Sovereign Grace Ministries Issues Statement About Lawsuit
October 27, 2012 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
From the Sovereign Grace Ministries website comes the following statement:
Updated Statement on Reported Lawsuit
Please be aware of the following press release.
October 26, 2012
Statement by Tommy Hill Sovereign Grace Ministries Director of Administration Re: A Civil Lawsuit Filed Against Sovereign Grace Ministries Oct. 17 in Maryland’s Montgomery County Circuit Court
Though not yet served, Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM) leadership has obtained a copy of the civil lawsuit filed last week against SGM and several pastors of its associational churches. This recent complaint makes broad allegations that SGM pastors were negligent in providing spiritual counsel and pastoral care in situations involving persons who had previously suffered child sexual abuse. It is important to note that it does not allege any act of child abuse by a pastor or staff member of SGM or of an associated church. SGM is not in a position to comment on the specific allegations at this time, but we are beginning a careful legal review of each allegation. Upon initial review it appears the complaint contains a number of untrue or misleading allegations, as well as considerable mischaracterizations of intent.
Child sexual abuse is reprehensible in any circumstance, and a violation of fundamental human dignity. We grieve deeply for any child who has been a victim of abuse. We want to minister the love, grace and healing of God to any who have suffered this horrific act.
SGM is committed to integrity and faithfulness in pastoral care, as are the pastors of local congregations. We take seriously the biblical commands to pursue the protection and well-being of all people – especially children, who are precious gifts given by the Lord and the most vulnerable among us. These biblical commands include fully respecting civil authority to help restrain evil and promote righteousness as Romans 13 instructs us. SGM also encourages the establishment of robust child protection policies and procedures based on best practices.
SGM churches are separately organized and constituted in their respective communities. They voluntarily partner together for certain aspects of their broader common mission: to plant churches, develop resources, train pastors and serve international ministries in order to proclaim the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We ask that you please join us in praying that God guides and leads all of us in these challenging circumstances, ministering His grace, comfort and peace to all who are affected by this situation, and that His truth would prevail.
© 2012, Kris. All rights reserved.
(I posted this in the previous thread but decided to put it here, too. I hope you don’t mind, Kris. I am eager to find out if anyone else has been approached with this.)
I’ve got a question off track here. A friend (currently in an SGM church) recommended this book, “The Bait of Satan” by John Bevere. The subtitle is “Living Free From the Deadly Trap of Offense.” The chapter I am currently reading is “How Spiritual Vagabonds are Born” with sections titled “How Can God Use Corrupt Leaders?”, “Churches Aren’t Cafeterias,” and “The Planted Flourish.” Here’s the question…has anyone else been asked by current SGMers to read this book? Are the pastors pimpin’ (oh, I mean promoting) this book to CGLs to study it in their groups? Are SGMers suggested to recommend this book to those who have left? Just wondering…
Brings to mind an old song from the Eagles…”so often times it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key. I’m already gone…and I’m feelin’ strong…I will sing this vict’ry song!”
Also, here’s something for a little comic relief on how people confuse the words “statue” and “statute.” It’s from a Seinfeld episode. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8gfaFqFpI
CLCya said (in the previous post, comment #360):
Just looking at those chapter titles–ugh!! That manipulative hooey that they were feeding us twenty-five years ago! “How Can God Use Corrupt Leaders?” –because that’s no excuse for you to leave. “Churches Aren’t Cafeterias”–no, ya gotta swallow all the junk they force-feed you, you can’t think for yourself and discern whether something is from God for you, or from God at all.
Makes me so mad. It’s enough to make a preacher’s daughter cuss.
I’ve never heard of that particular book before. ‘Course I haven’t been at a CG meeting for a year.
Let’s write our own book. Chapters will include Living Free from Legalistic BS, How Pharisees are Born, God will Judge Corrupt Leaders, Churches Aren’t for Making Us Robotic Humanoids, and Those That Follow Jesus Flourish.
QE2, I think you’ve got an bestseller in the works ;)
That is a sad attempt to twist the circumstances of what happened. Using the word “previously” makes it sound like these children were molested before they were even a part of SGM. It doesn’t say something more along the lines of these situations where both the alleged molestor and child molested were both part of the same SGM chuch which was the case. Make it sound like the children being molested didn’t have anything to do with the local SGM church.
How sad.
What spin doctors these men are!
QE2
Here are some more chapters you might add Questioning a Leader Isn’t Gossip or Slander, Leaders Should be Questioned, Why there Is Need for Checks/Balances In Church Leadership(especially when you believe in total depravity), Transparency Should be the Rule and Not Exception in Churches, Why Today’s Church Leaders Aren’t “God’s Anointed.”
Others might be “Trusting God” doesn’t mean as a member you are passive (about the actions of church leaders, and Why You Should Know How Your Contributions Are Spent.
The SGM statement also doesn’t address and ignores the allegation that it was known a top SGM leader’s son was a predator which was in the lawsuit. In the lawsuit the following was said:
As early as 1987, the Church was on notice that sexual predation of children was occurring under its auspices. In addition to the incidents described below, the Church learned in 1997 through non-ministerial means that the son of a high-ranking Church leader was engaged in the sexual predation of children under the Church’s care. Yet the Church did absolutely nothing to protect the children.
That is a little more than “situations involving persons who had previously suffered child sexual abuse.”
QE2, here are some more chapters for our book:
How God Can Use Lay Peeps
Living Free from the Deadly Trap of SGM
How Spiritual Slaves to Your “Local Church” Are Born
How to be a Spiritual Zombie
The Planted Actually Produce Fruit
Why Homeschooling (Courtship, Checking Your Brain and Will at the Door) is not a Biblical Mandate
Are You Called? — To Leave SGM?
Women Have Brains
Sounds like a book I’d love to read!
Steve240 –
As I was reading the statement to my husband this morning I said the same thing about the word “previously.” A passerby or a koolaide drinker would think that the “persons” were abused before they were ever a part of SGM.
“SGM churches are separately organized and constituted in their respective communities. They voluntarily partner together for certain aspects of their broader common mission: to plant churches, develop resources, train pastors and serve international ministries in order to proclaim the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
And if the above statement is true then someone needs to explain why there is all this hubub about POLITY and churches that don’t see polity the same way SGM does. It appears to me that SGM wants no legal responsibility for the local churches, but they want most of the spiritual authority over the same churches with their Apostle position.
In the past SGM leaders have been included in most all of the major decisions in every local church and have assigned (a)postles to oversee churches. Now they claim the churches are “separately constituted,” yet those local churches have signed membership agreements in the past and SGM wants them to sign membership agreements going forward that might give SGM leaders even more control over local churches.
This all sounds just plain nutty to me! If local leaders are signing up for this then they need their heads examined.
It will be interesting to see the new polity documents. However, it does seem like the unfolding events of the lawsuit would keep many people from wanting to sign on the dotted line. Interesting timing on the lawsuit. I can’t help wondering if that was an earthly plan, heavenly plan, or both :)
I’m a first-time commenter on SGMSurvivors, though I’ve been reading as much as I can the past few weeks, here and elsewhere, on the lawsuit against Sovereign Grace Ministries. I’ve not attended an SGM congregation, and so am still learning about all of its backstory. (Which makes me in some ways go through what a member of the jury might have to grapple with, and the questions I ask might find parallels among them.) But I have worked with various kinds of Christian churches and non-profits since the early 1970s, and absorbed enough principles of organizational systems along the way to see when important issues are raised. And what I’m reading in this official updated statement on the lawsuit, compared with SGM history, leaves me with some significant questions about SGM’s organizational infrastructures and their integration/integrity in relation to its member churches. Those are sure to be relevant to this case.
If I understand correctly, the “official” polity/organizational structure at SGM has shifted multiple times over the years and some kind of further polity clarification and revision is forthcoming shortly. All of that being the case, what is on paper doesn’t necessarily reflect accurately what is happening in real-world actions, so if I were investigating this further, I’d be looking at those closely for discrepancies — both historically and currently.
Meanwhile, it seems to me that SGM leaders are already seeking to set the stage for a partial defense that their churches are independent entities from the global/national SGM network, but they all just choose to do things together voluntarily. The statement stresses SGM as a national/global organization that is separate from affiliated local churches when they talk about their being “committed to integrity and faithfulness in pastoral care, as are the pastors of local congregations.” But the statement also notes there is a “broader common mission” that binds the network together.
However, if you develop resources in common, plant churches in common, train pastors in common, and serve in common — doesn’t that show you actually are a formal, “defacto” system, despite supposedly being independent entities?
And from all I have been reading on SGM, if a supra-entity (e.g., the SGM board of directors, SGM “apostles,” etc.) can “de-gift” a leader at the local level and either remove him or pressure him to be removed, doesn’t that demonstrate that these official SGM representatives exert at least a degree of control over the system?
If the SGM system/board only has the ability and responsibility to facilitate common activities, and perhaps to “advise,” but nothing much else, then why all the activity related to conflicts over whether various national and local leaders are/aren’t “fit for service” in the system, and the numerous instances of men being removed from national and local leadership roles?
How can you control some things, do all these ministry and training activities together within the broader common mission, and yet bear absolutely no responsibility if something goes wrong in the operational systems of the global organization and/or in the pastoral care standards of local affiliates — especially those pastors and leaders who have been trained in the SGM system and perhaps “certified” to serve in a local SGM affiliate church?
The lawsuit may expose the presence of actual organizational systems integrity (regardless of what is presented on paper) plus any deficits … and also deal with the questions other people who’ve lived through the alleged spiritual abuse at SGM have raised. But meanwhile, from my organizational development and futurist point of view, this statement from Sovereign Grace Ministries’ director appears to me to contain some significant doublespeak; there is “integrity” in systems only when there is the ability to plan, implement, evaluate, and revise the system and its standards for operation.
As one who assists church planters and other Kingdom entrepreneurs in their start-up projects, I am convinced that organizational issues ARE spiritual issues. Defective systems at any level can get regenerated like leaven through the whole network. So, I’m watching this lawsuit carefully, trying to make sense of this to gain constructive lessons for a wise, safe, and healthy Kingdom future.
Thanks to the courageous people who filed this lawsuit to shine light into the darkness, and to those researching and reporting on it …
Predictable, ‘politically safe’ reply & yes I’m certain that God will ‘guide and lead’ since he is the one who knows all things and reveals from the roof tops what we try to hide in a closet.
I like the book idea, though.. :)
Although unknowingly I’m sure, this is an audaciously haughty, arrogant and prideful (worldly) attempt to rescue themselves (SGM)…hiding behind “their” fortified city. No crying out to God. No confession “I Was Wrong”…No asking for forgiveness. No repentance. No baring oneself naked before God the creator of heaven and earth. How long will it take before they realize their wisdom is foolishness before God. It is exactly like the oil filter commercial where the mechanic suggests it would be wiser to pay a few dollars now to change your oil filter, rather than paying thousands of dollars later for a new engine. God will not be mocked any longer by this crowd. God is going to rip out their engine and replace it with a new one…theirs no longer works because it is ruined.
QE2 and Live Free (or die hard?),
A few more to go with those,
A chapter that articulates the concept that leaders inspire others to greatness.
Another chapter encouraging girls to become their own people (not a CG leader’s wife or wife or pastors wife or some other title that reflects someone else’s position and your lack of identity as a unique individual.
Relatedly, if you are going into detail about roles (rolls) you should be writing a baking book.
This quote was written at the last thread and bears repeating…..
It is a grave disservice
to the heart, soul, body, and spirit of a woman
when she is given the subtle message
that the truth of her own pain
is not as important
as the reputation of the ones who inflict it.
—Luna
Everyone is in ass-covering mode as predicted but just remember who was hurt here and who was silenced and who was told by the actions of others that they didn’t matter, that the paradigm in which they lived treated their violation as a lesser sin than to not protect the perp. If the perp was an alpha male, has the same Y chromosome as an alpha male, or has the potential to become an alpha male.
It will be interesting to see how people who have studied the law and have never tasted the kool aid handle this case. If any of them have taken a basic gender studies case, they may well recognize the similarities between the aforementioned SGM paradigm and the Handmaid’s Tale.
Debra, I love that quotation. I’m not the “Luna” who wrote it, but I could have.
To have the truth of your pain acknowledged is tremendously freeing. It is great, great kindness.
He heals the broken-hearted and binds up their wounds…
Bridget, I predict the SBC is going to soon have some of the same problems. Autonomy is screamed from the roof tops but there is a tiny little problem with that: We fund our seminaries and for the most part several are churning out little tyrants who want to “lord it over” congregations. They love Mahaney and DRiscoll types. They believe in “elder rule” whereas the typical SBC church over the last 100 years believes in the priesthood (in the real way) and congregational polity.
So, if we see a “pattern” of behavior in churches over time by these seminary trained leaders and we track it back to what they were taught in seminary what does that mean…..legally? I do wonder. Can we still scream autonomy when molesters are protected and victims advised not to call the authorities?
What??? SGM is accusing anyone who brings charges against them to be liars? What a shock. Don’t they think maybe they have done enough to hurt these girls? Guess not.
Can somebody tell me how in the world SGM has NOT received its notification of the lawsuit, yet has obtained a copies of it? How can the media and all of us know about the suit but SGM has not been served?
QE2
While you are writing your book maybe we can hold an SGM Survivors’ Conference. We can offer therapy sessions and sell your book at the book table.
I vote to hold the conference in Louisville.
Debra, well said and worth repeating:
“It will be interesting to see how people who have studied the law and have never tasted the kool aid handle this case.”
I was thinking that, too. Will this civil suit, if it makes it way to court, finally stir up the fear of God in SGM leadership?
Did I miss the group reconciliation AoR recommended? How many of you who spoke with AoR were ever contacted by someone in SGM or AoR to set up or discuss the potential of reconciliation after the report came out?
To Brad/futurist guy,
Welcome and thanks for sharing your thoughts here!
I may have been in the shower when AOR/SGM called, totally my fault. It’s coming though, they did not spent $400k just to
whitewash 30+ years of systematic problems, that would be nuts.
The common denominator of this press release and the SGM leadership is talking in spiritual language makes any act OK, and further protect the pastors reputation at all cost, minimize the impact of the truth of abuse coverup. This response does not indicate that the SGM organization is interested in dealing with the sin of pastors and will take no self examination, rather will respond only if forced to.
Any criticism or disagreement is attacked and those who are critical and assumed by the organization to not be truthful and only be out for themselves, which is rarely true. I stand with the victims and am praying for justice, not excuses and obfuscation.
Oh, I would totally go to a SGM Survivors Conference. Hehehe:)
Not in Louisville, though.
Fairfax…or Gaithersburg.
Really? Really??
Did anyone else read this and think that SGM needs to be careful what they are praying for!
I laughed out loud when I read the part about the SGM churches being separately constituted, if membership in SGM is a loose thing like belonging to the YMCA or a local gym.
I am seriously concerned for most, if not all, of you. Bitterness will destroy your soul. Has SGM done wrong? Yes. Has God called you all as individuals to devote your life and resources to hunting them down? Not likely.
Get a life. This website is a joke and you are a joke if you spend your days trolling around on it. You call them legalists and pharasees…perhaps you ought to start working on the log in your own eye while they work on their plank.
Don’t get me wrong. I haven’t “drunk the coolaid,” as you’ve put it. I am not a huge fan of SGM. But really. Get over it.
I’ve been on this website for a total of 5 minutes and I cannot see one thing to be encouraged by. Ya’ll have issues.
When I heard the Mefford interview I was struck by how malicious-sounding the distrust for authority sounded in it. I had never thought of it being used that way. Having been a homeschooler years ago and having heard the warnings of Fairfax county authorities trying to weed out homeschoolers by knocking on doors I wonder if that is how the mistrust of civil authorities made such inroads with so many? Meaning no disrespect to those who did have to fight the good fight to have homeschooling accepted, I’m wondering if that might have been the first taste of what has been used in such an evil way, in SGM, with normal regular homeschooling families.
I’m completely insulted by saying the charges are lies. They didn’t have to put that in their statement.
And this is the authority that is supposed to be trustworthy?
I don’t think so.
Defended said: Meaning no disrespect to those who did have to fight the good fight to have homeschooling accepted, I’m wondering if that might have been the first taste of what has been used in such an evil way, in SGM, with normal regular homeschooling families.
I have been influenced by the homeschool movement for over 20 years. This is precisely what is taught at conventions and through key people. If you are a member of HSLDA (Homeschool Legal Defense), you get e-mails of how evil the government is in intervening with homeschool families. They used to send out information to post on your wall of what to do if some government official comes to your door. This stuff is rampant. These are the same people who refuse to say “public schools” – – – they are “government schools”. The #1 message: fear the government: police, CPS, schools, counselors, etc
The ironies to this SGM debacle are too many to count really.
Their popularity soars a few years back due to Reformed friendly blogs (i.e. Challies blog). Book sales and music cd’s go up….promoting the SGM inc. mindset. The money machine gets-a-going.
Independent blogs like this one have exposed their corrupt ways. These blogs have continually been demeaned as having little or no say addressing problems. Real life testimonies where people have been harmed spending their whole lives living in SGM community have been swept under the rug. Kill the messenger not the message tactics. Just tell yourself they were bitter, and their comments are full of “sin.”
The pastors operated out of fear for future lawsuits with the accused predators. I heard they didn’t want to publicly report abuse for fear of defamation/slander lawsuits? Can this be verified?
The victims of sexual abuse sue them in court for their underhanded ways.
Now they play the card churches are really independent, when all of us know SGM corporate calls the shots (ahem the apostles).
Lies will be found out one way or another. They will be found culpable one way or another in an earthly court or a heavenly one. God will not be mocked. Their prayers will be answered.
Here’s one place my BS detector went off:
” we are beginning a careful legal review of each allegation”
…beginning? Nah, legal review was begun a long time ago. Like at CLC’s August 2011 meeting………
My prayers and support to all the victims and their families!
Tommy Hill stated “These biblical commands include fully respecting civil authority to help restrain evil and promote righteousness as Romans 13 instructs us.”
Hey Tommy…did it ever occur to you that only “respecting the civil authorities” is what brought about this law suit in the first place. Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe these innocent victims of abuse need help from these civil authorities? Did it ever occur to you that these victims needed their pastors and church leaders to step and assist with contacting these civil authorities?
Merely respecting civil authorities as you state does not cut it…pathetic, just pathetic!
Julie Anne Smith: I love what you say about the SGM Press Release at your blog today.
http://bgbcsurvivors.blogspot.com/2012/10/lets-discuss-sovereign-grace-ministries.html#.U
I wrote this in the previous thread, when we first began discussing the SGM response, but I think it belongs over here, too:
——————
Remnant said,
You know, if there’s ever anything that would make SGM look cultish, it would have to be this – this clear evidence of SGM leaders’ long history of being unchallenged, unquestioned, and completely and totally beyond real accountability to anyone. As Remnant points out, they clearly have no sense of how they appear to the outside world – the world that hasn’t been indoctrinated with “believe the best.” They obviously think they can just say whatever they want and it will be believed.
I guess this is what decades of insular thinking – along with CJ’s careful, crafty years of buying credibility with the likes of Al Mohler – will do to guys who answer to no one but themselves. It causes them to forget that although they try to control everything, truth is truth. They can’t alter or control the truth.
It’s weird to see how oblivious these guys actually are. Don’t they realize that their arrogant assumptions about the importance of spreading their own teachings via downloadable sound files is going to prove rather easily how centralized and similar so many of their churches have been? And that they can say all they want to about independent congregations and the whole stupid “family of churches” thing, but the clear reality is that SGM churches have always ultimately answered to SGM Corporate? All it is going to take to establish that is a quick look at how the de-giftings and staffing decisions were handled. There were no congregational votes or meetings to decide when a pastor would step down. There were no congregational committees or any voting procedures when certain twentysomething PC grads were installed as “senior” pastors. And if a congregation has no input into who its pastors are, then nobody can say the congregation is independent and not controlled by the
denomination’sfamily-of-churches’ headquarters.Again – facts are facts. Truth is truth. These guys’ statements may temporarily soothe their still-loyal, still-unquestioning members, although those numbers are dwindling. But they can’t control what people see when they look at objective reality. They can try. But they just look really culty in their efforts.
Toni posted this in the other thread:
It is a grave disservice
to the heart, soul, body, and spirit of a woman
when she is given the subtle message
that the truth of her own pain
is not as important
as the reputation of the ones who inflict it.
—Luna
Worth repeating again and again.
Thank you, Toni. I was a little worked up after talking with someone about the case. Sometimes Snark becomes my middle name. I hate abuse.
Canary # 18 — I can imagine how those named in the suit have not been served yet– the addresses were for their offices and homes in Maryland and Virginia, but many of the principles have relocated to Louisville. The suit gets filed, process servers would be assigned — all to addresses where they don’t live any more. I think it’s somewhat disingenuous for them to make an issue about not being served yet, because clearly they’ve read it on-line along with everyone else. And during her radio interview, Susan Burke offered to send it to them :)
Thanks for the warm welcome, Square Peg … good to be part of your “learning community” here …
Kris, I appreciate what you’re saying in comment #34 about [[ And that they can say all they want to about independent congregations and the whole stupid “family of churches” thing, but the clear reality is that SGM churches have always ultimately answered to SGM Corporate? All it is going to take to establish that is a quick look at how the de-giftings and staffing decisions were handled. There were no congregational votes or meetings to decide when a pastor would step down. There were no congregational committees or any voting procedures when certain twentysomething PC grads were installed as “senior” pastors. And if a congregation has no input into who its pastors are, then nobody can say the congregation is independent and not controlled by the denomination’s family-of-churches’ headquarters.]]
That’s basically what I was trying to get at in my earlier comment. Even as an outsider to SGM, I can see there seem to be some real disconnects in the official SGM updated response saying that “SGM churches are separately organized and constituted in their respective communities,” versus what appears to have gone on with positions of leadership and the many many changes therein.
If these were truly local decisions on staff, certainly there should be official meeting minutes and other documents that can confirm that as fact.
If these were actually local decisions with no SGM board/apostles influences, but there are NO official minutes to substantiate that as fact, well, that’s one kind of problem that I’ve seen used before as an indicator of corroded organizational infrastructures.
If there is written and verbal evidence given that contradicts the appearance of local autonomy from the global/national headquarters and its leaders, then that, too, has its implications about how the organizational polity worked in function THEN and not just according to what is being stated NOW.
For instance, my understanding is that non-profits are required to function according to their charter/constitution and by-laws, so if I were doing investigative research on the organizational structures, I’d be looking at all of those documents and their changes over time. (Which, actually, I had to do at one non-profit I worked for … look at 40+ years of trustee meeting minutes to determine if the current constitution and by-laws had been fully updated.)
So, just as 25+ years of history between SGM headquarters and affiliates cannot be “scrubbed” to remove anything, so also any gaps in historical records and documents cannot be miraculously filled in. At least as far as the documents, the written evidence is what it is and it will demonstrate by acts noted or by silent gaps the contours of the working relationships between SGM headquarters-board-apostles and local churches-pastors-congregations. The legal discovery process may bring forth a lot of other details and questions, and many outsiders like me will be watching …
Dylan,
You asked in #30:
“The pastors operated out of fear for future lawsuits with the accused predators. I heard they didn’t want to publicly report abuse for fear of defamation/slander lawsuits? Can this be verified?”
In one of our meetings with a few of the pastors from Fairfax I asked their Sr. Pastor this question: “Why don’t you warn families at risk when you have a perp in your midst?”
His reply: “Because that perp could grow up and sue us for defamation of character.”
Has Al Mohler chimed in on this one? I know that he was fast and loud with his defense of CJ in the past.
Or is there a more subtle set of changes taking place, such as pretending he problem does not exist, or perhaps
a quiet reduction in their scratching of each others backs?
The churches are not and never have been independent. What a joke. They all move the same pastors around. They all put pastors in place from the PC. They all have caregroups done in the same manner. They all use the same “jargon.” They all sell the same books. They all go to the same conferences. They all sit under the same teachings and tactics. They all sing the same worship songs.
I just sent this email through the SGM Plant and Build blog — per chance this did not cross their minds:
“I’m sure you guys already thought of this, but if the SGM churches are local, constituted entities, how come there are no records, minutes, or other evidence which would show how pastors are elected and installed locally rather than given to us from SGM HQ.
Pass me that joint. I want to take a hit too. You boys are in a world of hurt and your ass covering is going to dig the hole deeper. You think that wise?”
When the announcement was made to the Pittsburgh church that Mark Prater was going back to Philthadelphia (sorry, Stunned – CFC has ruined your city for me)both DH and CJ came for the announcement. CJ stood and proclaimed to us all, “Who is responsible for this decision? I am ultimately responsible for this decision.” Sounds like we were real autonomous, huh?
Jenn. :) Those boys are NOT from Philly. They’re soft burbanites. (DH is from Pittsburgh, isn’t he?)
You come out to Philly and I’ll show you a good time. Guaranteed. Rocky and I will redeem the place for ya.
S.E., I think it’s oh so easy to take a peak here and make those assumptions: they we are bitter, in danger of destroying our souls and not having lives. Oh contrare, we really began to have lives when we left and yes, some of us do struggle with bitterness, but I doubt our souls are in jeopardy; that does smack of Koolaid sippin’. It is because of this very site that so many find hope, not bitterness, and if you take the time (more than 5 min.) to listen to the lawyer’s interview with Janet Mefferd, you will note that it was this site and others that gave the victims the courage to realize they weren’t alone after so many years of silence and pain.
#45, I meant ‘take a PEEK’, not peak :)
Kris, as Brad alludes to in #38 (particularly where he quotes), your logic is freaking impeccable. I hope the plaintiffs’ legal beagles are taking notes here. Not trying to flatter you; it’s just true.
Wizer…
I agree. Here you see people grappling with what happened to them. They are working through emotions. Sorting out thoughts. Realizing they weren’t alone. Working through stages of grief to get to the other side. When you have been a part of something for decades, and you have friends and relationships, etc….then, when you come out of it…you have to be “deprogrammed”…so to speak. You are coming out of a brainwashing. It is painful to go through that. It is like a death. Here, people can work through bitterness and grapple with the hurt…to get to the other side.
That’s an intriguing piece of evidence about “apostolic input/oversight/control,” Jenn (#43).
Just curious about SGM churches/affiliates. Are there typically recordings of services and members’ meetings at these churches? Of course, since such an announcement as you mentioned was made in public, there’d presumably be scads of people who heard it. Either way, the “discovery process” is sure to turn up all kinds of important evidence and documentation like that, which shows the actual chains of command and influence in the systems …
[P.S. If you were the person who put together the SGM Crisis Timeline, many many thanks. That was an immense and amazing piece of work, and it really helped me start navigating my way through the maze of people and events!]
Services are recorded, but I think they are edited down to just have the messages themselves. Is this correct? (To anybody who knows.)