We’re still here
July 16, 2016 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
Many have asked….
Kris and I are still here, albeit not as engaged with the SGM (or whatever it calls itself today) mess. If we choose to do away with this little section of the innernet, I plan on archiving all posts and comments in a tidy (huge?) collection and will make it available.
Until that time comes, feel free to keep talking.
Guy
© 2016 – 2017, Kris. All rights reserved.
Kris
I can understand your no longer being as engaged. After all that was exposed and how so many both within and outside of SGM turned a blind eye to it or at least trivialized it one can wonder what else can be done exposure wise. All one can do is sit back and wait for God’s judgment whether this jusgment happens in this life or a future one.
Sadly, I believe God’s judgment will not only be on CJ et al but, on the pack of Big Dogs who have been defending him, throughout.
Shame on all of them!
Thanks Kris and Guy; you will always be included on my short list of spiritual heroes.
In some ways the Big Dogs are worse than C.J. Mahaney. I say this because it easy to not see your own sin but these Big Dogs should have easily been able to see Mahaney’s sin. A shame they chose not to.
In addition to all the ministry, friendship, comfort and support our family has received from Kris & Guy and so many others here, one clear and definitive service has been that the celebrity or famousness of those other esteemed national leaders has been exposed as a toxic mess, and that NO man should be celebrated as “above” or “more” than the rest of us who enjoy the Grace of God.
I’m sure that was never part of what was intended to be offered but I am thankful that there is no longer a pedestal of any kind in my heart or mind for any man, or human. Respect and honor should always be given but not “celebrity status”. I will carry this adjusted attitude for the rest of my life and I’m thankful for it.
Defended said, “NO man should be celebrated as “above” or “more” than the rest of us who enjoy the Grace of God.”
AMEN! (And hi, Defended!)
‘Pedestal-Free Pastors’…great description for the kind of pastors we have now, compared to the ones we at CLC.
If your pastor does not shy away from praise, you should stop praising them immediately. Better yet, find a church that encourages true humility, not the kind described in CJ. Mahaney’s mini-‘book’, of sermon compilations.
Many thanks, Kris and Guy.
I have been edified and blessed here, and learned so much and been challenged in my thinking and my heart attitudes. I am very grateful for all the posters here over the years; together you have shared so much wisdom.
My personal take on things for years has been that God was after more than just SGM, God was trying to say something to the Reformed big dogs with the exposures that have come forth. I can understand them- here you have Mahaney with dozens of churches, not just one church, and he says that we are no longer going to be Arminian, we are going to be Reformed, and voila, everybody starts reading Calvinist books, tens of thousands of obedient sheep. Yeah, it looks impressive if you don’t see the cult control and fear operating.
I kept thinking that as lies have been exposed and so much wrongdoing, they would finally admit something was wrong. I’ve been praying for years. Carl Trueman was on the original panel that decided CJ just had normal human sin and the blackmail was a moment of human anger, and he exonerated CJ. I don’t think Trueman knew the A’s had gotten legal advice and were told not to do it and it was not a brief flash of anger.
Finally this year, we had Trueman and his buddy Pruitt speaking to Together for the Gospel in as fair and merciful a manner as you could ask, that CJ should not be speaking. Did they get anywhere? No.
I know CCEF was confronted with the facts about Dave Harvey. Did it do any good? No, he was a featured speaker at the spring conference .
There are 66 books in the bible with topics to talk about. CJ chose to talk about Job and compare himself to Job suffering from his critics. Harvey chose to speak about suffering pastors, and how pastors suffer when people leave their church.
Really? How can people not see through this?
Up until this spring I kept hoping and praying and getting the sense that God was merciful and patient and forbearing with these national leaders. But ever since the two conferences, the way they ignored truth (Trueman is or was dean of the seminary Harvey went to) has left me thinking it’s all over in a way. I feel like the purpose of all the blogging has been accomplished, there is no more to say, and people have made their decision to go with the big names and kick the victims to the curb.
Anybody new who wants to read up on the subject can find everything they need to know online. If they want to escape SGM, the facts are everywhere. I will add that Todd Wilhelm’s “Thou Art The Man” blog (the man being Mahaney) is a fine resource if anybody ever reads this post looking for information. You don’t have to scroll through a long conversation with hundreds of posters but can get the more succinct version at his blog. He will probably keep it going even if this forum closes, and people can comment, so maybe we’ll see each other over there some day.
Anyway, I still check this site because I like everybody and look forward to meeting you in heaven some day. I have prayed for so many people who posted here, too many to list. But as far as thinking this site will bring about what many of us hoped for, I no longer expect that. Many leaders have hardened their hearts, shut their eyes, and chosen delusion.
I think it is possible God may judge America in our lifetimes. We could see nuclear bombs, plagues, natural disasters, economic collapse, any number of things. I want to spend the rest of my life in prayer and fellowship with ordinary decent Christians, get close to God, and be faithful in prayer. I think the “anointing”, for lack of a better word, is going to leave SGM if it hasn’t already, as well as the big dogs ministries. I think when God shakes, a lot of the crap built on sand will crumble. We can be sure that God is just.
Woe to those who make a little child stumble. Better to tie a cement brink around your neck and be thrown into the sea. Woe to all those who ignored the cry of the sexually abused people in SGM. God have mercy on your pathetic souls.
Thanks for your thoughts 5years.
I think we will see a greatly diminished SGC organization once CJ, Gary, Bob K. and others retire. here are really few others to carry the baton and extend their influence.
Brent posted an update on Morales conviction. According to his post some of the convictions were overturned on appeal:
http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/three-of-seven-guilty-verdicts-against-sex-abuser-nathaniel.html
When I found ( was led to) this site I read for hour after hour night after night. It was shocking to say the least, all this had been going on in my church? for years? I was told that XXX had decided to leave, not that he had been thrown out and then threatened if he talked. And I believed it. I thought I knew what to look for, I thought I had my family in a good place. how could I have been so blind? The more I looked, here and elsewhere, the deeper the corruption went. Oh not just on line I took off my “church glasses” and started looking at people and policy with the the same cold wary regard I once reserved for used car salesmen and people running for public office. Damm! but I had been a fool. I had been played by some very slick, very practiced shysters. Most of my close friends were just as shocked and angry as I was. Some few sadly just keep on playing the three monkeys ” See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” Many of you here were a great help to me in those dark nights. I cant thank you enough! I still lurk here now and then, just to see how my brothers and sisters are doing. Some I am pretty sure I could put a name to, others I have not a clue who you are. But no matter. Brother you are all the same. As for me and my house, I am still having having problems walking into a church building. I know God still has work for me to do yet, but I have no idea what or where. Some of my children were very much into the “clc life” worthy, plays, 10:31, csb, parking, set up crews etc. Now I think it would take a team of horses to drag them back in. very angry, very bitter. One was for a short time working for clc. when the last straw came last year he publicly and loudly called them out on it, threw the keys to the building at their feet, told them ( in a semi polite way) to go to hell, and walked out. I guess that is the modern shaking dust off your feet.
I hope folks are super honest on their new blog and with their new Senior Pastor. Honesty is the best way to make that church healthy.
I’m still here as well. Deep appreciation for Kris, Guy, Jim, Carole and so many on here.
CJ … “He is a self-made man and worships his creator”
I guess I thought CJ would see the error of his ways and repent and peace and harmony and justice would rule. I thought the other pastors I respected that went to Louisville would step away from him and stand up for righteousness. And holy justice would prevail.
But, after Together for the Gospel and CJ subsequently preaching on “protecting your pastor” because “they are keeping watch over your souls” when utter destruction occurred in his wake at CLC, screw it. Very unlikely I will trust a church again. And almost EVERYONE at CLC I have spoken to has said they same thing.
The children we homeschool and took parenting classes for and trained and sacrificed and purchased thousands of dollars worth of books for have denounced their faith because of his arrogance.
If some of us were not abused before, we are now. And talk about millstones…
“The children we homeschool and took parenting classes for and trained and sacrificed and purchased thousands of dollars worth of books for have denounced their faith because of his arrogance.”
I understand the frustration and sadness that we have all experienced….. But if we find that we got poor results from our SGM experience…. I would think that we share in the blame. God will hold CJ responsible, no doubt, but many of us drank the Kool Aid all at once when we should have been sipping it.
I’ve learned a few things in life that I believe are profound …
1). History repeats itself because the passions of man NEVER change. … From the fall of Adam to today, man’s passions are self serving. Whether it be in governments, work or, unfortunately, church, people will ALWAYS choose what is best for THEM. This is why it’s important to find a church where the Holy Spirit leads. He won’t disappoint. CJ and the rest have all fallen to the traps of the devil. They won’t change and repent. I learned that long ago.
2). The Eagles will never win a Super Bowl in my lifetime. I’m just convinced of it …
Sick with Worry, I agree with you. One of the things that surprised me was how I was overwhelmed by my own culpability back in 2011 when my eyes were opened to the truth. It was like I knew it all along but had chosen and actually made an effort to ignore it and then all of a sudden it was crystal clear.
I chose to worship those men. I chose to look down on those who weren’t part of SGM as spiritually inferior. I chose to, without love, hold accountable those struggling with sin. On and on. It was all under the guise of “taking my faith seriously”. After all, the pastors were so humble. How could you not admire them? Everyone here is so serious about their faith. We really are better. How many times did we arrogantly agree with Kenneth when he said, “Well, those folks don’t have the teaching we have” when referring to Christians outside SGM.
The self-justification and self-deception was rampant. It is amazing the number of people I have talked to who have had a similar revelation when they realized the truth. I would go as far as to say that, in my opinion, one sign that your blinders are really off is when you have a clear picture of your own culpability.
Obviously, that does not absolve the leadership but I agree that the problem is as much with those allowing themselves to be lead as with those doing the leading. That is why a few of us called for a “solemn assembly” back in 2011 but our requests were ignored.
Somewhereintime, I have been waiting for the Eagles to win the Super Bowl since 1975. As my kids grew up and became fans, I tried to explain but they had to learn the torment for themselves.
There is an article in the Washington Post today commenting on I Kissed Dating Goodbye. In case anyone is interested, please see the link below:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/07/27/as-a-young-evangelical-i-believed-a-bestselling-book-that-warned-me-to-stay-pure-until-marriage-i-still-have-a-stain-on-my-heart/?hpid=hp_rhp-more-top-stories_no-name%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Pete Berry said:
If nothing else you need to ask the question of how you could be and stay in such deception for a period of time. If not you just might fall into the same deception.
You mentioned what Kenneth Maresco use to say about having better teaching. Has Kenneth ever confessed doing anything wrong and contributing to this deception?
Steve240,
Kenneth was a disciple of Larry T. In that way, he differed from other CLC pastors. He was also more educated than most of the staff. He did not approve of the busting, pecking-order behavior among the leadership. I cannot remember ever seeing him participate in that and I know one case where he publicly disagreed with another pastor about it. He used to make quite a few references to ‘manliness’ so, fear of feminine dress and behavior was one thing he shared with CJ. He also got involved a little more than most in the process of finding mates for his sons. Ensuring that his sons were heterosexual and married as early as possible, seemed to be priorities for him.
After all was said and done, he was visibly grieved that CJ had such a bad attitude that CJ broke off relating to all the CLC pastors. For some reason it seemed to take him by surprise and, Kenneth was not a happy camper in his last months at CLC. That could also mean he did not agree with bringing on PJ Smythe. Who knows, he may have wanted the lead position himself?
All in all, Kenneth seemed to agree with much of the structure and teaching at CLC, and we never heard him repent personally, only in the vague ways that the pastoral team shared at a meeting where they admitted some things were not done correctly at CLC.
Persona
Thanks for the response. I also remember hearing Kenneth was one of the first persons to contact Larry after reading that C.J. Mahaney had blackmailed Larry.
It is sad that all of the CLC pastors gave a pretty sad and half hearted apology and little if any real confession and repentance for their involvement in how things were done wrongly. With that being the case it is really no surprise that things haven’t changed at CLC.
You stated “CJ broke off relating to al CLC pastors.” Was this what happened after the documents came out and CLC pastors were starting to hold CJ accountable or was this something before the documents?
Steve240 I understand that CJ broke off relations with them after he moved to Louisville which was before the docs were released, I believe.
Persona
The document release (which happened 7/2011) and CLC pastors starting to question Mahaney lead to Mahaney (picking up his toys) and relocating SGM headquarters to Louisville under the guise of moving to Louisvie supposedly saving SGM money. It was touted as “saving money” even though SGM already had a paid for office as part of the CLC building (SGM just had to pay their share of maintenance).
Steve240 Sorry but, I am beginning to loose track of events. I guess the docs surfaced and then CJ moved to KY. So, he may have been ashamed and embarrassed and did not feel the backing of the men he left behind. Who knows why he feels the way he does. But, he did seem to feel betrayed by Josh and the others. I think of it as lack of transparency for more than 30 years but, CJ only seemed to lack transparency to the flock. All the leadership and SGM staff knew full-well what he was made of and covered him well for decades.
Pete Berry- excellent post. We adults can’t blame shift, we chose to join in the arrogance.
I’ve posted this before, but thought I’d give it a repeat:
http://stevecrosby.org/spiritual-abuse/spiritual-abuse-recovery-2
snips: ” I have dealt with literally hundreds of people who have experienced spiritual abuse in unhealthy church environments. I am very sympathetic to their pain and have my own hair-curling horror stories I could tell of the things that have been done to me, my wife, and my children by “leaders” in the name of Jesus. I GET IT.
However, I’ve noticed a difference between those who are quickly restored to spiritual health, and those who often remain in reactionary woundedness for years or decades. Those who recover quickly admit that there was something broken or unwhole in themselves that was a “hook” for controllers and abusers to play on. They do not just blame the perpetrators of the injustice against them. Healthy, whole, functional, adults–especially fully resourced believers (2 Pet. 1:3)–are not easy to control, and less likely to be victims of spiritual abuse.
…….
People will allow themselves to be violated by controlling leaders in exchange for those leaders giving them a sense of false identity and status with something that has the appearance of success, notoriety, and superiority. By belonging to mighty apostle/prophet/teacher so-and-so’s “world changing,” “miracle producing,” “seventh-heaven,” “doctrinally pure,” “city-taking” “soul winning,” “open portal” “last-day revival,” “overcoming,” “man-child,” “Zadok priesthood,” “Joshua Generation,” of restored Davidic worshiper Ministries International, we can feel just a wee bit superior to others: We have a “name” that others do not.
A psychological swap is made: the leader gets sycophantic followers, and the followers get a sense of name, identity, and status from a person or an organization that should come from Christ alone. It’s all an unholy psychological transaction that can be dressed up in all kinds of great sounding Bible-lingo and proof texts.”
The entire essay is good. I hope people will click the link.
5yearsinPDI
That is good information. We have to see what it was about us that lead us to this. If we don’t then we might fall into the same trap again. I imagine this explains why so many people were so u non questioning at CLC and SGM.
So I was cleaning out a closet and behind a box was a cassette tape remember those? Hmm wonder what could be on here?
The label says Pastoral Qualifications by ( wait for it) C J Mahaney
I showed it to my children who just burst out laughing.
One said ” I guess I shouldn’t laugh, but the irony is just sickening ”
Yep, I can’t decide if I should toss it , or listen and take notes, Not sure if I can do that without punching a wall or something.
That is I’d I still have a tape player
:)
Battered but unbroken
I bet that would be nauseating listen to C.J. Mahaney teach on pastoral qualifications. I felt that way when Mahaney talked on the priority of gospel unity:
https://sgmanalysis.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/c-j-mahaney-teaches-on-the-priority-of-gospel-unity-a-priority-for-only-for-others-but-not-c-j-mahaney/
I would be curious to hear what Mahaney talks about children of leaders. Did the sin of a leader’s child disqualify a leader? If so what he say doesabout pot smoking or the recent DUI that Chad Mahaney was recently charged with?
The database says CLC preached the message that Battered found at CLC on 2/18/2001, in case anyone is curious.
Thanks “battered but unbroken” and Todd Wilhelm for reminding us of Chad Mahaney’s sins. How about the Mahaney girls? Anything on them?
Persona,
CJ and the old pastors became unhappy with Josh Harris when he began investigating the stories of victims by inviting them to his house in December and January (because they couldn’t all fit in one meeting). They believed he was entertaining gossip by seeking to care for victims who were giving the safety of speaking in front of other witnesses instead of behind closed doors in offices.
Josh made apologies to the congregation around May for abusive practices at CLC. They were furious…primarily because the abuse all occurred under their watch.
The documents came out end of June/early July.
The family meeting happened where CJ apologized and was escorted out. Josh admitted he was aggravated. He allowed people to speak before an open mic in the presence of witnesses…which WAS THE ONLY SAFE WAY THEY COULD EVER SPEAK.
SGM blew up that week and Josh resigned from the board.
CJ and family went on vacation and pondered their future and never returned after the first family meeting.
Just saying…thanks for the review.
I agree with your assessment about CJ becoming offended that Josh allowed the members to share grievances at his home. I didn’t attend any of those meetings since they were tightly controlled and invitation only, as usual at CLC. It also seemed to me that the Pastors may have mainly trying to find out who had possible cause to sue the church down the road. But, I hope the pastors cared more for those members than that.
I think Kenneth made the mistake of believing CJ when he said he had repented and was willing to stick around. I remember Josh telling the congregation that he thought CJ would agree to work things out.
I also heard from someone who had contact with CJ during the first weeks he was on his leave of absence, that he and his son-in-laws were none too happy with the Family Meetings with open mics, etc. But, we had one foot out the door by then.
All those events are really beginning to fade now that we have built a whole new life. I guess that’s a good thing. We all did our best to scold those that needed scolding and warn those who needed warning and now they are all responsible for what they do with it.
I attended all three meetings at Josh’s house – took extensive notes. BTW the invitation to attend was broadcast widely so they were not “invitation only”.
Penny said “How about the Mahaney girls? Anything on them?”…. Seriously? As far as I can tell, SGM’s hypocrisy was that they produced only average kids as a whole. The sarcastic side of me would think that with all their so-called perfect teaching in theology that they would’ve produced super Godly kids!! It is a stretch to say that they produced worse than average kids. CJ had what…. Four kids? One of them screwed up and CJ applied a different standard to his own family…. Fair game. I would think we are lowering ourselves to their level of sin sniffing if we go after his daughters. Haven’t we learned anything?? They just seem like they are living out their lives. However odd we may think it is.
This is an old post about the Mahaney girls but still quire applicable to them:
https://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2008/08/13/the-mahaney-ladies-and-their-truman-show/
Though I haven’t read their blog for a while.
I drive past Sovereign Grace Church in Fairfax at least once a week and I noticed the other day they’d changed their name to Redeeming Grace Church. Anyone know anything about this?
Hoi, in regard to the meetings at Joshua’s house, it is true that it was broadly announced that they were to happen. But, we were also told at the time that only so many folks could fit into his house. The meeting size was limited so not everyone who wanted to attend could actually attend. The result was, there were a lot of folks that were not allowed to attend. To me, that is a definition of ‘invitation only.’ even though they announced the events were happening.
Reader
You can read all about the name change here:
https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2016/08/04/sinfully-craving-a-new-church-name-sovereign-grace-fairfax-becomes-redeeming-grace-church/
In summary I think SGC Fairfax changed its name since it is no longer part of SGM and perhaps wanted to get away from that association.
Ha – speaking of ex (and current?) SGM/SGC churches called “Redeeming Grace…” I see Steve Shank spoke at Redeeming Grace Church in Franklin, TN on July 31, 2016. I don’t know the history of this church, if it is still SGC or what, but it has other pastors who went through the SGC Pastor’s so-called College. Just fyi…
http://rgcnashville.com/sermons
OutThere
Thanks for sharing the information. Interesting Shank is speaking there but I seem to recall him moving to the Nashville area so make sense.
On the link you provided there is a link you can click on to learn the history of the church. It was a plant from SGM Knoxville TN. Also, if you look on the SGM website they show Redeeming Grace being an SGM Church.
I recall we discussed this church “plant” on here a while back. It was pointed out that this was a typical SGM plant where they place churches in relatively affluent areas and where there typically is already a number of healthy churches (not saying SGM churches are typically “health”). SGM typically does this vs. plant churches in poorer areas and/or in areas that are need of churches.
OutThere
Thanks for sharing the information. Interesting Shank is speaking there but I seem to recall him moving to the Nashville area so make sense.
On the link you provided there is a link you can click on to learn the history of the church. It was a plant from SGM Knoxville TN. Also, if you look on the SGM website they show Redeeming Grace being an SGM Church.
I recall we discussed this church “plant” on here a while back. It was pointed out that this was a typical SGM plant where they place churches in relatively affluent areas and where there typically is already a number of healthy churches (not saying SGM churches are typically “health”). SGM typically does this vs. plant churches in poorer areas and/or in areas that are need of churches.
I just ‘found’ the latest post today, don’t know how I missed it before now. It’s good to see many of the old faithfuls commenting. I haven’t attended a church for nearly 5 years, but have been in fellowship with other believers. I agree with 5yrs comment… “I want to spend the rest of my life in prayer and fellowship with ordinary decent Christians, get close to God, and be faithful in prayer.” And I’ll probably check in here almost every day.
Thanks, Kris and Guy.
Interesting article about abuse and church. http://heidelblog.net/2016/08/on-disciplining-abusers-and-protecting-the-sheep/#st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/0MIQnC7JBi
Author is a Presbyterian pastor and professor at Westminster. Wish sgm followed the instruction.
Thank you, Kris and Guy, for maintaining the blog and keeping it going. These days, I only check in once a month or so. It has become fairly CLC-centered, which is fine, but doesn’t necessarily apply to me. But the information contained in the zillions of posts here is still important – for though many have put their SGM past in perspective and have moved on, there are those who are just now beginning to heal.
I remember a friend whose tale of spiritual abuse under the guise of marriage counseling is gut-wrenching. Even recently, she still thought of her actions as being ‘under the protection of spiritual covering.’
A quick list of things of some of the horrible things she was told:
-You can’t tell anyone about your husband’s abusive behavior because that dishonors him.
-You can’t go to a different ‘care group’ than your husband.
-You can’t tell anyone that he has left you and abandoned you financially because it would dishonor him.
-Since you have involved secular authorities, we cannot help you, because you are now under law, not under grace, and no longer under our covering.
-What could you have done to keep your husband from becoming so angry? What are your sins that caused his abusive behavior?
-We can’t help you financially unless you take a ‘regular’ job and stop cleaning houses (which allowed a higher hourly amount and she didn’t have to put 4 kids in financially prohibitive childcare) because we don’t fund people’s businesses.
At one point, they sent a letter to either our home group or the entire church, I’m not sure which, cautioning us to not listen to either the husband or the wife. (I wish I still had that letter — I’d love to know if she could sue for defamation of character, etc.) She didn’t know about that letter till I told her, some fifteen years later.
One night, she ran from an abusive situation, in her nightgown, barely clothed, and drove to her homegroup leader’s house with a 6-year-old child in tow, for help and refuge. She received none, for the leader was under their control.
She is remarkably forgiving, and her faith has increased through the trial, but that doesn’t make what they did any less wrong.
As sad and wrong and incomprehensible that this happened to even one person, it’s stunning to realize that this horror was perpetuated upon numerous families. Bad enough that this happened to adults — but child after child after child was damaged and marginalized by the arrogant actions of so-called leaders who had no education or ability to provide marriage counseling.
The millstone is around their necks. But the grace of God is available to all of us, and I hope that before it’s all over and done with, they will repent and make some kind of move to apologize to those they damaged.
Thanks to all who have posted here through the years, and to those who continue to write such clear and thoughtful messages. What you have contributed is important.
–
NIckname
What you shared really wouldn’t surprise me. I remember the discussions about a wife in VA Beach area whose husband was doing some type of domestic violence to her. The leaders of that SGM Church threatened this wife with church discipline if she left her abusive husband.
At least in that case there were some couples that took this poor woman’s side who sadly also came under attack by church leaders. Who were these couples to question leadership? Just unreal.
I wonder if any of these leaders ever truly go to God in prayer asking Him to reveal their sins or even ask God if their actions are pleasing to Him. Based on these actions it appears very rarely.
Steve 240,
Here’s a link to Esther’s Story from “The Wayback Machine”
https://web.archive.org/web/20090129113953/http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/15/from-esther-in-chesapeake/
I’ve heard that that church (Chesapeake) has changed. Maybe someone can confirm this.
N.S.L.B.
Interesting announcement and typical SGM. Pull a pastor from a recent church plant to Philly to aid and abed the corruption there. https://ne.gracecityphilly.com/pastoral-transition-announcement/
The people at McConnell’s church probably don’t realize this has likely been in the works for months and they gave likely gone all out to hide it from the church. Prater and Harvey hid it from the local board leadership when he knew For about a year they were taking Prater out (and at the expense of) the Pittsburgh church.
Either they are covering up another scandal or preparing to move Jarrod to SGM FT, maybe to replace Mark.
Philadelphia’s ills made CLC look healthy, it’s just that Harvey did a better job concealing it… until he didn’t.
Jenn, I’m not saying there might be a cover-up or more than one, here. And, you are probably pretty good at sniffing out corruption. But, do you think they just can’t afford such a big staff in Pittsburgh? SGC Church staffs are huge compared to other congregations. And, the SGC tsunami as well as the recession, did hit some churches hard.
So, I wonder what’s up with the one (and only) pastor at Covenant Community Church in West Philly. Maybe they’re growing and he needs help.