting: The Mission and the Man (Joint Session with Darrin Patrick)
Bio for Dave Harvey:
Church Planting and Church Care
Sovereign Grace Ministries
Glen Mills, Pennsylvania
Dave Harvey is responsible for church care, church planting, and international expansion for Sovereign Grace Ministries. He has served as a member of the Sovereign Grace Ministries leadership team since 1995.
Dave has been in pastoral ministry at Covenant Fellowship Church (Glen Mills, PA) since 1986, was ordained in 1988, and served as senior pastor from 1990 to 2008. He has served on the board of the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation since 2006. Dave received a Master of Arts in Missiology from Westminster Theological Seminary in 1989, worked toward a Master of Divinity from Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary from 1993 to 1995, and in 2001 became a graduate in Westminster’s D.Min. program. The subject of his doctoral thesis was the identification and equipping of church planters.
Dave is the author of Rescuing Ambition (Crossway, 2010) and When Sinners Say “I Do”: Discovering the Power of the Gospel for Marriage (Shepherd, 2007). He contributed a chapter to Worldliness: Resisting the Seduction of a Fallen World (Crossway, 2008) and wrote a chapter for Why Small Groups?, a book from Sovereign Grace’s Pursuit of Godliness series. He continues to work on other writing projects.
Dave lives in West Chester, Pennsylvania, with his wife, Kimm. They have four children and, despite his many protests, one stray cat.
Defended #39 — What goes around, comes around. It just takes time.
Persona #41 — I wonder if Dave will indeed speak at T4G or at NEXT as scheduled, since he has cut back on his work schedule for now.
Persona #41 — I think Dave’s bio is longer than CJ’s because Dave actually has more education than CJ.
I posted Dave’s bio because it describes his job description up until tonight. It helps to see what Dave (self-described) says he was doing prior to his decision to pull-back from some of his duties.
I’m not sure how much of his time was spent in serving CFC but initially, when he came on payroll with SGM we were told that he would work part-time for both organizations. Was he still doing that up until today or was he working 100% for SGM?
I don’t know what others’ think but to me, this ‘pulling back’ thing doesn’t seem all that different from what CJ did when he was confronted with his indiscretions.
Short of gross, visible sin, the facts are sufficient all by themselves, whether or not details of Dave’s personal life leak out. It’s almost more damaging to SGM if they don’t. To wit:
1. DH
iswas President of SGM.2. He stepped down based on the counsel of his peers.
3. He made some sort of confession of sin tonight at his own church.
Okay. See ya later. Next!
We now have C.J. stepping down/returning but not to be permanent President and the interim President stepping down. The Panel report was partial and inadequate, at very best. The proposal for a permanent Board shows no signs of organizational repentance. The AoR report is extremely delayed. Given the embarrassing dysfunction of SGM’s corporate leadership, the report might almost come as a relief at this point. CLC has been frozen out of ‘the process’ and, thus, the ‘movement’. Credible reports have Mahaney moving CLS HQ to Kentucky to link up with SBTS/Mohler.
Sovereign Grace Ministries appears to be functional, but it is not, even by its own lax criteria, a functional organization at this point. Amidst the chaos, several factions are quarreling over control of its assets (e.g., its ‘branding’), not realizing yet that the brand’s marketplace value has been zeroed out. SGM is a penny stock.
Sure, AoR report or no report, C.J will repackage PDI/SGM/Mahaney-ism, while CLC-and-friends take a new name and claim ‘the best of SGM’s history’ for themselves. But C.J’s shtick isn’t going to fool anyone anymore and CLC/friends have too many skeletons in their own closets to for a new narrative to be persuasive.
Who knew these guys were so incompetent? Behind the great wizard’s curtain sit very small men indeed, brothers and sisters. Don’t blame yourselves for what you didn’t know. Now that you know, let them go and recommit yourself to Jesus.
SGM is so over, not with a bang but with accumulated whimpers.
Oswald #26, you said “he is not in leadership as president or board member any longer.”
How convenient.
Just like his boss, CJ.
Epaphras,
#46 is a brilliant description!
How can anyone take them seriously at this point?
:spin :spin :spin :spin :spin :spin :spin :spin
(A small side note: Where on earth does God fit into their picture?)
Epaphras #46 — Your 1,2,3 are ALMOST correct. In fact….
1 DH was ACTING president of SGM
2 He stepped down (from SGM) because CJ was exonerated and brought back to the presidency.
3 He told his sad tale to his congregation tonight. No sin was confessed.
Next!
I did not read the rest of you post yet after I saw that 1,2, and 3 were not quite accurate.
Now I’ll finish your post.
Persona #45 — you said “I don’t know what others’ think but to me, this ‘pulling back’ thing doesn’t seem all that different from what CJ did when he was confronted with his indiscretions”. I agree.