Josh Harris Says He’s Not a Christian
July 27, 2019 in Sovereign Grace Ministries
Yesterday on Instagram, Josh Harris shared the following:
My heart is full of gratitude. I wish you could see all the messages people sent me after the announcement of my divorce. They are expressions of love though they are saddened or even strongly disapprove of the decision.
I am learning that no group has the market cornered on grace. This week I’ve received grace from Christians, atheists, evangelicals, exvangelicals, straight people, LGBTQ people, and everyone in-between. Of course there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people. While not always pleasant, I know they are seeking to love me. (There have also been spiteful, hateful comments that angered and hurt me.)
The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.
Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance. There’s beauty in that sentiment regardless of your view of God. I have lived in repentance for the past several years—repenting of my self-righteousness, my fear-based approach to life, the teaching of my books, my views of women in the church, and my approach to parenting to name a few. But I specifically want to add to this list now: to the LGBTQ+ community, I want to say that I am sorry for the views that I taught in my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality. I regret standing against marriage equality, for not affirming you and your place in the church, and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive me.
To my Christians friends, I am grateful for your prayers. Don’t take it personally if I don’t immediately return calls. I can’t join in your mourning. I don’t view this moment negatively. I feel very much alive, and awake, and surprisingly hopeful. I believe with my sister Julian that, “All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.”
Covenant Life Church, where Josh was senior pastor for several years, sent its members the following email late last night:
Dear Covenant Life family,
This week our former Lead Pastor, Josh Harris, shared some significant news. First, he and his wife Shannon announced that they’re separated. Then in a follow up post, he said “by all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian.”
These updates are hard to hear. We love Josh and Shannon. For most of us, Josh isn’t just some distant public figure. He’s a beloved former pastor and friend. So this news isn’t just a lot to process theoretically. It hits home personally.
How do we process the news that someone who was a spiritual leader in our community, who taught us God’s Word, who ministered to us, no longer considers himself a follower of Christ?
Today, after I got the news, I read through Paul’s first letter to Timothy and found it very grounding. Several times Paul mentions former Christian leaders “swerving from,” “wandering from,” or “making shipwreck” of their faith. So while this is sad and confusing, it isn’t new. Christian leaders occasionally veered from faith at the very beginning. Paul says some had gone off course theologically. Others behaved in ways that violated Christian conscience. For others, it was greed. In every case, Paul’s hope was for redemption and restoration. That these leaders would develop “love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.” (1 Tim 1:5) That should be our hope and prayer for Josh as well.
Paul’s primary instruction for us when leaders swerve from faith is that we make it an opportunity for greater resolve in our own faith, not less. Seeing leaders who taught us the gospel veer from it should deepen our commitment to “guard the good deposit” entrusted to us. And “pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.” (1 Tim 6:11)
So, Covenant Life, pray for our friend Josh. Pray with sincere hope for a redemptive end. And ask the God of all grace and power for fresh resolve in your own fight of faith. “Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called.” (1 Tim 6:12)
In Love,
Kevin
P.S. – If you’re having particular trouble processing this, any of the pastors would be glad to talk with you. If you’re specifically wrestling with how to process teaching you heard from Josh, you may find this video from John Piper helpful.
I realize my opinions don’t carry any particular weight, but still. I have all sorts of thoughts on these developments.
I actually really like CLC’s email. And…it just goes to show, churches would do well to follow scriptural guidelines for elders. It’s generally not a good idea to hand-pick a very young man and place a ton of responsibility on his shoulders.
Furthermore (and probably most importantly), we need to be praying for Josh. As an outsider who has observed him from afar over the years, he strikes me as someone who has always been eager for approval, first from his father and then from his mentor. Unfortunately, in the land of CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace churches, that compliance and desire to please were misconstrued as “humility.” Josh’s bosses thought his submission to their authority made him more godly.
And yes, it can be a good quality, to want to please. When SGM’s problems came to light, Josh seemed much nicer than many other leaders in how he responded.
At the same time, though, put a person like that in an open-ended academic environment, and it’s highly likely he will end up absorbing the beliefs and values of his professors and fellow students, particularly if he has reason to question his original beliefs, or if his original beliefs were built on a shaky academic foundation. Factor in our sick culture today and the additional peer pressure to disavow any non-woke views, and honestly, I’m not surprised at all to read Josh’s latest statement.
The good news is, if the Holy Spirit has been at work in Josh’s life to regenerate him at some point – back when he was still a professing believer – then the Holy Spirit is still at work, and eventually, Josh will come back around. As I said, join me in praying for him and Shannon.
© 2019, Kris. All rights reserved.
Thoughtful:
Very well said.
Even in this the freedom of choice plays a role in the final outcome.
AKS: Very much so, am happily married to a guy far, far removed from SGM and fundamentalism. We get along well. And I often thank God for not giving me what I thought I wanted. ;)
Yes, I did, huge fan of Lewis, Tolkien, Chesterton, and the like. Love all of Lewis, but I have a soft spot for Narnia – almost ended my post with, “I’d sooner be eaten by you than fed by anyone else.”
If you’re a Inklings fan you should check out https://rabbitroom.com –it is one of my favorite places in the interwebs.
AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN
Welcome thoughtful.
I read “The Boy Who was Raised as a Dog” a couple months ago. I immediately bought three copies for people I know working with traumatized children. I wish I had read it many years ago. We Christians in churches tend to want fast results with people, and we want them with our own kids, but often years of quiet gentleness and patience and a kind listening ear are needed.
I really can’t wait to read everyone’s comments. Kris, your opening is compassionate, kind & reasonable. Thank you.
Does everyone know about/love Babylon Bee and their satire? Forgive us in advance!
Defender & I can’t resist. We aren’t usually as kind as our Moderators. ;)
https://babylonbee.com/news/christians-demand-reparations-from-joshua-harris-for-all-the-hot-dates-they-missed-out-on
Thoughtful, glad God led you to Mr. Thoughtful! ;-)
Thanks for the rabbit room link!
CLC was the flagship of a heavily documented abusive religious cult that strapped on some form of Calvinism to apparently legitimize their history of abuse of authority and accountability. At the thirty year mark, people were so ill in their souls that many Washington D.C. local area pastors could not help these families when they awoke to the damage they had experienced and sought outside assistance.
Thank you, 5years!
Isn’t it fantastic? I immediately read Perry’s next book which was, I thought, equally as good. I wish I’d read them years ago too.
I want fast results too, I told my counselor that I want a magic wand so I can “fix” things. But if God wanted us to be perfect he would have made us robots. There must be something to this beautiful mess of humanity. Also I’m learning to be patient, to rest in the fact that God is outside of time and he is patient.
I love what you said about the importance of quiet gentleness and patience and a kind listening ear—I’m not always good at doing that for myself and for others, but I’m learning to be patient with my impatience :)
Judgement? Here? No way.
The beauty of varying colors & hues of a beautiful tapestry are here as God (I believe) has added here.
The theology of what, in the name of God has deceived BD that he possesses superiority is fascinating. Stunned, you and Kris and you heartfelt affection or adoration of God’s Word are fabulous. I winced a little at M Ferris’ letter and the tough assessment – especially if true – that JH never knew Christ. How awful. Yet, I can’t help but feel great sorrow for the sincere followers of Christ at SGM who listened to or tried to heed Josh’s preaching. Where is the apology for that? Did I miss it? Feels like yet another betrayal, to me.
I didn’t know about a documentary so I searched YouTube; I saw a Ted talk where he recalls praying, that God would let him “write a book that will change the world” …. sadly so ambitious, if not self-focused as a boy! His public pronouncements continue which really leave me stumped. And I join many in praying for Josh, and this family.
Thanks for the encouragement, Defended. <3 Made me want to read my bible.
"…encourage one another daily, as long as it is called "Today," so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness." Today, you have been my encouragement.
I wish I had watched Josh Harris’ TEDx talk sooner. If I had, nothing of the last couple of weeks would have been surprising at all. In it he explains the changes in his thinking and tips his hand as to his future. My favorite part? I believe his references to “business” are references to SGM.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DD2kV4ngi7J4&ved=2ahUKEwi-vcbcgd_jAhUJyFkKHevVANQQwqsBMAB6BAgKEAU&usg=AOvVaw0rZhwHg98HBhXXW6P3VRM2
The TEDx talk, the documentary, the website – it’s all the new JH brand. More drama to come, no doubt, because that’s what keeps us interested. The worst thing would be for him to lose the interest of his adoring fans, or his skeptics, or his detractors, or his enemies. We all feed his need for attention.
Defened days:
The theology of what, in the name of God has deceived BD that he possesses superiority is fascinating.
Not only is Defended “stumped” but a whole lot of people, that sat under SGM and its influence.
As the children sat and wondered in the wilderness for a generation, so have many in this movment.
There is a book written by David Hunt.
“What love is this”, for it a good read.
13¶Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14¶Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The accountability of those who “Teach men” is a fearful thing before the Almighty of Heven and Earth.
As Jesus exsposed, the religious leaders, that put burdens upon men, contrary the the comments of God.
So the Almighty has exsposed leaders and man made traditions, that have put burdens on men in our day, that keep us for walking in the light and freedom, that in Christ is so available to those who believe.
I ponder, that when Paul was knocked of his horse that day. Jesus to him” Paul. Paul, why art thou persecuting me?
We know Paul’s testimony how he harmed, killed, and thrown in to prison, those that believed in Jesus and had His testimony.
So Paul came out of a “religion” a type of “theology ” to spend the rest of his life.serving the God of his Fathers, the Almighty, in Jesus Christ.
Has Josh now walking away from Our Lord Jesus, the same Lord Jesus that revealed Him self to Paul. The same Lord Jesus. That has and will speak to the 7 Churches in Revelation, and bring judgements to a unrepentant mankind?
Josh now needs to concider the followong.
What accountability will he now have before the Most High, in this life, and the next life?
How many lifes have been, brought to Christ?
How many life’s may turned away from Christ?
The very system it self now is under judgment, not only from men, but God Himself.
The Almighty watches over His Word, and will not allow the commands and traditions men then, or today to nullify His Commandments.
The Judge of time, In the Hands of the Most High will test every work of men, on His Rock or on the sand.
Yes God is a God of love, the Cross. Is His testimony before the world and all of mankind.
But God also declares what He IS, and His Kingdom IS, and How His prospective IS.
So let’s consider the writers of Ecclesiastes Fear God and keep His Commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
So after saying all this, Joshua, your very name is rooted in Joshua of the Old Testament which is a offshoot of Yeshua which means SALVATION.
As you read the book of Revelation you will notice at certain judgments as they are transpiring there is a quote from the Holy Spirit that says “and yet they repented not of their sin” so even there is, I believe the Almighty has given the opportunity to repent in the mist of judgement…… please come back my dear brother to the ONE who Died for you.
Luke, I saw where Josh had a TEDx Talk the other day but didn’t have the time to listen to it. I just did.
It actually told me a lot. His fear of being wrong all his life. I get that knowing the way he was raised and the culture he was in. And then of all the churches he could have chosen to intern, he chooses CLC and C.J. Mahaney and the sick SGM system. Wow!
He’s either truly found freedom and is sincerely searching, or he’s brilliant enough to repackage himself and come out above all of this looking even better than he did when he sat across from Ben Affleck.
It really did shed a lot of light on things for me. I kept hearing him say that change meant leaving relationships and that of course made me think of Shannon, which made me even sadder for her in all this.
He looks happy and excited. Probably a lot like the prodigal when he headed out into the world with all his dad’s money.
Ben Affleck?
You know, we all fear “being wrong,” but the magnitude of being wrong in a religious culture like Josh was in had to be over the top. I can’t even imagine the degree of fear that he must have had, and for so long.
There’s a real lesson for parents and the church in all this. I hope they (we) are all listening and taking notes. It’s hard to get the balance right.
I’m still not letting Josh off the hook. I want to believe that Josh is a prodigal at this point. He was a boy still wet behind the ears, thrown into a role he wasn’t prepared for. Regardless, God’s word does not return void, even if Josh was only regurgitating everything he said in the past.
I also think his dad was pushing him, how many kids get down on their knees in their living room asking God to help them write a book that will change the world. Can you imagine having Gregg Harris as a father?
Cee- thanks, I didn’t know he had written another book and I will get a copy. I have to read around the parts referring to our evolution, mentally substituting God’s perfect design of the brain. Did you know his young first wife was murdered one night out of nowhere at their college? I can understand why he decided to make trauma his field of study.
re Josh, I keep coming back to what seemed obvious to my husband and I, which is that CJ was a master at seducing young men. I don’t mean erotically- CJ appeared to be 100% straight with his own wife- but there was clearly something going on that was sucking in weak guys who wanted a strong father figure. We saw it in operation and it was creepy.
There is a normal non perverted desire to have close friends of the same gender, to have mentors and older men and women in our lives especially when we are young Christians. I don’t really know how to describe what we saw because SGM would say that the spirit operating there was healthy and good and biblical. But it wasn’t, it was a seductive counterfeit and CJ was adept at sucking in the adoring young guys. It wasn’t gay exactly, but it seemed sort of gay. I wish I could articulate it better. And Josh was CJs fan boy, with his own crowd of fan boys under him.
I can only hope and pray that in the years to come they all meet the real Jesus, and the confusion and perversions of the past are sorted out.
The tragedy of apostasy
https://thecripplegate.com/the-tragedy-of-apostasy-refresher/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheCripplegate+%28The+Cripplegate%29
Well, I’ll go out on a limb here and say that even though C.J. was married and boast of his sex life with Carolyn, something always felt “icky” to me.
Lord, forgive me if I’m wrong…maybe it was just his narcissism and the boys were his “narcissistic supply” but it sure felt “icky.”
Whatever it was, it wasn’t healthy.
Kris, we all have the storms, we all experience the fire, —our foundation, and our stuff tested. It is not fun. The scriptures talk about these things. Reminding kind folk about these things would be a great help. For over ten years we have been talking about victims. Now we may be approaching a season of unfortunate causalities. Our approach must be different because the risk of folks succumbing loss and walking away has become ever so much greater.
Lol…listen to the TEDx talk, Stunned. ;-) It’s short.
SenecaG- very powerful essay, thank you for the link.
AKS, I’d say “icky” is a fitting adjective.
KS, I just don’t know if I have the stomach for it. I was about to wink, but then realized I mean it. Now I’ll wink. ;)
July 31, 2019
The tragedy of apostasy
https://thecripplegate.com/the-tragedy-of-apostasy-refresher/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheCripplegate+%28The+Cripplegate%29
Reply
Quote from above posted artical.
“We’ve learned that apostasy is going to be normal in churches where sanctification and transparent biblical community are emphasized.
Apostates apostacize because they are not Christians (1 John 2:19). They are of the flesh, and, therefore, spiritually dead (Rom 8:6-7). Since they do not have the Holy Spirit, they cannot experience one of his most miraculous and powerful miracles: sanctification.
Though apostates associate visibly with the community of the Spirit, they cannot do so spiritually by being conformed into the image of Christ. It may appear that they are externally, but they are not experiencing sanctification because they have never experienced salvation.
tares wheat
This means that those who are unregenerate will eventually be exposed in a local church which rightly emphasizes progressive maturation in Christlikeness. The flesh simply cannot last in an obedient church where the word is exposited, sin and repentance is talked about, the cross held high, the one anothers are practiced, humility is emphasized, and members are necessarily getting into each other’s lives in a Hebrews 3:12-14 kind of way. In such a church, the flesh, if not surrendered in salvation, will have nowhere to go, which means apostates will be exposed.
So, in some sense, a local church should be concerned if they never see apostasy. Scripture teaches that it’s going to happen. Tares accompany wheat. So, if apostasy never happens, a church may want to examine whether or not their ministry is accommodating tares.”
So (IF) this is a true statement of fact…..where was the decernment of the elect…….
For in this lens or theological view one cannot be deceived because you are the elect, as cj has testified in public he cannot be deceived…….early 90s
Something has to give here…… either man’s theology is correct, or God’s Word is correct….
1¶And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3¶And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4¶And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9¶Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15¶When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23¶Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26¶Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29¶Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32¶Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36¶But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45¶Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth
FiveYearsin PDI,
>>>To be fair, my husband pointed out that in the same way we will have indwelling sin all our life, but SGM weaponized that doctrine to gain control, not everybody into ESS has weaponized ESS doctrine to gain control the way BD has. Hub agrees it is wrong teaching, but assumes not all of the ESS teachers are control freaks. <<<
The ESS doctrine is difficult to understand and I suspect the vast majority of laity regardless of church affiliation have no idea what it means or how to recognize it. I've been researching ESS for the last 4 years and had to slog through deep theological discussions using a dictionary to get the meaning of words like "ontological" and "immanent" and how is essence different than role, etc.
Brent is the only person I could find online discussing ESS as it relates to church hierarchy. Bruce Ware may have written about it in one of his books but I haven't read everything he's written so far. It stands to reason that the issue of ESS as a metaphor for church leadership has not been on the front burner of many theologians and pastors' minds because nearly all Christian denominations are NOT based on a authoritative apostalic leadership model nor do most even recognize apostles as necessary so that particular application of ESS is not relevant to them. So that leaves SGM as the main, if not sole, denomination that based their leadership structure on what I, and others, consider to be a semi-Arian heresy.
ESS is not Brent's problem. ESS is a fertile medium and a means to validate a belief in the control of those in subordination to the "gifted". If you can claim that it is a central, indisputable doctrine that Jesus is eternally subordinated to the Father, you can apply it as a metaphor to every relationship within the church in a hierarchy with apostles at the top and various layers of leadership downward ending with women and children being on the bottom of the totem pole. Brent's problem is that he is a narcissist and ESS nicely dovetailed with his narcissism. When Purswell, Harvey and Mahaney began moving SGM away from an authoritative apostle model, BD had a meltdown and continues to have them because without ESS, he is deprived of control and the authority to always be right (the son must obey!). Unlike you I was in a SGM church during Brent's tenure as a regional leader and I have interacted with him on several occasions.He wielded his power as an apostle in ungracious ways. CJ never visited our church so Brent was the face of SGM leadership for us but I don't believe he was the only narcissist amongst the SGM leadership.
I disagree with your husband that not all ESS teachers are control freaks. The primary issue of ESS is how it has been applied, for the past 20+ years, as a metaphor for relationships between men and women with women getting the short end of the stick. Carolyn Mahaney including a Wayne Grudem ESS quote in her book "Feminine Appeal" and female speakers and bible study authors deemed appropriate for consumption have predominantly been ESS based complementarians although I suspect most women in SG churches have no clue what ESS is or how to recognize it. What these ESS complementarian women are teaching is that God's plan is that male and female relationships reflect the relationship of the Trinity, i.e. God is the leader, the one who initiates and has authority. Jesus, as the eternally subordinated son, is the responder who surrenders and submits. Men are the leaders who initiate and have authority, women are to be responsive and submissive…eternally. Churches who have applied ESS complementarianism to their orthopraxy deny women access to ministry leadership positions and the diaconate under the premise that leadership and authority to use that leadership is reserved for men and it is incongruent with God's design that a woman have an authoritative leadership position. Not all current SG churches adhere to an ESS-based complementarianism but enough still do.
Processing the insights here –Defended! Jim! (Jim, who was light in the darkness for us)
Kris, thankyou for this site which has enabled heart-felt responses to sift through the layers
and layers and layers of all Josh is declaring. We continue to pray….
I am struck with Shannons heart-tearing loss… Her husband,a man who, while navigating his
own groundings, didnot cling to his wife; nor have the inclination to fight for her,for his marriage. I know, and so can only imagine all Shannon endured as an SGM pastors wife, surrounded by CJ, his wife and The Law. As Joshua seemingly blithely declares where he now stands (on sinking sand), he has chosen to forge his own new path, apart from his wife and teenage children. Meanwhile,”deconstructing” from Christianity, leaving Jesus, and “specifically” making groveling apologies to the LGBQT community. Josh has brought them all, wife and children,into the spotlight while he “deconstructs”…Shannon expressing depths of sadness in song as she now navigates in her awakening and brokenness……
Jesus binds up the wounds of the broken-hearted,bringing depths of healing.. We pray…
Just a quick question: did I miss that this was Josh’s decision? Upon hearing it, I couldn’t tell whose choice it was, or it could have been mutual, I suppose, too. Is it possible that this was the wife’s choice, and Josh, knowing that she could be ridiculed, is not letting this sit on her shoulders, alone? Is it possible there’s some compelling reason his thoughts toward the LGBTQ community has changed, that may have nothing to do with anything political? I may have totally missed stuff in the announcement, as I’ve never been a “fan” of his, so maybe didn’t look closely enough to hear what some of you may have heard.
Im putting this out here in survivor land. Call it intuition, call it a bad chicken salad for lunch, call it whatever you want, but dont brush this off…
I went back and reread Harris’ comments multiple times on him no longer being a Christian. One thing that stuck out to me from thr first time i read it was the extra long apology to the LGBTQ community.
Why?
It would not surprise me to find out that someone VERY close to Harris will eventually be coming out as gay.
I can’t shake this no matter how many times ive tried to do so.
I hope im wrong, but i don’t think i will be on this one.
somewhere, I had EXACTLY the same thought. My first thought, actually.
So, part of my “job” as moderator here is to sort through not just the comments but also the email I get from people who have thoughts but don’t necessarily want to leave a comment. One of the most consistent themes has been that someone close to Josh Harris (or Josh himself) is going to come out as gay or pansexual or gender-fluid or something like that.
I don’t know anything about this, but I will say that it does make sense. Again and again, I’ve witnessed people throw out scriptural teachings about sexuality when someone they love decides to make their identity all about their sexual proclivities.
As to Stunned’s point, I’m pretty sure Josh and Shannon have deliberately not shared who initiated their separation. We don’t know who left whom, or if it was basically a mutual decision, or what. So there’s no point in feeling sorrier for one or the other or seeing one or the other as the wronged party.
I do think that from what the two of them have put out there (Josh’s proclamations on Instagram, Shannon’s music), Shannon seems like the sadder, more melancholy one.
But again, we really don’t know.
I think most of us here suspect that someone’s getting ready to come out.
Like I said.
The Judge of time will tell….
Sooner or later. It will come out.
A Kindred Spirit
Yes
Stunned,
Yes, we donot know if the separation is Josh’s choice…and yes to your additional points.
Whatever has brought them to this decision, there is obvious sorrow.
As Sopwith stated above “…we may be approaching a season of unfortunate casualties.”
I pray for their healing and restoration and redemption
The religious powers that be are now reporting that the social justice movement of #metoo and #churchtoo, is/are a religious plague ploy in a infamous strategy to bring women and lettered individuals into the pulpit. The ‘culpability’ of the 501c3 parishioner abusers has very little place in their sympathies ‘towards those abused’ in this present-day faith-based target-rich 501c3 environment: where-as “Come unto Me all ye who are heavy laden, and I shall give you rest”, must be given new meaning.
Hello, Shannon went from MD to Vancouver, where it rains all the time. That all by itself could be behind the melancholy in her voice – and that’s both LOL and not a joke.
Her music was put on line at least a year ago, so writing it and making it would have occurred more than a year ago. Although it might (or might not) be a reflection of any marital struggles, it’s not an expression of the recent announcements. Just a thought.
Larry has a video out with his personal appeal to Josh. https://youtu.be/lYLBrnRc59Q
OutThere,
With Shannon’s music being released a year ago, I’ve wondered, too, what might be behind all the melancholy and sadness, as Kris worded it.
With all she’s been through it could have been so many things. But whatever it is that has led her and Josh to the decisions they’ve made does not just happen over night. I feel certain Shannon was dealing with the pains of it even then.
Which brings me to another thought…Josh appears the opposite of Shannon’s music on his TEDx Talk…happy, blissful, and excited. His talk was published in November 2017 and her music was released in May 2018.
I think the two opposites are extremely telling and sad. What’s unfolding before us appears to be a tragedy.
And if this is all some cleverly thought out marketing scheme of Josh’s, where he comes out on top and still “provides well” for his ex-wife and kids, I’m just going to vomit.
…And I would just remind people who were deep into CLC/SGM and who left about how they felt, or about how they heard others felt, after leaving. I know people who, after years of being out, are still angry and depressed about what they feel like was a huge chunk of wasted life. On top of that, I imagine Shannon was actually abandoned by many who she thought were friends, and I imagine people she thought were “godly” were attacking her and her husband in vicious ways that most of us never experienced. It’s easy to think of reasons other than Josh for her to be sad.
I agree with Kris – there is no point in seeing one or the other as a wronged party. Most of us (me included) don’t know these people. It’s just as possible that they could both feel truly happy for the first time in their lives…
One last comment…Shannon has an exceptional voice, and it didn’t get that way overnight. BOTH she and Josh are performers, and the better someone is at performing, the better they are at mining and controlling emotions for the performance. It’s not a bad thing – but you can’t trust a public performance (that has been rehearsed over and over again) to be a reflection of what the performer is actually going through before and after the performance.
Respectfully, Larry Tomczak may have orphaned, for what ever reason, those of the PDI organization. The wolves, false shepherds then came from within and brought a false gospel. Great abuse has occurred as a result. Many people have suffered injury. Many of us think he needs to say he is sorry. Any passing stranger can offer advise. We, however, were not strangers.
I hadn’t paid attention to the Ted talk till now. I agree with Kindred (and others), in light of his recent announcement, it’s more interesting than it would be otherwise. You can hear many of the components of his post-Christian beliefs.
He rather self-consciously cites evolution as settled fact. He mentions how “evolution involved a whole lot of death, think of all the generations of death that happened as species evolved,” which then became a premise for one of his main points, which is that in order to evolve personally (and he expressly used the word “evolve,” when he could easily have said “grow”), things have to die. Right there, he revealed that he had already let go of a biblical doctrine of the origin of sin, since scripture clearly tells us that death came into the world through sin, and sin happened through Adam. According to the Bible, God did not use death to create.
He then specifically mentions how sometimes, certain relationships have to die in order for you to grow.
[NOTE: I’m mentioning this element of Josh’s Ted talk NOT because I’m in the mood to argue about Josh’s premise, but because it is something that already reveals a major shift in his worldview. It’s highly telling.I realize that some of you reading here buy into the evolutionary theory of origins. I do NOT want to debate this right now. There are plenty of places on the internet where you can discuss evolution. Comments disputing or attempting to discredit the Bible’s account of creation will be deleted.]
Josh’s big point was to say that being wrong–admitting you’re wrong–is actually a strength and not a weakness.
I’m bolding that because I think it is so amazing how this guy simply cannot stop. He cannot stop his need to influence others. It’s really amazing, if you think about it. How much self-importance does it take to craft a Ted talk around the idea that you were wrong about something, so therefore you now have something to teach others about being wrong, and how being wrong is actually good? Admitting you’re wrong is somehow better than having been right?
The worst thing about all of this is that someday, unless he repents of this foolishness, Josh Harris is going to be bowing before Jesus and proclaiming Him as Lord, whether he wants to or not. Then he’s going to know just how wrong he really was, standing up there and yet again attempting to sweep others along with him on his “journey.” (Where’s the eye-rolling emoji when you need it?)
Josh Harris posted more on his instagram account yesterday. Here it is…
“That old Bukowski poem has been ringing in my ears. ‘If you’re going to try, go all the way. Otherwise, don’t even start.’
Well, I’ve started. But there is a long road ahead. And maybe a cold park bench.
Two seemingly contradictory things are important for me right now:
First, to refuse to disappear. To live my life. Hold my head up. Look my Christian friends in the eyes and smile when I pass them on the sidewalk.
Even the seemingly insignificant act of posting a picture on Instagram is important for me. To say I’m here, I’m alive, I’m not ashamed.
Second, to sit in quietness and be silent. The inner journey that I’m on isn’t something that I need to broadcast. Which is why I’m not engaging in public arguments online. It’s why I’m not doing any interviews with the media. It’s why I’m not writing a book or starting a podcast. I want connection and relationships and dialogue with real people. But I need to avoid audiences and the pressure of becoming a spokesperson for anyone or any cause. That has gotten me into trouble in the past.
Your letters and stories have been such an encouragement. Your forgiveness has meant so much. I am reading what you’ve written even if I can’t always respond. To know you’ve walked this road or are just starting out has been a real gift. I am learning from you and I feel less alone.”
My brother wrote this to his kids and me, and I thought it was worth sharing. I asked him for permission and he said I could share it here.
——
On Josh Harris’ departure…
Dear Vickie, Andrew, Alisha, Caleb, Leah, and Jonathan,
I’m writing this to you because I feel a deep sense of responsibility to you. Not only am I father to you (most of you!), but I’ve been set apart by the church as a leader. Believe me, I know my shortcomings in both roles! But I won’t allow the understanding that I won’t do this perfectly to keep me from talking to you about the very serious announcement that Josh Harris recently made: He and his wife are divorcing, and more importantly, he is distancing himself from the Christian faith he once proclaimed.
Because this is all so recent, maybe you haven’t heard. Josh has been backpedaling from “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” for some time, but now deeper changes taking place in him are coming to light. Here are his own words from his Instagram account:
“I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.”
I realize that this is a story in progress and there is more to be written. I don’t want to judge Josh or make any assumptions about what it is that he actually believes at this point, or where he will eventually end up. But when a Christian leader that I have encouraged those under my care to read and listen to walks away from the gospel, I have an obligation to speak up about that. Warning: this will be long, because there is a lot to say, but it is important, so please take the time to read it.
This is different from the regular stream of Christian scandals. First, because Josh’s announcement doesn’t seem to be the result of being caught in some sin. He hasn’t been exposed as a hypocrite who said one thing, but lived a secret life of sin. Those stories are common and are easier to write off as religious charlatans who seek fame and recognition from Christian ministry, without an accompanying transformation of life.
Secondly, it is different because such stories of moral failure often come from streams of Christianity much different from our own. Most of those leaders represent churches we would not be comfortable identifying with or with whom we would have serious theological differences. But here is a pastor who is solidly in our theological camp. He is “ours”.
And finally, it is different because this is not just a contradiction of his faith—behavior that is not in line with what he has preached and written—it is an outright denial of that faith (just how much he is now denying or will deny is unclear, but he clearly says that he is “not a Christian.”)
This announcement hits me hard emotionally because Josh Harris’ outward expressions of his Christian faith in his writing and his ministry are so very much like mine. From what I have read in his books, his intellectual and emotional experience of Christian faith is almost like reading my own story. His “aha” moments of recognizing the truth of Christianity that he writes about in “Dug Down Deep” could have been my experiences! The specific doctrines that he presents as precious to him in his writing are doctrines that I also have held dear—specifically the centrality of Christ and the glory of God! What does it do to your faith when you see someone who could be you forsake what you consider to be the very foundation of your life?
I believe that God wants this to be a challenge to my faith—and to yours as well. I believe that one of God’s purposes in this is that we would all reflect on our faith in Christ. What is it based on? Is it real? I believe God wants us to ask, “Is Josh Harris headed in the right direction?” I believe that he wants us to consider whether what Josh is proposing is a right way to live one’s life.
Challenges to our faith are good, even if they aren’t easy. If our faith were never challenged, it would be shallow and superficial. But when a challenge comes along, it forces us to ask deep questions, to consider what is true and what isn’t. What do we believe? And why do we believe it?
As I said earlier, it is very likely that Josh Harris’ intellectual and emotional experience of what it means to believe in Jesus is much like what I (and probably you) have experienced. We experience intellectually that what the Bible teaches about Christ is true. This intellectual certainty we often identify as faith. Maybe we occasionally doubt, but if we continue to come back to the intellectual conclusion that the historic Christian faith is true, we consider that to be faith. It is very clear from Josh’s writing that he had that kind of faith!
Likewise, we experience emotionally a sense of trust in those doctrines of Christianity. We feel that they are true. Again, doubts may come, but if we are able to weather the doubts and keep coming back to the affirmation, “this is true”, we feel that we are believers.
But if Josh Harris believed in this way, and then walked away from it, what is to keep us as well from walking away? If that intellectual and emotional foundation was not solid enough for Josh, how can it be solid enough for me?
Another aspect of faith and belief that we often don’t think about is the community nature of faith. Would you believe the teachings of the Bible if you were the only one in the entire world who believed them? I realize that the question is too hypothetical to be ultimately useful because if you were the only one who believed them, they would be different than they are, since the Bible shows us that in Christ, God is making a New Creation with a new humanity. But reflect for a bit on the role that the testimony of others plays in your faith. What if today it is Josh Harris who walks away, and then tomorrow it is Mom and I? And then Gramma and Grampa? And then Nana and Grandpa? And then those teachers and friends who have been the strongest encouragement to believe the gospel? What if everyone turned their back on what you believe? Is my faith only a safe place in a comfortable group? If that is all it is, then you will find that what you believe is constantly changing based on what group you happen to be most immersed in.
Scripture is explicit that God designed the church as a community of faith to help us persevere and not fall away (Heb. 10.24-25), but if the sole foundation of our faith is only other people’s belief, that’s hardly sufficient to be eternally transforming. When your leaders start to forsake it, if that is all you have, then you will forsake it as well.
Intellectual, emotional and community bases for faith are inadequate in themselves. All of these Josh Harris had. But throughout your life, each of these will be tested. There will be times when you have questions with no answers—an intellectual challenge to your faith. There will be times when you are plagued with vague doubts like, “what if its all wrong?”—an emotional challenge to your faith. And there will be times like this one, when the community of believers (or the unbelieving world) in some way pulls you in a direction that is not true, that leads away from Christ—a community challenge to your faith.
It is in these moments that true faith is revealed, because true faith is deeper than just the intellectual, emotional, and community manifestations of it that are observable. Here is what the Bible teaches us about true faith and why I am saying that it is deeper than these things.
True faith is not a product of our intellect or any human emotional capacity to trust. It is a gift from God. Ephesians 2.8-9 say, “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” People argue over whether the verse means that it is the salvation that is a gift from God, or the faith. But I believe this verse is teaching that all of it is a gift from God. To be saved through faith is a gift that God gives us. We do not receive the gift of salvation from God because we have a faith that distinguishes us from others who don’t have faith. If we believe, it is because God has graciously given us a heart to trust him.
Hebrews 11.1 says that “faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” That assurance and that conviction is how the many heroes of faith listed in Hebrews 11 were able to go through what they did. It comes from spiritually seeing things that we in ourselves are incapable of seeing. Hebrews 11.10 says that Abraham was “looking forward” to the city… whose designer and builder is God.” and then in verse 13, referring to all the people mentioned in the chapter, it says, “These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar…”
This spiritual seeing, which is a gift from God, is the essence of true faith. Look right now at some object in the room where you are reading this. Are you able to convince yourself that the object doesn’t exist? No, because you can see it! It is there! In the same way, a person with true faith cannot walk away from Jesus any more than you can deny that object exists, because he sees spiritually.
I don’t mean to equate spiritual sight with physical sight. We are challenged to doubt spiritual things in a way that we aren’t challenged to doubt physical and material reality. But such challenges are God’s way of confirming that our faith is real. It is like reaching out and touching the object in the room. The challenge shows you that your faith is real. Some people lose a close loved one in a terrible accident and curse God. Others lose a close loved one and their faith and trust in God is deepened and made more solid.
Josh Harris’ departure from the faith is a challenge to the faith of believers who looked up to him and trusted him. In some ways, it is worse than a physical death. But true faith will not be shaken, but rather affirmed and strengthened. Hebrews 3.12-14 are the most relevant verses in the Bible that I can think of in this regard:
12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. 13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
The warning of verse 12 is real, and Josh’s actions confirm that! Verse 13 describes what I am trying to do with you right now. And verse 14 sums up what I’ve been saying about the nature of true faith. When we “have come to share in Christ” it results in a “confidence” that will remain “firm to the end.”
Let me change gears now and tell you why this has brought such sadness to my heart.
The very first thing that I read from the Bible after I heard about Josh’s announcement was from my regular devotional reading. Job 22:1-3 “Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said: “Can a man be profitable to God? Surely he who is wise is profitable to himself. Is it any pleasure to the Almighty if you are in the right, or is it gain to him if you make your ways blameless?”
We do not profit God or add to him in any way by believing him or by proclaiming the truth about him. Josh Harris with his public ministry and his books did nothing to make God more than what he already is. God has lost nothing with Josh’s departure. But Josh has lost. Forsaking his confidence in Christ is loss for himself. In the words of Hebrews 10.35, he has “thrown away his confidence, which has a great reward.” This is a great sadness to me. A professing brother has walked away from the gospel!
Another scripture that came to mind is when Jesus said, “Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!” (Matthew 18.7)
I’m saddened by the fact that Josh is not an island. He was part of a community, and he was prominent. His lack of faith will negatively impact others. It is a “stumbling block”. I’ve thought about how it might cause you guys to stumble, and that profoundly saddens me.
And finally, and most importantly, I am deeply saddened because what Josh has done is a very public slap in the face to the most beautiful and wonderful person who has ever lived—the One who gave up more than we can ever comprehend to bring us back from death to life. Jesus has been denied.
In another statement from Josh’s Instagram account that I didn’t quote, he apologizes to the LGBTQ+ community for the public stand he previously took on sexual identity. I also grieve at the self-righteous, unloving way many Christians treat the gay community, but here is what is so grievous; many professing Christians will be rejoicing more over this affirmation of gay people, than they will be grieving over Josh’s rejection of Christ. What does it say about the sinful human heart when the affirmation of a person’s self-declared sexual identity (which is confused!) is more valued than the affirmation of Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior of a fallen sinful world that doesn’t deserve a Lord and Savior like him?
The only human “identity” in the world today that is deserving of 100% affirmation is the identity of the only perfect human who has ever lived. The eternal Son of God who clothed himself with our identity so that our broken, sinful identities could be restored to what they were created to be. This is what the New Creation is all about—a restored human identity that flows from Jesus Christ and is given to all who are in him. The world spits on that identity and despises it, just as they did 2000 years ago. And how grievous that one of his own disciples has now also joined the world and said, “I never knew the man!” May Josh, like Peter did, find repentance and weep bitterly over that denial.
I close with this… (thank you for being patient through this lengthy letter). John 6.66-67
After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. So Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?”
This is my question to you, my dear family: Do you want to go away as well? My prayer today as I’ve written this to you is that your answer will be the same as Peter’s:
“Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”
Kris, your gift for apologetics and writing, combined with the depth of your understanding of scripture and discernment, along with your wit and that brilliant brain of yours, is a blessing to many here. Not to mention your big heart!
David, that letter…I have no words.
So beautifully written and heartfelt.
All I can say is, AMEN!
Please thank your brother for allowing you to share it with us.
Al Mohler speaks about Josh like he doesn’t know him, CLC and never spoke at. Ew Attitude.
https://albertmohler.com/2019/08/01/briefing-8-1-19
Sopwith, I think putting the blame on Larry for his departure is just wrong. He was forced out. Between his discipline and the shift to Reformed theology, there was no place in PDI for Larry. I think PDI suffered greatly, but how could he stay with CJ u responsive for years. I think there is probably more to the story, but at the surface, Larry appears to have done what he could be quietly bringing other leaders to confront CJ.
Jenn,
You’re right – it is interesting how Mohler speaks as though he’d never waded into the deep end of the New Attitude pool. As a member of CLC I saw him speak on more than one occasion.
However, I am glad I listened to his reporting before commenting on this topic further. I just hope that Larry’s video appeal is well received and that Josh Harris responds. If he does not, this spiritual tragedy will go from bad to worse in a hurry.
For now, I am praying for the Harris family an tuning out because I do not need the sadness this is sure to bring.
David, thankyou for sharing this very caring, clear letter.
May I repeat his closing scriptures in the NKJV- John 6:68-69
“Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
Also, we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ,
the Son of the Living God.”