Courier-Journal Covers SGM Louisville Launch
October 2, 2012 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
From the Courier-Journal comes the following (read the full article and view video clips and photos here):
Sovereign Grace Church brings history, controversy to new Louisville launch
Greeters beamed with smiles, children handed out visitor cards and parents lined up to register for child care. After more than 20 minutes of opening worship led by a band with electric guitar and keyboards, the pastor took to the podium.
“And so Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville begins,” said C.J. Mahaney, 59. “… We are just a group of primarily old guys attempting to church-plant one more time before we die in order to serve the next generation with the gospel.”
As understated as that sounds, rarely does a new congregation bring as much history — and controversy — as Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville, which began worshiping Sunday at Christian Academy’s English Station campus in eastern Jefferson County.
The launch represents not just another new church but the exodus of leaders of an entire denomination, Sovereign Grace Ministries, to Louisville.
The denomination — which includes more than 90 churches with about 28,000 members worldwide — has already seen two congregations split off amid controversies. And by all accounts, more churches may leave if leaders decide to assert more central authority after an ongoing review of the denomination’s form of government.
Former members have told of pastors and small-group leaders probing into members’ personal lives and shaming them for real or perceived sins — sometimes ostracizing members were deemed unrepentant, wounding them spiritually and cutting off close friendships.
Mahaney himself, a co-founder and longtime president of Sovereign Grace, has been accused of pride, dictatorial conduct and a lack of accountability. He took leave from his post last year amid one controversy, but internal church reviews found him fit for ministry and returned him to the presidency.
In Mahaney’s inaugural sermon in Louisville, he alluded to the tumult, saying he wanted the church to have a quiet launch. But “if God allows opposition in some form, criticism in some form, slander in some form,” it would be worth it if “there are lives transformed by the gospel.”
“Satan isn’t elated about this church,” he said.
Move to Louisville
Sovereign Grace leaders, including Mahaney, moved their headquarters to Louisville amid a growing estrangement from the denomination’s mother church in Gaithersburg, Md., the site of its offices since its inception in 1982.
Until now, it had no church in Kentucky or Indiana, but Louisville is now home to its new flagship church, which will double as a training ground for new pastors.
It is part of a multi-denominational movement known as New Calvinism — which emphasizes God’s grace over human free will in saving sinners, as well as church discipline, strong pastoral authority and male leadership in homes and churches.
In moving to Louisville, Sovereign Grace also is deepening its cooperation with Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, an epicenter of the New Calvinist movement. Seminary President Albert Mohler, with whom Mahaney regularly headlines conference programs, has lauded Sovereign Grace “as a demonstration of the revitalization of Christianity in the early 21st century.”
Mahaney is a member of the seminary-hosted Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, which promotes male authority in churches and homes.
His ministry began in the early 1970s, when the converted former drug user began preaching at hippie-friendly Christian festivals and eventually helped found Covenant Life Church, now a megachurch in Gaithersburg, and later the Sovereign Grace network.
He has become a regular at Calvinist conferences such as Together for the Gospel in Louisville, where admirers have lined up to get book autographs and pose for photos with him.
But controversies arose after some former Sovereign Grace members and leaders — including some who worked closely with Mahaney for years — described a pattern of spiritual abuse and cult-like behavior within Sovereign Grace and its churches. The controversies simmered for years on blogs with such names as SGM Survivors and SGM Refuge.
Then, in the summer of 2011, a founding member of the Sovereign Grace board, Brent Detwiler of North Carolina, distributed documents to pastors detailing years of confrontations over what Detwiler termed Mahaney’s abusive, manipulative and dishonest behavior.
Internal church reviews found Mahaney had some culpability, but disputed Detwiler’s sweeping claims.
A separate report by an independent conflict-resolution group, Ambassadors of Reconciliation, did not weigh charges against individuals but confirmed “a number of people have experienced deep hurts and disappointments in SGM churches.”
An “over-emphasis of the teaching about sin without the balance of God’s grace leads people to be judgmental, critical, and at times despondent,” the report said. “At the same time … many thousands of people have been and continue to be richly blessed by their involvement in a SGM church.”
Mahaney apologized in a written statement that “deficiencies in my leadership have contributed to the ministry failures cataloged” in the Ambassadors report.
And in an interview, he denied systemic problems in the denomination.
“All pastors, to differing degrees, make mistakes,” he said. “All pastors also come with their own set of limitations, weaknesses, patterns of sin. … That’s not to minimize in any way where offense has occurred, and scripture is clear about the continuing influence of sin in all of our lives and how we are to humbly pursue reconciliation where offense has occurred.”
Of Detwiler, Mahaney said: “He was a friend, and I pray God has mercy on him.”
Critics persist
Mahaney’s critics contend the denomination never gave their charges a fair hearing or adequately reconciled with those hurt by the church.
“It’s just been a continuing downplay of what’s been happening,” Detwiler said.
Bob Dixon of suburban Richmond, Va., who belonged to Sovereign Grace congregations for 30 years and was a former care-group leader, said those interested in participating with Sovereign Grace Ministries should heed Jesus’ counsel about the biblical Pharisees — to consider actions as well as words.
People should not only “consider what they say and write but consider what they’ve done, in particular to their ex-pastors, and then the members of their churches,” he said.
Joshua Harris — pastor of Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg and a best-selling author promoting traditional courtship, rather than dating — acknowledged strains in his relationship with Mahaney, his one-time mentor, when he resigned last year.
Of Harris and other pastors whose churches have left the denomination, Mahaney said the most important thing is that “we love the same savior, we preach the same gospel.”
One of Sovereign Grace’s the most high-profile splits involved Larry Tomczak, who pioneered the movement with Mahaney, in 1997.
Accounts vary on the details, but according to a Sovereign Grace report, Mahaney and other board members held out a threat of exposing wrongdoing by Tomczak’s teenage son, which the boy had confessed in confidence to church leaders. “The threat was … wrong. It was coercive. It was sinful,” the report said.
And while the two men had a public reconciliation in 2011, Tomczak said Mahaney and board leaders still hadn’t acknowledged “a pattern that has devastated our immediate and extended families, plus scores of God’s people across the country.”
Bob Kauflin, director of Sovereign Grace Music and a longtime leader in the ministry, said: “We’re thankful for Larry and his ongoing ministry, but have no further comment on the subject.”
Members praise church
None of those controversies were evident at the opening of Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville.
About 45 adults from Gaithersburg and other Sovereign Grace churches participated in the launch, and about 230 people attended in all, including local visitors, out-of-town well-wishers and numerous children.
“We love marriage and all things related to family and children,” Mahaney said.
Jake Simmons, 26, said he became a Christian in a Sovereign Grace church in Knoxville, Tenn., before coming to Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He said his pastors there helped him mature and prepare for ministry, and when the controversies erupted, they “cleared their schedule for whoever wanted to talk.”
Kathy Spiro, who was involved in the Gaithersburg church about 30 years, moved to Prospect to help plant the congregation.
She said that, during her husband’s recent fatal illness, “the care the church provided was amazing,” and that, whenever she turned to pastors for counsel, they would advise but never dictate.
Spiro, 59, a sign-language interpreter now living in Prospect, said the previous year’s controversy should not “define the movement.”
“I feel like the leaders are men of integrity, all of them, and they’ll sort it out,” she said.
Several Baptist and other churches have welcomed the church’s arrival, seeing it as an ally rather than a competitor.
“I anticipate the church plant will grow quickly since they proclaim the good news about Jesus Christ and have a godly and gifted team of ministers,” said Tom Schreiner, a professor at Southern Seminary and pastor of preaching at Clifton Baptist, where Mahaney preached recently.
Mahaney said he told Clifton Baptist members he appreciated their support and added, “None of you are welcome at our church plant” — because he wants to reach people who don’t have a church, not take members from churches.
Worship leader Bob Kauflin added that church members “don’t want to reinvent the wheel” and have begun volunteering at other churches’ events, such as a recent community-service project at Sojourn Community Church’s midtown campus. “If you’re doing something effective in your community that you just need bodies and resources for, we want to join you,” he said.
Read Peter Smith’s Faith and Works blog at www.courier-journal.com/faithblog.
Thoughts?
© 2012, Kris. All rights reserved.
230 people on the first meeting?!
The way people flocked from miles around to CJ and his first real church meeting just screams cult to me.
My first thought was that it’s not exactly a glowing report, and CJ and friends might not be very pleased. I think Peter Smith did his homework and wrote a fairly balanced article. I know if I lived in Louisville and was thinking about checking out this church, I’d definitely think twice after reading the article. And especially after watching the video! Like I said in my comment at the end of the previous post, CJ really comes across as some kind of lunatic.
I like how no matter what he’s saying, it’s said with the same enunciation and emphasis and arm movements.
I have always been impressed with Smith’s articles on SGM – first one was when the Big Bang happened last year.
Wow! Just wow!! This article makes the church plant sound even worse than i think it is, and i think it’s pretty stinkin’ lame! Good job to whoever wrote it. It is well-deserved by the new SGM. I hate to wish ill-will on any church, new or old, but these bozo-coward-hypocrits are dangerous and i do want to protect the innocent potential congregants in L’ille
Just posted the link to the article on my fb page – it will be interesting to see if my friend count goes down over the next 24 hours. Some of my friends have never looked at the blogs — this article may contain the first honest press they have ever seen about SGM.
Sounds like it’s time to send Peter Smith your story. You can send it here:
psmith@courier-journal.com
Well, they certainly got the review they deserved; kudos to Smith for not pulling punches.
And, it looks like SGMS and SGMR will be getting more readers!
Notice the new version of love-bombing?
“…church members ‘don’t want to reinvent the wheel’ and have begun volunteering at other churches’ events, such as a recent community-service project at Sojourn Community Church’s midtown campus. ‘If you’re doing something effective in your community that you just need bodies and resources for, we want to join you,’ [Kauflin] said.”
Oh, and I agree: Mahaney’s eccentricities are amplified. How can those people sit there? Must be great, being informed that your “euphoria” will one day disappear, and that there’s still a lot of sin in you to deal with! So much to look forward to!
I think the article is remarkably accurate and very well-researched. Greater L’ville can’t say they haven’t received fair warning.
Did you notice in the photos and video how all the out-of-town visitors to the first SGML meeting spread themselves out the auditorium leaving lots of empty seats between them? It kind of makes it look more well-attended. I noticed a lot of out visitors were from Solid Rock. I wonder if they were invited or just independently decided to all go down on the same day?
As I read the article and watched the clip, all I could think is, “I’m glad I’m not there.”
It is good to be free.
Jonathon
I found quite a few of the quotes from SGM folk to be rather remarkable. I noticed CJ’s comment about “slander” first of all –
I wonder if CJ realizes he’s already tipped his hand? This kind of talk, in which he already tosses around the word “slander,” makes him sound paranoid. In the normal outside Christian world, it’s not slander to share about your own personal negative experience with something. What a wackadoo.
And then there was this weird comment from Bob K at the end –
Does anyone realize just how much the SGM tiger has changed its stripes? It wasn’t that long ago when SGMers were expressly discouraged from “serving” anywhere else except in their SGM churches or SGM-sponsored events. There’s something really creepy about such a dramatic shift, when you get the feeling it’s being done more to impress people and suck people into SGM rather than because anyone’s thinking has actually changed.
I think there is something up with CJ. He is either becoming more and more eccentric…. or paranoid, or he was just always strange and I did not see it. The bottom line is that when you compare he preaching to his buddies like MacArthur and Piper – the other two are simply superior expositors and what CJ does is simply ramble and repeat stuff. Is this new ? My exposure to SGM is mostly the last three years or so, and I have never thought his sermons were that good, so I just did not bother listening to his messages. Perhaps back in the old days he was a more engaging speaker. I am not sure how he become so renowned.
I wanted to throw a question out to the group: Is it normal in your SGM church to have the pastors communicate almost exclusively through their secretaries? I find it odd that emails go out from the office staff, that pretty much contain a cut and pasted email from the pastors. I have seen this and heard about it in more than one church. This is not a major issue, but I think it is another symptom of the bigger problem.
Also…
In the video clip that accompanied the story, Brian Cheesemore introduced himself and told a bit about how SGM had moved from Gaithersburg to Louisville. The first thing I noticed was how much Mr. Cheesemore resembles CJ. It’s not so much in looks – he hasn’t shaved his head or anything – as much as it is in the way he holds his mouth when he talks. But the similarities in diction and facial expression are uncanny.
And then I wonder if any of those who followed CJ down to Louisville realize just how odd it is that a denomination could move itself hundreds of miles across state lines against the preferences of a majority of its members. No, there hasn’t been any formal poll or anything, but I bet if there were, it would be quite clear that only a small percentage of SGMers are really for the move. It’s not anything that was initiated because the members wanted it. Many think it’s downright unnecessary and don’t understand it or support it.
In normal Christianity, such a move would never happen if a denomination’s members’ opinions were so mixed. This whole thing demonstrates SGM’s cultishness in a big way. The decision to move to Louisville had everything to do with following CJ and virtually nothing to do with following Jesus.
Nickname I would still be your friend!
From the article: Mahaney said he told Clifton Baptist members he appreciated their support and added, “None of you are welcome at our church plant” — because he wants to reach people who don’t have a church, not take members from churches.
If this is true, it’s a simple matter to refuse membership to anyone coming from other local evangelical churches. However, it’s probably just that they don’t want to pull people from certain “friend” churches where CJ is close with the existing leadership.
I had the thought, “I hope they’ll publish some numbers in a year or two that indicate ho much of their congregation was formerly unchurched.” But then I realized “unchurched” could probably be twisted pretty easily to mean “not in the right kind of church.”
@Sick With Worry #13 – “what CJ does is simply ramble and repeat stuff. Is this new ?”
I remember finding CJ engaging when I was downloading sermons to listen to in the car (not at an SGM church at the time) and never realized the oddities until I had my wife listen to a sermon with me. As I was looking at her occasionally, she didn’t seem to be all that engaged and as I listened more closely I realized why – he constantly repeats phrases and his messages – though long – rarely go that deep. Huge amounts of time are spent on stories that are more memorable than the theological content they’re supposed to teach. CJ, the person, overshadows his own messages.
“Is it normal in your SGM church to have the pastors communicate almost exclusively through their secretaries? I find it odd that emails go out from the office staff, that pretty much contain a cut and pasted email from the pastors.”
Just a hunch here…there’s a good chance those secretaries may be editing grammatical errors or unclear language. Spell check only goes so far and I know I’ve read e-mails sent from pastors or notes sent home from my kids teachers and thought, “They should have sent this through someone else to clean up the glaring grammar mistakes.” (I can only catch the glaring ones.)
Of course, it’s also possible they’re trying to limit responses directly back into their inbox. I’d have a huge problem with a pastor that doesn’t sincerely welcome direct feedback from anyone.
I did a little quick research. For christian schools in Louisville, the tuition for high school ranges from $4,500-$6,000. The school where SGM is holding their new flagship church has high school tuition of $8,600.
Wow! What part of town is this new flagship church in?
(this might have already been discussed. If so, pardon my lateness.)
Sidney
I’m glad to see the Courrier-News article. I think it should be rerun weekly for several months until everybody looking for a church in Louisville has been made aware of SGM.
It is very difficult to watch the video and see people for whom I deeply respected living life and ministering in the name of Jesus with CJ and company.
Many folks on this blog have mentioned that the faithful in SGM have drank the Kool Aid. I certainly understand the reference. I’d like to add that Kool Aid is an artificial fruit drink. Artificial being the key word. How can these folks produce Spiritual Fruit when the leadership, community and twisted gospel they preach is artificial?
Oh, and Nickname – I’m still your friend.
Years ago – back in The Beginning – Mahaney’s messages did indeed have content and a point to them. I was taught and blessed enormously.
If he was repetitive it was that he kept saying “turn to [verse] in your Bible – on the way there, let’s look at [verse]!” His delight in the scriptures, and how multiple verses reveal God’s character and wisdom in different ways, was exciting and infectious. He was funny but insightful.
Nowadays, he’s obviously just talking – and talking – because he thinks it’s his job and he loves the attention.
“The Glory has departed”, which I fear will be his epitaph.
I found this quite presumptive that C.J. Mahaney was quoted as saying:
Maybe Satan is “elated.” Sadly, in some ways Satan may be elated about what has happened in SGM including C.J. Mahaney fleeing to KY under the guise of “planting” a church there. I am sure Statan is “elated” about the church split C.J.’s lack of repentance has caused not to mention its affect has caused on at least some believer’s faith. One could also mention the lying about why the move was done etc.
God can and will turn around things for His good but was something to hear what C.J. Mahaney could say. I imagine C.J. is more sincerely deceived than being insincere. It is sad that those around C.J. allow C.J. to remain deceived vs.
I was glad that the article gave a fairly balanced report about SGM. It wouldn’t have surprised me if C.J.’s friends in town were able to get a glowing article about SGM in the paper. Again, it was good that it showed some of the “darker” sides of SGM and C.J. Mahaney.
Keepinstep @9 –
That made me want to turn off the video – short as it was it was depressing.
Does anyone know of other SGM churches turning away prospective members from other churches . . . I guess that is only said when the other churches are pastored by your friends :)
Again, I don’t know if this has already been discussed. But, since Ms Spiro chose to tell the reporter where she lives, she chose to leave herself and the rest of her SGM friends exposed. She lives in Prospect. I did a little digging.
From the Wikipedia article:
“Prospect is Kentucky’s best educated city, proportionately, with 74.4% of adult residents (25 and older) holding an associate degree or higher, and 69.9% of adults possessing a baccalaureate degree or higher (2000 Census).”
“The racial makeup of the city was 92.91% White, 3.39% African American, 0.26% Native American, 2.06% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 0.21% from other races, and 1.14% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.64% of the population.”
“The median income for a household in the city was $111,170, and the median income for a family was $124,131. Males had a median income of $100,000 versus $42,159 for females. The per capita income for the city was $51,469. 1.5% of the population and 0.8% of families were below the poverty line.”
Let’s make the same comparison to G’burg:
“The racial makeup of the city is 34.7% White, 19.5% Black or African American, 0.2% Native American, 13.9% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 3.6% from other races, and 3.2% from two or more races. 24.8% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. 34.3% of Gaithersburg’s population was foreign-born.”
The Wiki article doesn’t have any info about education levels or median income, so here’s what I could find elsewhere:
All I could find about education was that around 55% completed higher education.
And this from city-data:
“Estimated median household income in 2009: $82,585”
And now…I’ve spent way too much time on this nonsense. It just makes me sad that CLC is still willing to affiliate themselves with SGM. I will not lose hope….
More random impressions…
In the video, there’s the distinct sense that the Louisville church is all about CJ. He was the only one shown teaching. He was the one shown greeting, shaking hands with, and kissing people. Obviously they are believing that CJ’s celebrity and the opportunity to rub shoulders with him (“Look everyone, CJ really walks among us and is willing to receive a kiss on the cheek!”) is going to draw people.
Yet they then go out of their way to make it clear that Mr. Cheesemore is actually the senior pastor?
And what what is up with feeling the need to tell the world they aren’t out to poach members from other churches? As the old cliché goes, “Methinks thou doth protest too much.” If SGM were really all about new converts and spreading the gospel to unchurched people, their new church plants would be happening in unchurched areas…and their newer congregations would be filled with new converts and have heavily utilized baptismal tanks. They know very well that the average newcomer to SGM is not new to church. They know very well that the vast majority of people who will show up to check out the Louisville church will have come from other churches. Unchurched people don’t have any awareness of CJ’s celebrity, Calvinism, or the finer nuances of what it means to be “Charismatic AND Reformed” and why that’s supposed to be such a great selling point.
SGM Louisville knows very well who comprises its target audience. Their guilty consciences prompt them to get up and spout those silly and embarrassing lines about not welcoming members from other churches.
Since Cj always refers to Jesus as the savior, shouldn’t he refer to satan as the enemy?
Kris-
I think you are exactly write about the whole “were not here to take people from other churches”.
What was the old saying back in the Vietnam War era? Don’t believe anything until it’s been officially denied…seems that if you want to know what they are up to, pay attention to their denials.
RE satan: I knew people going through SGM counseling. Oppression by evil spirits was never allowed to be part of their problem – it was their sin, sin, sin that needed to be identified, admitted and renounced. (To the man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.)
SGM only acknowledges evil spirits if someone opposes and confronts SGM leaders with THEIR OWN sin. To SGM, regular saints just aren’t important enough to warrant demonic attack. (Of course, the Bible’s accounts of deliverance tell a different tale.)
The SGCL people mention that they don’t steal people from other churches, and BK mentions that they will work along-side other churches in the area because they must refute comments they have seen HERE that the opposite is true. This is often the case.
musicman’s comment is so true: “Don’t believe anything until it’s been officially denied…seems that if you want to know what they are up to, pay attention to their denials”.
No way there are 230 people there. Look at the video on Refuge. I have seen larger crowds on the last day of the month to get your car inspected.
Kris,
You misspelled Brian Chesemore’s name “Cheesemore”. I think it was accidental, but it made me laugh. I knew several of his friends in the past who jokingly mispronounced his name “cheese-more” even though he actually pronounces it “chez-more”.
former-
I disagree…I think the shots of the worship service is around 200 people. Don’t forget, that churches ALWAYS count the children on hand when reporting attendance. The shot of the sermon is telling. I Only see about 50 people listening to CJ’s sermon. That’s a lot of kids and Sunday school teachers(or whatever they call it in SGM) that are somewhere else.
That’s also got to be a blow to CJ.
His sermon style of grandiose vocal inflection and over the top emotions is going to be off-putting to visitors( in my opinion) who have no knowledge of the thousands that used to hang on every word that dripped from CJ’s tongue at CLC or at conferences. I saw some of this dynamic when I was on the Providence Church plant.
I agree with the comments about CJ stating they are not about stealing sheep from other congregations. Again, you have to look at what they do, not what they say. By SGML members making a big deal about serving at Sojourn Church events and asking Soujour to lend them their resources, and asking other churches to help them on Sundays, they are very craftily, developing relationships, that will undoubtedly add to their numbers.
CJ has a thirty-year pattern of sheep-stealing and that will not change in L’ville. The pastors of neighboring churches should at least be aware.
Sidney, the school where SGCL is meeting is located in Metro Louisville’s east end, which is the most affluent part of town.
so they “save money” by moving to the most expensive part of the town? i can think of 10,000 other places they could have moved that would have cost them less.
when is someone in SGM leadership going to call “baloney” on these guys? or in any leadership? people, you are letting truth down.
Gang,
The move to Louisville never had anything to do with cost savings. When I was in the military we called that the “cover story”. Stick to the cover story no matter what is always the plan when you are hiding stuff!
Sidney – yes, the dynamics of Louisville are definitely very different than good old Gburg!
As for Brian talking and/or moving like C.J. – I don’t know him, but wouldn’t be surprised. I remember when Josh first came to CLC. He was a total C.J. clone. It was so freaky.
I pray people can come to the Lord in spite of these crazy issues, but hopefully in another church. As for me, unfortunately I still can’t stomach much of the crazy lingo and actions in the church, though I do love my current church. I still find it hard to get past certain things to the real meat of Christianity.
As a longtime (now former) member of PDI/SGM, I can say with relative confidence that the two PDI churches I was part of did not add many new converts to the group. I can count the number of baptisms I saw on one hand. It wasn’t about bringing in the newly converted but teaching christians how to live a “godly” life. That’s why we have said again and again on these blogs that the PDI/SGM churches were poachers.
Interesting that CJ felt compelled to address this.
Also, the change from being “isolationists” to offering to help other churches in serving the community is a direct about face. It is good that they offer this but I would suspect their motives.
One more thing; I would not attend a church who does not use the name of Jesus in their every day lingo. The “savior” seems to have replaced the Name that has so much power in it. They also use “the gospel” to replace Jesus’ name. His name is ablove all things. Why do they not use it regularly? This is scary to me.
Like someone said above, “The Glory has departed.”
The fact that they planted in an affluent part of town is nothing new. And it is very sad.
“Satan is not happy about this church plant”? …… Hmmm………
sorry…correction … “elated”
At any rate, I think he is.
I just watched the video. Dang….. ewwww…… What a mess.
…briefly back to a previous topic I posted about motivations for visitng this site and really struggling with things. Since that post, some really heaven-sent things have happened to me to encourage me, but I wanted to personally thank Kris for her kindness here in addressing the issue for and others as well who reached out to me. Thank you. I read all the posts and they helped me think differently about myself and this issue.
About the present topic, the newspaper article, I read it and thought, wow, what are SGMers thinking about that article? Are the RBD’s calling up CJ to offer comfort, because that article dripped with controversy. SGM must be cringing right about now. Definitely NOT the warm southern hospitality way! I’m SO glad someone in the real world is reporting who has NO stake in SGM! I think the euphoria CJ said wouldn’t last actually ended the day this article hit the newspapers. Maybe the article is what he is alluding to in his sermon? hmmm… I am sure someone probably knew this reporter was not going to report spin for them.
About CJ’s preaching, I remember telling my husband years ago how uncomfortable all his flailing and yelling and EM-PHA-SIZ-ING EV-ER-Y WORD SO PEE-PLE HEARD the GLOR-I-OUS GOS-PEL drove me to distraction.
Wizer, I have been thinking of you since you wrote your very thoughtful post the other day. I am glad to hear God is at work. If you’d be willing to share some of your heaven sent stories of God’s work and what He is doing, I and I am sure some others would be happy to hear them.
Stunned
Glad to know I’ve still got friends! Thank you.
Up to now, the esteemed Dr. M and his cohorts have only known the Ceej in small doses, sound bytes, and signed checks. I wonder how the up-close-and-personal view is going to go over in Baptistville as time goes on? To add to that, the run-of-the-mill Baptist church is just about as enamored of the reformed Dr. M as it is of serving bona-fide wine from a common cup at communion.
Oh, my. Just watched the video, and am aghast. They might as well have thrown cold water from the pulpit. “This euphoria won’t last” and the part about sin still living within you — nothing like a little discouragement during Sunday worship! Imagine that you knocked yourself out to set up housekeeping in a different state or drove from Virginia at $4 a gallon and sprang for a hotel room. Then, on Sunday morning, you got up at the crack of dawn to get those bows in the hair of your perfectly beautiful little children, fed everybody breakfast, did what ever you could to unload the trucks and set up the coffee — and you walk in to hear nothing but doom and gloom!
Bet they’re already taking names of those who came in late and writing them up for the care group leaders to reprimand. Nothing new under the sun.
Two points:
1. It looked like the lady in the video outside the building was nearly embarrased to be kissed by CJ on the way in. Anyone else see that?
2. It is time to get on google or yellowpages.com and look up all the churches in in L’ville and give them Bob K’s phone number… Free help for your church. I think it will be like the guys on the side of the road who have the “Will work for food” signs. all talk, no action.
Sad sad sad. Ichabod church of Louisville.
I could hardly believe it when CJ burst the “euphoria” bubble with his words on sin. On the VERY FIRST DAY of meeting together? Why not put the focus on Jesus, who is suppose to be the Reason for meeting together in the first place?
Love bomb the sheep on the way into church. Slap ’em silly about their sins and send them home. I don’t like to be harsh but this makes me disgusted. Truly appalled. The further away I get from the SGM doctrine, the more shocked I am when I hear it again. Beat down the sheep, make them feel guilty, and show them how much they need their pastors to stand in God’s stead. Hook, line, and sinker. How this must grieve our Father’s heart.
38 Years Gone 46
I noticed a little awkwardness in the cheek kiss between CJ and his neice, Kelly (Ricucci) Murphy. It may have been awkward to do so in front of a camera. I have rarely seen him greet anyone with a kiss, so it seemed a little forced. She and her husband must have been visiting for the inauguration.
Kelley’s husband was sent by CLC to the PC, last year but, they decided to work at the church in Charlotte, instead. Her mother is one of CJ’s sisters.
One of the things that struck me about the premier was how much it resembled a family reunion. So many who fled CLC are related. Only a portion of the new group is not. Even some of the out-of-state vistors were relatives of CJ.
So, it may seem like a Mahaney event, to those who regularly attend that church; more Mahaney-centric than any other SGM church. So, the peculiar ways they behave will undoubtedly be on display more than in any other congregation. That should be interesting.
But, I expect they will change as much as they can about doing church, in an effort to shake the dust of CLC, off their feet.
Thanks Ceej. I thought we were saints, not sinners, our sins are as far from us as east is from west, and that there is now no condemnation… etc. etc.. God looks at our position, not our conditions, that is why there is Grace. Our position is we are free indeed! And the Gospel is good news!!! The euphoria should last, why preach to us it will not? just because that is your experience? Well, the scriptures are clear, why not follow them? Why not peach them??? – And it is your job to tell us why that is so!!! It is your job to tell us we are free indeed!!! To tell us about Grace!! It is your job to preach the good news!!! To tell us why it is good news!! The good news is truly good news. It is not good news to say your euphoria will fade, and that there is much sin in you to deal with. It is not your job to tell us that we are lame sinners!!! It is not good news to tell us we are sinful wretches and to preach how we must do good works to earn our acceptance by Jesus. And by the way, his name IS Jesus!!! not the savior, say his name …. JESUS!!!! there is power in that name. Apparently you are on first name basis with satan, as you recently referred to him.. do you call satan by his first name yet not your savior, Jesus?!!!! need anymore be said???? I think you, Ceej, should give this some thought.
Glad I’m out,
Very well put (#49)
I too noticed how eerie it seemed to be hear about indwelling sin right from the start but this corresponds with the SGM paradigm and practice. It is purposeful and intentional. It is SGM’s way of indoctrinating the Believer into the subtle spiritual manipulation that will follow. Only until they (SGM) establish a sin conscientiousness rather than a grace conscientiousness in the mind and heart of the Believer will their efforts at manipulation and deception prove fruitful.
Once the unsuspecting Believer takes the bait…. hook, line, and sinker will SGM be able to work it’s magic, always able to convince you that whatever concerns or problems exist in your Christian experience are surely yours alone because, after all, you are primarily a sinner. Jesus has failed to completely free you and make you a son or daughter. You are destined to live as a slave. The joy of Christ is perpetually elusive. Your opinions are suspect and do not merit serious consideration. Any suggestion that a leader, at any level, might have a problem is dismissed out of hand because you are tainted with the “sin that remains.” Any serious consideration regarding your perspective, about any subject, will always be received with a jaundiced view because you are perceived as primarily and predominantly a sinner, enslaved, and confused.
The frightening reality is the Bible, in the book of Galatians, refers to Believers who accept this evil teaching as having been “troubled” and “bewitched”.
Btw, the September Newsletter over at http://www.symboulosministries.org does a great job pointing out the serious nature of legalism. It really is frightening to see our brothers and sisters continue to be mesmerized by this man, his movement (SGM), and his spell. We must continue to pray that God would open their eyes to see the peril they have fallen prey to.