Blind-Eye Blogging
March 5, 2012 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
What with C.J. Mahaney’s woes of the past 8 months or so, coupled with other rumblings within the Sovereign Grace Ministries organization, the topic of how SGM’s “brand” continues to be perceived was raised last night. Some people believe that surely by now, the non-SGM outside Christian world has to have a better understanding of what makes SGM dysfunctional and very different from a healthy denomination…right?
I think the answer to that question is, sadly, “No.” The standing of C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Ministries continues to enjoy what seems like a free pass from other leaders in the Reformed world. The SGM “brand” has not really taken much of a hit over the past several months. As commenter “Ozymandias” said, in response to the assertion that SGM was losing credibility,
I’d argue that this is definitely not the case. If it was, you’d see both (a) SGM get dropped quickly from conference participation; and (b) a lot less hesitancy on the part of the conservative evangelical blogosphere to talk about the denomination’s problems and difficulties. Absent (a) or (b), I’d say (for better or worse) the brand hasn’t taken the kind of hit you describe.
As I thought about this topic – of why SGM seems to enjoy some sort of immunity to being critically examined by its Reformed peers – I wrote the following. I was originally going to post it as just another comment, but it turned out to be so long that I figured it’d make a better post. Here goes:
———————————
I continue to be mystified by the blind eye the Reformed blogosphere seems determined to turn to CJ, SGM, and the many problems within the organization.
These same “watch-bloggers” who are so quick to foam at the mouth over secondary doctrinal disagreements and barely hesitate to insinuate that certain non-Reformed pastors aren’t saved would appear to barely care at all that SGM (under CJ’s leadership) has left a trail of battered and broken souls. It’s like in these guys’ minds (the Reformed blogosphere is a largely male world) there’s just no way that anybody who has passed their doctrinal sniff test could possibly have issues that ought to concern them. At their conferences, CJ says all the right stuff and makes them laugh more than they usually do. CJ’s books, when read with a non-SGM understanding of key terms, seem fine. And they like SGM’s music.
That seems to be enough to have earned CJ and SGM a free pass to do pretty much whatever they want behind the closed doors of their family of churches.
I’ve thought about this question – why none of the Reformed bloggers care enough to dig more deeply and gain an understanding of SGM’s problems…and, more alarmingly, why many of these guys continue to endorse SGM – a LOT. And I’ve concluded that the answer is something like this:
1) The Reformed blogosphere’s doctrinal litmus test has become something of an idol to its participants; and
2) Most of the bigger names simply cannot afford to jeopardize their standing and status by ticking off CJ/SGM when nobody else within their world has dared to do so.
Many of the better-known bloggers have spent the past 8 or 10 years fighting what started out as a very good fight – they have battled for ditching the squishy “Therapeutic Deism” which too much of the Rick Warren Purpose-Driven Evangelical world had embraced. They have fought hard for Christians to instead go back to more of a Bible-based understanding of who we are, what our problem really is (sin), and what the solution is (salvation through grace alone, through faith in Jesus alone). Along the way, they also embraced the fight against the post-modern thinking that spawned the “Emerging Church” movement. In my view, all very admirable causes.
But somewhere in there, something happened. These guys developed a shibboleth of sorts – if you will, a secret handshake. And that is, if a preacher says the right words and affirms the right doctrinal positions, he will be accepted, affirmed, and promoted…especially if these bloggers’ other favorite celebrity preachers accept, affirm, and promote him.
CJ was pretty much a genius for the way he apparently grasped this principle early on. I mean, way back in the late 90s/early 2000s, CJ deliberately shifted the PDI organization away from classic Charismaticism, something most of the Reformed bloggers find revolting, and toward a Puritan view of sin and salvation. The name change was a very big piece of CJ’s genius (even though as I understand it, CJ tasked Josh Harris with finding the new name). On some intuitive level, CJ understood that “Sovereign Grace Ministries” would ring all the right bells with the Reformed tastemakers, whereas “People of Destiny International” would make them curl their collective Reformed lip. With the new name in place and some sermons that used all the right doctrinal buzzwords and catchphrases, CJ was basically in.
Once in, my second point comes into play. The men of the Reformed blogosphere have built whole careers, complete with book deals and speaking gigs, out of their blogging endeavors. Nothing at all wrong with that, of course…BUT, when your ability to support your family is now on the line, diplomacy becomes key. It’s OK to continue to needle the usual targets (hyper-Charismatic wackadoodles like Benny Hinn, Pentecostal Oneness dudes like T.D. Jakes, Prosperity Gospel lightweights like Joel Osteen, and pretty much anyone in the Evangelical world who isn’t walking the proper theological line are all still fair game). But leaders of other Reformed movements? Speakers at Reformed conferences? Guys with Al Mohler’s stamp of approval? Uh, not so much. The people who need their blogging careers must tread very carefully when it comes to the book-blurb-writing, conference-speaking segment.
So I think it is way simpler for these “watch-bloggers” to just not do any watching when it comes to the celebrities who have already passed the doctrinal litmus test. There are plenty of other easy targets out there. There’s no lack of new blog fodder coming out of the world of megachurches. Who would even have time to dig in and study, for instance, how SGM subtly redefines key doctrinal terms and adds such a significant performance element to the gospel? Who wants to get their hands dirty learning about the bad and the ugly that result when the watchbloggers’ own favorite doctrinal saws are taken to their extreme literal conclusions?
(For instance, these guys are all big into affirming the sufficiency of Scripture. Matter of fact, just writing that phrase, I feel like it should be said like this: The Sufficiency Of Scripture™. It’s really that big of a Reformed defining phrase. Affirm the sufficiency of Scripture, and you’re A-OK. Take it a step further and condemn something that would get in the way of the sufficiency of Scripture, and you’re even more legit.
I think it can get tremendously uncomfortable for these bloggers, hammering away at The Sufficiency Of Scripture™, to force themselves to consider what happens when this teaching is taken and applied to a large group, like SGM’s family-of-churches, in wooden and legalistic ways. SGM’s rejection of anything to do with psychology is a perfect example. SGM’s fixation on “biblical categories” has led to many situations where people were counseled that problems like depression or ADHD were solely sin issues and could not be dealt with in any other way. SGM pastors counseled members to avoid medical intervention and instead hammered away on the sin element.
What Reformed blogger wants to confront such an uncomfortable truth, that sometimes a simplistic and legalistically and woodenly applied embrace of The Sufficiency Of Scripture™ could lead to so much harm and abuse?)
Definitely, it’s just so much easier to look the other way. It’s so much simpler for these “watch-bloggers” to shrug and soothe themselves by saying, “CJ has to be all right. He affirms The Sufficiency Of Scripture™! And Al Mohler and Ligon Duncan and Mark Dever think he’s GREAT!”
There are all sorts of other shiny pennies of doctrinal incorrectness to go after. So much blogging, so little time.
But in the interim, the very people looking to these guys to sound the alarm and be the internet’s doctrinal sentinels are being let down in a big way.
© 2012, Kris. All rights reserved.
Good post Kris. My husband says the same thing all the time. As long as you can explain the doctrine of justification by faith correctly, and you have the 5 solas of the Reformation and TULIP, it seems like nothing else matters. (Especially not dependent prayer
to God.). And by the way I hold to all of the above doctrines.
My husband was reading a Puritan last night who was writing about sweet communion with the Lord, and I read one last week about the call to holy living. We were saying how those old dead guys who get quoted all the time just basked in God’s presence, praying for hours and meditating on the word. Can you imagine them inviting Mark Driscoll to speak at their churches on how women should give their hubsbands sodomite sex up the rear?????? But Driscoll is OK and can speak at the Gospel Coalition and have his sermons on their site; he believes in TULIP. And SGM can throw little girls who were molested under the bus and protect their degraded perverted perps, they quote Spurgeon.
I am sure many of the big guys are ignorant or in denial, I certainly don’t want to lump them all together. I truly believe DA Carson is a good guy and a true pastor. I am sure many of them are. But oh, it is just so awful overall.
Purify and expose, Lord Jesus, we pray. Bring truth and justice we pray. And give AoR the strength to write and go public with the full truth, no matter what the cost, to protect your sheep.
Oswald:
RE: The last post
Not trying to be contentious here but you’re of the opinion that it’s a “family matter” local to CFC. However, Dave has been involved in the life, and eventual replacing of our regional leader within the past year. His involvement and decisions affected the oversight of my local franchise and therefore, by extension, my “local church family” and us personally.
If the leadership has had it fingers in the decisions in my region, I should also be aware of its failings.
Further, Dave has been the point man in all things SGM since CJ stepped down temporality. Appointments, panels, questions, spokesman, etc. And now, whatever is going on is strictly a “local” issue? Dave has not been a “local” personality.
One thing SGM is consistent in is pulling leadership issues privately and “locally”. It has been to save face, reputation and the “brand” known as SGM. All under the guide of the “reputation of the Gospel”.
And “stressors”? I remember being counseled and sharing about certain “frustrations” in my life. I was told that I couldn’t use the word “frustration” because it’s not in the bible. I had to use a “biblical” term. And of course, when I used a “biblical” term, the issue was always my sin.
I think most of the christian world see SGM as ok. If they have heard of any discord in SGM, they assume that it’s all good now and CJ has been reinstated. Even people within SGM churches think this way. They are just not informed or ill-informed. When one tries to tell what is going on, when it’s put into words it really does seem sort-of silly and no big deal. The response is, “That’s it?”, “Isn’t this true of every church and in all people?”
I think it’s a smart idea of many prominent christian leaders to not say anything concerning SGM. It leads to more disagreement and disharmony among christians.
Hey, has anyone else noticed the rapidly decreasing number of speakers for the NEXT conference. I feel like there were 8 to start with and now there are only 6. I know Bob Kauflin isn’t listed anymore (most recent change), but I don’t know who else has dropped out. Was it Dave Harvey? Just check the SGM page to see the current speakers.
I can hardly keep up…was just going to comment on the last post. You know, I have to say that like ExCLCer’s Mom said (I think that was the last comment from the last post) we WERE waiting for a confession – not for a juicy morsel of sin or inside information, but because Dave Harvey’s flip-flopping, wishy-washy stance and hypocrisy in Brent’s documents was so glaringly obvious. It made me cringe to think that this had been my senior pastor for years. This person who’s using a bunch of flowery, “godly” language and telling Brent what he wants to hear, and CJ what he wants to hear and contradicting himself and not taking a stand for what is right. It was so saddening.
A confession that he had not handled things correctly, an owning up to his part in the problems, and a statement that he was sorry for this would have had me on my feet giving him a standing ovation. Sure, I would have been here in my PJs with the boos, but still, I’d have been cheering. It takes a big person who has eternity in his heart to admit his failings. That person deserves encouragement and support.
I can’t help but think of this verse from Be Thou My Vision:
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise
Thou my inheritance now and always
Thou and Thou only first in my heart
High King of Heaven, my treasure Thou art.
God is not fooled. Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.
Roadwork #2 — I totally agree. In SGM it seems to be that all are not held to the same standard. We see this again and again. One good thing is that Dave’s heart seems to be softening. God works in mysterious ways. I’m reminded of the scripture that says; He learned obedience by the things that he suffered. (not even sure of the context here)
One Reformed Little Dog said the reformed world comes with preconceived assumptions about what a “pastor” is based on scripture. They are assuming a pastor is gentle and kind and loving. They are assuming he is a servant. They are assuming he gently cares for his flock and seeks out the lost sheep. They have “no category” for anything else. They have no experience with the “shepherding” movement or an abusive use of authority.
When they hear stories about SGM, they don’t compute. He actually said they are so bizarre they seem ludicrous. They have assumed SGM leaders fit their biblical definitions of the word “pastor” in which case the events discussed on the blogs would be impossible.
The problem is, the assumption that SGM leaders originally fit their biblical definition of “pastor”. SGM’s qualifications of a pastor and the traditional reformed definition of pastor are not one in the same.
What seems to me to be the only real issue of interest outside of CFC is whether Brent’s post about requesting that Dave’s character issues be looked into is the whole story. Brent presents a picture in which Mr S did not investigate concerns, despite seeing the need to do so, well over a year before Dave became interim board president of SGM. If these concerns were carefully addressed and Brent’s picture is not complete, then ok. But if the SGM board members contributed to areas of Dave’s life remaining hidden – especially those which were found to be disqualifying for other leaders – and did not investigate, then we have another situation entirely.
However, it will require these mysterious persons who brought this out into the open to make anything like that clear. Until then it will remain another example of “how high should the bar be set, actually.”
istm
This is part of Brent’s post from yesterday: (sorry, I can’t remember how to blockquote and I don’t have time to figure it out right now)
“Tonight Covenant Fellowship Church in Glenn Mills, PA will gather. They will hear news about Dave and their pastors that is extremely painful, disappointing, and disillusioning. The entire SGM family of churches will be shocked.
One of the issues to be addressed concerns Dave’s abusive treatment of former CFC pastors, Don Shorey and Joe McMullin. Two years ago, I asked Bob Kauflin, Phil Sasser, and Wayne Brooks to make sure Dave was investigated by the SGM Board for his handling of these men and others in the church. Unsurprisingly, nothing was done. It was unimportant to them.”
According to Brent, there was some pretty serious stuff. Brent knows what it is. Others know what it is.
I don’t think “stress” is enough to “shock the entire SGM family of churches.”
Still waiting for some truth. And that is VERY hard to find in SGM churches.
If Dave is having health issues due to the “stressors” caused by his job, he should either take a medical leave of absence…WITHOUT PAY… or file a workers comp claim.
Sidney
Who wrote this post?? You Kris?? Very well done and this stuff should be going into Christian magazines and hitting the mainstream. I was part of SGM for almost 25 years and this article nails it. Keep up the good work!
Brent’s FB comment this morning to his post about what was going to happen last night:
“Dave was not exposed last night but that doesn’t mean he won’t be in the days’ ahead.”
Golly, I wish they taught punctuation at the Pastors College. :wink:
Oswald…your writing here has the sound in it of a frantic man desperate to hold together what has come to define his world. I don’t say this as an insult but because I remember thinking and feeling the same way when I realized that the behavior of these men, who I had come to respect and love a great deal, did not pass the smell test.
You must realize that they are classic narcissists…they want all the love, admiration, and loyalty they can get from you, but they will not return these in like kind…they will use you like a tool. Why do children act out many times, if not to get the attention of a parent who gives them little? They are most loyal to themselves, and they serve no one more than themselves…and anyone and everyone is expendable in the pursuit of self-adoration…
Someone has said it here before…but it bears repeating again. The congregations in SGM churches are culpable in these circumstances precisley because they have so often turned a blind eye to the obvious, and given blatant hypocrisy a pass. So now it’s, “well we used to believe that if a pastors children acted out that it disqualified him for ministry, but we’ve changed our view on that”…LOL…are you kidding me…and just in the nick of time!!…and folks there are duped enough to give that a standing O…seriously Os take a hit of the smelling salts…Jesus said the Pharisees put burdens on others that they themselves were unwilling to carry…does that even sound remotely familiar? And please save the “your so unkind” speech for someone else…Jesus pulled no punches and neither did Paul with legalistic Pharisees…
Where was all this sadness when 105 other men were de-gifted, some of them scandalously…Dave and CJ used to teach that people get the leaders they deserve…he was sadly so right about that…WAKE UP OS!! Wait…I didn’t think of this…this is really good news for Larry Tomczak…I suppose he can expect to be reinstated any day now with 16 or 17 years of back pay!! How very very sad…
Mommy…BAAHHAAAAA!!! I am the grammar police and I thought for a brief moment about taking out that stupid apostrophe, but I decided not to, because then it wouldn’t be a quote anymore.
Then again, Brent has way more education than a silly little SGM pastors “college.”
I suppose grammar isn’t everyone’s strong point….
Sid
I do not wish ill health or stress on anyone but the Bible is very specific in that eventually we reap what we sow if we don’t repent. This has happend many times in my own life.
The senior leadership of SGM has caused a lot of stress in the lives of former pastors/leaders. I know of one senior pastor who had to “retire” after 2 years of scrutiny for “areas of pride”. It effected his health so bad he couldn’t work and his wife had to go back to work to help support the family. He is just now after quite a few years getting back into ministry.
I certainly hope that the churches who choose to leave SGM decide to change their names…where is the Grace in Sovereign Grace??
[Pretend this comment is in my usual pink :D ]
I’m away from my computer for most of the day and unable to log in. But I wanted to post a quick comment.
In #7, “just saying” said,
Wow, what an astute observation. I had never thought of it that way before, but – of course! It makes total sense.
I know that in my own experience, throughout a lifetime spent in (mostly) “normal” Bible-based Reformed Christianity, I had never been exposed to the “Shepherding” construct of pastor as authoritative overseer who not accountable in a reciprocal fashion to some representation of the church members.
When people first started sharing their stories of abuse here, I felt some similar sense of disbelief. As others have said, honestly, nobody could make up a story as bizarre as this one, especially when the ordinary definition of pastor is the one you’re using to view and interpret SGM’s pastors’ behavior.
Thanks for sharing that!
Thanks, Kris! They don’t see the hypocrisy and inconsistency regarding their take on the issue of “The Sufficiency of Scripture”. If they took God’s word for His word, they would be standing on firm ground. But as it is, they must compromise, look the other way, do the secret handshake, because at the root of Reformed exists a re-interpretation of a good deal of Scripture, old and new testaments.
So in the first century, no Christian would dare take the position or title of sole ruler, overseer, or pastor of the church. We Christians today, however, are so accustomed to speaking of “the pastor” that we do not stop to realize that the New Testament does not. This fact is profoundly significant, and we must not permit our customary practice to shield our minds from this important truth. There is only one flock and one Pastor (John 10:16), one body and one Head (Col. 1:18), one holy priesthood and one great High Priest (Heb. 4:14ff.), one brotherhood and one Elder Brother (Rom. 8:29), one building and one Cornerstone (1 Peter 2:5ff.), one Mediator, one Lord. Jesus Christ is “Senior Pastor,” and all others are His undershepherds (1 Peter 5:4).”
From Josh’s blog on Feb. 20.
I should add, he is quoting – Alexander Strauch, Biblical Eldership: An Urgent Call To Restore Biblical Church Leadership, (pp. 114-115).
I have not confidence that AoR will be any help. After reading Ted’s response to Detwiler all I can expect from them is charitable judgements that something might be wrong and that everyone should show grace to one another and work for a resolution in love and charity. (I cant believe someone paid money for that!)
The real linchpin in this is CLC. Until they turn off the $$ and start to put pressure on SGM and CJ/Harvey nothing will change. Until CJ has to use his own money to get to and from the big conferences nothing will change. Until Harvey has to look for fund to pay himself and his staff, nothing will change.
CLC is enabling Harvey and SGM because they keep funding it. CLC is enabling SGM by supporting the Pastors College. Josh and the guys at CLC need to stop the flow of funds, stop cooperating with the Pastors College and other SGM activities and just sit back and wait. They need to use the power of the purse against SGM. Fairfax has stopped. Now SGM is funded by CLC and CFC. And CLC comprises the single largest giving block and perhaps as much as a quarter of all SGM funds.
It would be newsworthy to know that SGM has lost one third or more of their funds. Likewise, if the Pastors College had to move to CFC, that too might make new. (Remember that the Pastors College requires lots and lots of time, attention, and work on the part of CLC staff AND congregants! Without the people of CLC the Pastors College is just a couple of empty rooms!) And if three or five or ten churches all stopped giving, that might be news, and it would certainly put SGM in a bad way.
The present leadership in SGM is a cancer! As long as you feed it, it will grow! Now is the time to stop supplying the means to more spin and abuse!
C’mon Guys. CLC needs to step up. Time to be the leader! Time to lead!
# 7 just saying makes a good point –
But the reformed and SBC bloggers, and other supporters of CJ and SGM aren’t pastoring well either. They are not caring for the flock that is being harmed, nor are they caring for their buddy, CJ. Why is this? I do know when you go to the T4G site to register you get linked to SGM. SGM must be the admin. center for the conference. They could be running the bookstore at the conference as well. This, by itself, is a non-issue, but when you see the refusal of any of the men involved with T4G to speek out or inquire as to the well-being of the flock under SGM leadership, that is another story. They don’t want to see the truth, they have other interests involved, or they don’t care. Any way you look at it, part of the flock (Church) can be sacrificed for their desires. They are not pastoring “biblically” either.
I guess my problem with all of this “lets just be hush hush” from Mellinger is the double standard. How many lowly members did I personally see get “outed” and publicly skewered by these men at Covenant Fellowship? And yet, when one the leader of the pack has an issue, it’s just a standing Ovation, a “let’s keep it in the family” sort of deal.
Did Larry get to quietly ride off when someone in his family was causing him stress?
Whatever, Dr. Harvey is a smart educated man…but he does not practice what he preach.
Deuteronomy 32:35,
#13 – Excellent comment. :goodpost
Does it really matter all that much which SGM church stops their funding? The problems remain, the problems are systemic. Time and time again these leaders display an attitude more like that of Pharaoh than Jesus. They’ve lied, run for cover, thrown families and children under the bus and abandoned the people they are paid to care for. It’s a good thing we did not have to rely on men like these to storm the beaches of Normandy.
In the Nick,
If you are comfortable answering, were you in CLC?
You gotta understand that covfel people quote more mellinger and their own pastors than they do the bible and so anything the leadership says, goes… any covfel members who think for themselves have already left, anyone still there will do anything and believe anything Jared and others say
:bang
As israel got what they wanted, Saul! So do congregations
:scratch
IMO Dave is removing himself as the fall guy for CJ. CJ’s ongoing manic narcisism (leaving CLC,joining another church temporarily, starting another church eventually, who knows what his vision for SGM is…) is leaving Dave’s head spinning. He doesn’t want to be accountable for CJ anymore. CJ will eventually take a hard fall. Dave does not want to be crushed between CJ and the “Rock” that CJ will be broken on. I believe that the HS is doing a work here. Prayer is needed, but Dave is being wise in getting away from CJ – if he does… I think the others as they see the fruit of CJ, not being the fruit of the spirit will follow Dave’s lead… unless blinded (ultimately by God) as He sews justice…
Diego –
My understsnding, which could be wrong, is that DH stepped away from CFC duties but will still be on staff at SGM. If you want to step away from CJ, wouldn’t you quit SGM, stay at CFC, and lead that congregation away from SGM?
I still can’t get over the fact that CJ, especially, nor anyone from SGM, was at CFC to support DH and his family. Where are your friends when you need them most? They never seem to be around when you need them. Is it CJ who is never around when these guys need him?
CJ is on the board of SGM, temporarily(?), but with no Larry, no Brent, haven’t heard boo from Steve Shank in all of this, and now Dave Harvey is taking a back seat. Mickey is still around (and up for an SGM board seat?) but will he survive. This is the picture of the last three years.
Kris, such an excellent post. This desire (idol) to always believe in the “right” theology is so elitist, so unloving. Remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees in Matthew, when they cried foul over the disciples picking and eating heads of grain on the Sabbath? “I desire mercy not sacrifice” and then He goes on to talk about David eating consecrated bread, and says “It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” In other words, ULTIMATELY, it is the law of love that should prevail, not every jot and tittle of the written law.
I have experienced such freedom realizing how Jesus came to unburden us from the rules so many leaders would have us follow. Now, I listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit, I read my Bible for myself, and don’t ask “What Would My Pastor Do?” I have lost so much respect for these so-called leaders. Shame on them.
It is so funny that CJ could affirm “The Sufficiency of Scripture” idea, when it seems that CLC/SGM has come up with sins that aren’t in the Bible…..
—like the sin of being “unentreatable” (a la CJ)
—like the “wayward sin of wanting something too much” (a la the prophecy mike at CLC at the 9am service yesterday…..)
—like the “idol of comfort” (personal favorite of mine that Ben Wickner told 2 Feet Out)
If CJ really thought the Bible was so sufficient like his RBD pals, why would his baby (CLC/SGM) use so many terms that are not found in the Bible?
CJ paints a nice image for himself, but it seems little more than a white-washed tomb to me. Remember all the extra rules that the Pharisees added? CJ’s legacy shows that the Bible actually isn’t all sufficient!
CJ has surrounded himself with a bunch of enablers, who praise him incessantly and tiptoe around him when things get rough. That’s my take on RBDs who seem so enamoured with CJ…….
Q: Why didn’t the skeleton cross the road?
A: He didn’t have the guts!
Great analysis as usual, Kris – and great insight, “just saying”, on the disconnect between the normal Reformed (and wider) understanding of the nature of pastoral ministry and SGM’s internal understanding of such.
From Kris’ post –
From “just saying” #7 –
If the correct understanding of Scripture informs correct doctrine, correct polity and correct practice (which seems to be formulaic for the modern Reformed crowd), and acceptance of the 5 Solas and TULIP is the litmus test for the correct understanding of Scripture, how could anything possibly go that far wrong? Can you really blame these guys for thinking the SGM detractors are just a bunch of disgruntled whack jobs who are making up stories and trying to stir up trouble? (PLEASE don’t think I’m being serious here).
5years said –
SGM has worked so hard at making everything look great from the outside. I think they’ve missed out on a lot of sweet communion – you know, the bone-crushing hugs and laugh-till-you-cry moments and float-in-the-air joy that we get from just hanging with Jesus…. you know, the stuff that makes you not really give a rip about what other people think. The stuff that helps you realize that repentance is the beginning of FREEDOM. You know, the LOVE that made His grace possible in the first place.
Correct doctrine as a framework of thought is only part of the Christian equation. It’s like a gutless skeleton – it lacks the empathy, compassion, mercy, pity, and humility to be truly human – like Jesus was.
It understands the miracle at Cana as proof Jesus could do miracles and display God’s power – but it doesn’t down a couple glasses of wine and party with Him at the wedding.
It understands forgiveness as a cancellation of a debt, but it can’t fathom the gut-wrenching mix of sorrow, joy and hope that caused the tears in the woman that washed Jesus’ feet with them.
It doesn’t really get “there but for the grace of God go I”.
Maybe SGM leaders can’t work up the courage to repent because they can’t see the joy on the other side. Maybe they can’t see a positive outcome in the application of their doctrine to themselves. But even the best doctrine is still all bones, no guts. C’mon SGM leaders, have some guts. Jesus really LOVES you. Frankly, I’ll take that over all the old dead guys anyday.
And out there in Reformed land, Dr. Calvin is examining the condition of the skeleton and pronouncing the patient well. :)
Oh… yeah…. my 29 should read “truly human – like Jesus was (and is).”
*want to be doctrinally correct* :)
When I wrote on the other thread that SGM is over, it assumed my expectation that what was SGM will split into Mahaney and “other” (no great prophetic gifts there). So, over-but-not-over in the PR sense.
However, SGM ‘as it was’ with the wizards dispensing magic dust over their sins is over. This is why I see DH as significant. With his dismissal, the lid comes off any pretence that the past nine months was objective and responsive.
SGM outlasted LT and hoped to outlast CJ’s humiliation/restoration; now add DH (next acting President) which further invalidates the pose of the past nine months … not to mention the disappearing of CJ’s successor, Josh Harris. BD is surely correct that the unwanted exposure of sin/corruption is not going to stop, either.
Put another way, the SGM narrative which relied heavily on coolness (old/Mahaney, young/Harris) blended with profound humility (no comment there), trustworthy extra-local leadership to buttress local church doctrine on submission (cough, cough), exclusive in-house training of Board-clones (Pastors College) and the cachet to SGM churches of celebrity conferences is done.
The only piece that will endure is the ‘celebrity conferences’. Obviously, Devers, Mohler et all can’t afford, literally, to let that collapse. Besides, we Americans have loved it so ever since Finney; can’t blame that on SGM or Mahaney. My point is simply that even those conferences won’t be a SGM narrative any longer, but someone/thing else. C.J. will be discarded if/when he stops being a draw.
Without the narrative, the SGM brand is worthless or nearly so. SGM’s ‘successors’ will try to prove it still has value; we’ll see, of course. Nor am I saying there won’t be 100 churches with the SGM label around six months or two years from now. Who knows. Who cares.
I’m just saying the SGM brand/narrative is shot to bits and that DH’s exposure, though very small news outside SGM (heck, even inside it to most members) is as big a blow, organizationally, as Mahaney being forced to take a leave of absence last summer. It may even be bigger since the narrative they wanted to install AFTER the summer (C.J. doing his ‘real’ ministry, while DH steers a new Board) has been annuilled. Without DH, there is no one left with sufficient internal authority to keep the local churches in line.
So, yeah, SGM is over.
I left CF when Dave was still senior pastor. I visited and kept up with the transition to Mellinger. I didn’t think Dave had any pastoral responsibilities at CF since. His job was entirely with SGM, so if he was stepping back it made sense to me that it was in the responsibilites of SGM, not CF (his local church). Maybe he had re assumed some responsibilites in the recent years, but not sure. His stress may be from a family situation, but I think that would be more of an excuse, in my opinion, to the major stress that CJ has been to him.
FF, I love your skeleton analogy!! :goodpost
I wonder if the Dave-situation played a part in Jim Donahue’s sudden sabbatical? I also wonder whether the timing of CJ resuming the presidency had anything to do with the Dave-situation?
I hardly think we have seen the last of Mr. Harvey. CJ will undoubtedly restore him and bring him on-board full-time, if he hasn’t already. He is too valuable to him, unless he has royally offended CJ in some way, we have not been apprised.
With all this double-speak, we need to create a dictionary of SGM Terms that helps explain the differences between:
‘stepping back’, ‘stepping down’ and ‘stepping away’.
Also, is there really a huge difference between sabbatical and vacation?
I think that in a Sabbatical you are supposed to have some sort of defined goal, something you are hoping to accomplish that is hard to accomplish when you have your everyday responsibilities requiring attention. So if you are taking a vacation so that you can paint your house, you can call it a Sabbatical, imho, even if your goal isn’t especially academic, but if you are simply planning to relax and “recreate,” then it is just a vacation.
So, DH didn’t repent. He’s on the payroll from CFC and/or SGM and I am supposed to believe he is sincere this time? For the years that I have known him, he is a slick kid who always had something up his sleeve, a Plan B. He may be stressed. All this hidden drama would take its toll on anyone. He created his kingdom. He didn’t let Bill, Alan, Don, or Joe stand in his way. He may have to rethink how to get back on top of the heap and take over SGM without anyone thinking poorly of him. Am I bitter? No. I just can’t believe there are so many :koolaid at CFC. How many leaders have to step down before you say, :huh
Once again Kris, your summation is off the charts brilliant.
5yearsinPDI – Brilliant and to the point. Some of these guys they praise and give honor couldn’t carry the bags of the people they criticize and judge.
Just Saying – You said it well!! I am amazed at the number of ‘pastors’ I have met that really do not like people. I unfortunately conclude that with most pastors and churches it isn’t about equipping the saints for the work of the ministry. It isn’t about the building and edifying one another in the Lord. It isn’t about advancing the kingdom of God and the mission of the King. It isn’t about facing an anti-Christ culture with the gospel of His kingdom? But it is very evident that in most churches it is about ‘a man and his ministry’.
I do fear for the church of Jesus Christ in America. Once upon a time, to serve in political office was personal sacrifice and a call to serve their constituents and their country. Somewhere along the line became a professional occupation and career. Hence I do not trust a professional politician.
Once upon a time pastors were shepherds and servants to God and His people. Somewhere along the line shepherds became professionals (pastors and reverends). So the motivation to serve becomes clouded and their first responsibility is their livelihood, their personal advancement and then the people they are to serve. Hence . . .
It will be interesting when ‘the dirt’ comes out on DH because it will come out. I have a sense that when it does most of the Christian world will wonder why people are so out of sorts and blowing it so out of proportion. There will be immediate compassion and empathy for poor DH – laying down his life and all he gets is grief. (and more standing O’s) What the Christian world will never see or hear is the destruction of men and families by SGM for much less than what comes out with DH. As I measure the SGM fruit, I conclude the authority meted out by these men is nothing short of demonic, self appointed and self-serving, not God serving or church serving. Anyone who trusts these men only enable them to continue to see themselves and act as their own gods.
Jesus said seek first His kingdom and His righteousness. As citizens of His kingdom we are to worship and obey our King. Jesus did not say seek first your church and your righteousness and as members of the church worship and obey your pastor. As a matter of fact, Jesus didn’t want to leave building the church into the hands of men. HE SAID “I will build my church and the gates of hell will not overpower it”.
I let the readers draw their own conclusion – I have drawn mine!!
Covenfell….
Your name is kinda funny…or punny….though probably not intended.
It could also say “Coven Fell”
Coven: coven [ˈkʌvən]
n
1. a meeting of witches
2. a company of 13 witches
That struck me funny for some reason.
Sidney
Deut 32:35 #13 — Thanks for your care for me shown by your words. I agree with what you have said but I want to avoid judging unfairly and/or participating in gossip, also, in being a party to wanting SGM leaders to get what I think they deserve. Prov 24:17-18 says, ‘Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles, lest the Lord see it and be displeased, and turn away His anger from him’. (I don’t necessarily count CJ/Dave as my enemies, but they come close, don’t they.) I’m eager to see and allow God to do the work in these men, without my interference. I will trust God!
The main reason is 1), I think. I’m unconvinced by 2) for most guys because they don’t have a problem with criticizing other big name pastors (eg. Rick Warren).
The doctrine thing is important because the rbds know that doctrines they value (complementarianism, inerrability of the Bible, penal substitutionary atonement and justification as defined luther) are under attack and they need all the allies they can get to defend them. CJ believes these doctrines and so he’s an ally.
Other reasons, as other people have said, include:
a) rbds don’t see that sgm uses many words with a different meaning than the ones they are used to so they don’t see how weird some stuff is
b) rbds personally like CJ and that proves he’s OK
c) rbds get a big ovation when they speak at an sgm conference and that proves sgm is a sound organization
Irv 38 worth repeating:
As I measure the SGM fruit, I conclude the authority meted out by these men is nothing short of demonic, self appointed and self-serving, not God serving or church serving. Anyone who trusts these men only enable them to continue to see themselves and act as their own gods.
Sad, but true.
If anyone has the time, Robin Boisvert gave a great message yesterday at CLC regarding the qualification of an elder to be trustworthy. It was the 4th in a 6 part series on church government.
There are always whacky churches out there, from almost day one. If that were not the case, we may not have much in regard to Paul’s writings other than his flowery preambles of greetings and thanks.
That being said, SGM’s reputation has never been as much of a concern for me. In the course of human history, reputation has done little in the way of bringing change.
CJ and friends can enjoy all the back slapping and self affirmation they want, does not change who God is, or what they will get when they meet him. The notion that their self proclaimed apostolic status gives them a sort of free pass is really just sad.
Unlike the years before though, there are places like this blog where people can go when the grapes of SGM go sour. These blogs are invaluable to those in need of understanding and healing when the false utopian world of SGM comes down for someone.
As someone who has literally burred friends in the pre blog days, these blogs,
while not a remedy for the false teachings of SGM, are still of infinite value.
As long as we live in a fallen world, there will be SGM’s.
Besides, CJ is still a human being with a finite life span, while God is infinite.
This latest ‘stepping back’ makes the whole SGM debacle remind me of a game of dominoes.
When the Great and Terrible Oz first posted his first letter announcing his side-step, back-step, one- step, two-step, I wondered when the other shoe would drop.
Since then, there has been a veritable tap-dance of falling shoes. And the fat lady hasn’t even sung yet.
Who’s next?
Bang on the money.
ATC, Bristol, UK.
Covenfell #37
EXACTLY!!!
I was there over two decades and, I tell you, SGM pastors are notorious for clamoring and jockeying for position all while paying lip-service to “humility.” Only the smart-talking, Type A guys make it to the top and they have to do a good job of “appearing” humble while in the review process.
Who ever said the kingdom of God was about appearances and jockeying for position? :scratch
I wonder if allowing the current Pastors College class complete the year will affect the timing of changes in the physical location of SGM and CLC’s support of it. Does anyone know?
Oswald #40: I appreciate that you received what I said to you as care, and I appreciate your consideration of scripture as your guide. I have held back much from the blogs because I wanted to see God work. But God works through us too…that from scripture is clear…there comes a time to act…Paul acted…and agressively opposed hypocrisy even in Peter another confirmed church leader…and he opposed legalism wherever he saw it…so we need to consider all of scripture…when we oppose evil…Jesus even called Peter Satan (come to think of it he really got it a lot didn’t he!!) and he was clearly the leader in Jerusalem…I know the scriptures talk about not accusing an elder…but given these examples clearly SGM has taken that way too far…they don’t want you to pass gas in their direction for fear you may ruffle their white robes…gimme a break…what’s that sports show called??? “C’Mon Man”…somebody throw the big fat yellow penalty flag already…blessings Os…
Irv, #38, Thank you!